India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

[another_armchair]

Have you ever thought IA maybe too reliant on HUMINT

HUMINT is the bedrock of CI across geographies and nations.

 

[another_armchair]

comms can't be tracked?

A call originating at dusk from a forest could be a shepherd calling his family that he'll be late.

HUMINT about presence of strangers with backpacks and weapons in the forest otoh is definite, actionable intelligence.

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[another_armchair]

Aside, the quick dismantling of TSD shows a corrupt civilian system won't allow the Army to push the technical surveillance envelope beyond their comfort levels.

 

[Tactical Doge]

Aside, the quick dismantling of TSD shows a corrupt civilian system won't allow the Army to push the technical surveillance envelope beyond their comfort levels.

relying on HUMINT alone is a problem IMHO, you just put in valuable military resources and lost three lives because some dude told you....... ?

there should be some way to corroborate the intel

 

[another_armchair]

relying on HUMINT alone is a problem IMHO, you just put in valuable military resources and lost three lives because some dude told you....... ?

there should be some way to corroborate the intel

The intel was correct - the action on that intel was amateur at best.

Don't blame the source alone.

We've seen US fall prey to similar tactics in Afghanistan.

We are veterans of HUMINT operations in Kashmir and North East.

Yes, it had to be corroborated.

If the chronology doing the rounds about the incident is indeed accurate, which CO in his right mind charges uphill with his deputy and a local police head in tow?

Some of the biggest successes including that of Burhan Wani were based on HUMINT only. We will never know the real truth behind this incident just as the Handwara fiasco was given a believable twist so the departed have an honorable adieu and nobody talks about the absolute fuck up that happened.

There was another incident when a Lt. Col of RR was killed while leading in ops. Forgot his name.

 

[JBH22]

comms can't be tracked?

When OGW will support these rats after they have infiltrated, you will need Humint.

 

[another_armchair]

Tral Operation: 27 Jan 2015 By Jan 2015, Col Rai had completed nearly one and half years as commanding officer of 42 RR, which was responsible for counter-insurgency operations in Tral sector in Pulwama district of J & K. Tral had been a hotbed of militancy as it provided suitable terrain for militants to operate. On 27 Jan 2015, the unit had received credible information about the presence of terrorists in the village under its area of operations control. After analyzing the situation a decision was taken by the security forces to launch a joint operation by the Army, CRPF, and the police.​

The suspected militants were hiding in a house which was soon surrounded by the security forces. On being challenged the militants started firing and a fierce gun battle ensued. At this point, reportedly, the father and brother of one of the terrorists informed the assault team that the ultras would surrender. Colonel Rai displayed good leadership and followed the Army doctrine of WHAM(Winning Hearts and Minds) and decided to give the militants an opportunity to surrender. The militants, however, took advantage of this act of compassion and started firing in order to escape. The forces soon cornered the militants after a while and gunned down the two militants. But during the heavy exchange of fire, Colonel M N Rai got severely injured and later succumbed to his injuries.​

Colonel M N Rai was martyred in the operation, but the exemplary courage and leadership skills displayed by Colonel Rai would always be remembered.
Colonel M N Rai is survived by his wife Priyanka, daughters Alka & Richa and son Aditya. At the funeral of Colonel M N Rai, his 11 years old daughter Alka made his regiment and the entire nation proud by bidding her father a farewell with the Gurkha regiment’s war cry, “Ayo Gorkhali” meaning ” The Gorkhas are here”.​

Source: Honourpoint​

​

What did we achieve with the above sacrifice over nailing goat shaggers?​

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Don't even need something like a UCAV, a DJI M30 class drone, pair it with some FPV kamikaze or bomber drones as hunter killer teams, as a much cheaper and safer solution.

I am sure someone in the army would have already thought and proposed something on similar lines but, don't think the high command or def bureaucracy even cares even though when the tech is commercially available.

At this rate its just a matter of time the terrorists start using FPV drones in attack roles on easy less value targets just for the kills and we are going to be caught unprepared as always sadly. They already use drones for logistics and possibly surveillance.

UAV launched UL-PGM is already on order and the Army already has numerous types of FPV drones with underslung revolver grenade launchers.
Don't know what is stopping them from using those in actual ops

 

[Jimih]

Where are those DJI drones ? Anyway, it's pretty clear Army Brass doesn't care much for soldiers' life..

It's been discouraged to employ DJI drones in Ops.

 

[stat231]

It's been discouraged to employ DJI drones in Ops.

Then why did they buy them

 

[Jimih]

Just as I mentioned in my previous post. The rambo mentality of IA should be done away with. What's with this leading from the front bullshit and a Colonel barraging into an ambush with his men? A Colonel is too precious to be lost in such regular COIN ops. What the nation is losing is a man with decade plus experience. The company/platoon/squad commander is sufficient to lead from the front in regular coin ops like these.

Sadly 'Encounter based Promotions' is a reality in the valley.

Saying this with heavy heart.

 

[another_armchair]

UAV launched UL-PGM is already on order and the Army already has numerous types of FPV drones with underslung revolver grenade launchers.
Don't know what is stopping them from using those in actual ops

Wonder what happened to these.

Farming Drone Goes From Plowshares To Grenade Launcher

For dronemaker VINVELI, the purpose of its quadcopters shifted with the market and with its change in location. Which is how a drone launched as a farmer’s helper in Texas is now in the hands of special forces in India.

www.forbes.com

A quadcopter is a tool, a drone just waiting for humans to give it purpose. For dronemaker VINVELI, the purpose of its quadcopters shifted with the market and with its change in location. Which is how a drone launched as a farmer’s helper is now in the hands of special forces in India.

Launched in Texas, VINVELI emerged from a startup accelerator in Iowa with a mission to sell drones and drone services to agricultural and industrial users. Now based in India, the company offers drones that can fire grenades to law enforcement and military customers.

Dubbed “Vero,” the quadcopter can be outfitted with a launcher firing 38mm or 40mm grenades. Paired with the drone’s 30-40 minute flight time while armed, Vero can give more reach and direction to an attack beyond conventional trajectories. It’s easy to see how the same design that facilitated industrial inspections can be turned into a tool of urban warfare.

PROMOTED

“Here’s an example scenario with the 38mm launcher,” describes VINVELI Group director Gokul Anandayuvaraj. “Terrorists holding hostages at 30th floor of a hotel room in an urban environment, the drone can be used to fire one wood piercing round into the window to break it and a second smoke or stun grenade to create a distraction so the counter terror forces can go in and safety intervene and rescue.”

The Vero drone, with a 5-foot diameter, can fly for up to 50 minutes without any special payload. A human operator can direct it using electro-optical or infrared cameras. The signals can be encrypted, to add some guaranteed that only the right user is seeing the feed.

Vero can also navigate by GPS waypoints, and it features a modular payload attachment tool, allowing human operators to quickly change what extra tools the quadcopter needs for a given mission.

As an industrial drone, Vero was built for tasks ranging from wind turbine blade inspections, to solar panel inspection, to looking at everything from chimneys to oil and gas pipelines. It’s human portable, designed for one person to be able to pack it up, unpack it, and have it flying in just a few minutes.

In warfare with difficult terrain, Anandayuvaraj envisions the drone as allowing soldiers to fire explosives into cover, flushing enemies out of hiding and maybe even killing them in the process. When not involved in actively firing explosives at humans, the Vero can swap out the grenade launcher for other payloads.

“Jungle warfare commandos usually stay put for days in forests under adverse conditions for operations,” says Anandayuvaraj. “The drone can be sent in with supplies such as ammunition, food, critical medicines such as in case of a snake bite, for example that can be lifesaving.”

And, in a pinch, the Vero can simply just drop an explosive, without needing to use a launcher.

“We had worked with special forces from the Ministry of Home Affairs, India to understand the needs of commandos to build a solution,” says Anandayuvaraj. Since 2016, Vero drones have been in use with the National Security Guard, a military counter-terror unit run through Home Affairs.

It is now also being explored for use with more conventional military units, under the Ministry of Defence.

It is unlikely that any given grenade drone can end the use of cover, forever. But the greater proliferation of grenade-launching drones means people will need to adapt to the very real possibility that a loud buzzing doesn’t just mean they’re discovered, it means that they’re in immediate peril.

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[Jimih]

Then why did they buy them

No other option.

 

[IndianSpiderman]

In 1970s, IG used AF against Mizos, crushed a hardcore insurgency within years

And these BJcucks criticize herfor it

Modi reminds Congress of Indira's aerial bombing of Mizoram - Times of India

Times of India brings the Latest & Top Breaking News on Politics and Current Affairs in India & around the World, Cricket, Sports, Business, Bollywood News and Entertainment, Science, Technology, Health & Fitness news & opinions from leading columnists.

m.timesofindia.com

IG was the one under whose watch the Mizo insurgency germinated and bloomed. She was the one who mollycoddled the Mizos with special status and even their own state, the result of which still haunts India. And when her dumb scheme backfired, she was forced to bomb her own country. But, yeah, keep repeating the same BS like a psyccophant even after it's busted multiple times.

 

[Jimih]

IG was the one under whose watch the Mizo insurgency germinated and bloomed. She was the one who mollycoddled the Mizos with special status and even their own state, the result of which still haunts India. And when her dumb scheme backfired, she was forced to bomb her own country. But, yeah, keep repeating the same BS like a psyccophant even after it's busted multiple times.

Bhindiwala was too groomed by her.

 

[mokoman]

The intel was correct - the action on that intel was amateur at best.

Don't blame the source alone.

We've seen US fall prey to similar tactics in Afghanistan.

We are veterans of HUMINT operations in Kashmir and North East.

Yes, it had to be corroborated.

If the chronology doing the rounds about the incident is indeed accurate, which CO in his right mind charges uphill with his deputy and a local police head in tow?

Some of the biggest successes including that of Burhan Wani were based on HUMINT only. We will never know the real truth behind this incident just as the Handwara fiasco was given a believable twist so the departed have an honorable adieu and nobody talks about the absolute fuck up that happened.

There was another incident when a Lt. Col of RR was killed while leading in ops. Forgot his name.

i think there was no firefight or charging . some source gave them location of a hideout which was true . all 3 went to location for usual investigation / photo-op .

militants were waiting nearby and gunned them down .

as usual TRF wont release vids/pictures immediately , will wait some days/weeks for situation to cool then start propaganda.

 

[IndianSpiderman]

LOL BJcucks use such logic, it’s not even funny.

you want me to bring a list of fidayeen attacks in modi’s time?

Beginning with a personal attack. What a classy move. If it's a slanging match you want, I'm willing to give you one. Oe else, stick to the topic.

Now. Let's have it. Empirical data on the number of insurgency related deaths before IG'S time vs those during her PMship.

 

[Kumaoni]

Aside, the quick dismantling of TSD shows a corrupt civilian system won't allow the Army to push the technical surveillance envelope beyond their comfort levels.

No no civilians system is perfect

can do no wrong