India-China Relations

no smoking

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I'm tired of these comments. There is a no prospect of war between these two nations. Let me repeat, no war is going to happen unless goveronments are out of their mind. They are not stupid. There are much bigger bialteral interest than war we can gain by living peacefully.
We know it, they know it.

The problem is: they so desperately want to return the "favor" of 1962. So, they can not help themselves imaging a war between two countries, in which they will win even before the starting. It's good for their health:mornin:
 

tarunraju

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We know it, they know it.

The problem is: they so desperately want to return the "favor" of 1962. So, they can not help themselves imaging a war between two countries, in which they will win even before the starting. It's good for their health:mornin:
Wake up. You're the one pissing about on our rocks. Who's desperate :p
 

Pintu

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China won't wage war on India' - Guwahati - City - NEWS - The Times of India

China won't wage war on India'
TNN 20 September 2009, 11:03pm IST

ITANAGAR: Despite reports of frequent border incursions, Arunachal Pradesh chief minister Dorjee Khandu believes that China will never a wage a war on India.

"China can't afford to go for a war. But the fact remains that its sole aim is to weaken India on all fronts. China wants to prove that it's an economic superpower in the region," said Khandu, who hails from Tawang, an area of contention between India and China.

China's policy was to force India to increase its defence expenditure at the cost of its economy, he added. "The idea is: The more the expenditure on defence, the less the money spent on development. In short they are bent on weakening India through this game of psychological warfare," Khandu told reporters here on Sunday morning.

He said India should take up the challenge on the economic front. "At the moment, we should give top priority to rapid economic and infrastructure development in border areas," he added.

Denying BJP's claims that the UPA government has shown a "slow response" to China's challenge, the chief minister of the frontier state said development on the Indian side of the border is still unmentionable."While China has developed two-lane roads right up to the McMahon Line, we do not even have porter tracks in most parts along the border. In the absence of motorable roads, troops movement may be hindered during an emergency," he said.

The chief minister said the Centre should induct more locals into the army to strengthen intelligence network in the border areas.

On the Dalai Lama's scheduled November visit to the state, he said, "China has no right to interfere or raise questions on his visit. "The spiritual leader can move freely, anywhere in India. China has no business or right to object. The Centre has given him permission to visit Tawang. The matter ends there," Khandu said.
 

tarunraju

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"The idea is: The more the expenditure on defence, the less the money spent on development. In short they are bent on weakening India through this game of psychological warfare,"
I disagree with him. North East Defense is what is fueling development of roads, railways and bridges in that region. Besides China knows that if it pointlessly induces rapid militarization in its neighbourhood, it only ends up creating a monster that will bite its arse later down the line.
 

Sridhar

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The China-India dynamic: Worried dragon; outraged elephant




(Photos: courtesy Ajai Shukla)
The village of Mago, near the Line of Actual Control between India and China. Reaching Mago took me two days of walking from the nearest road head)
andard, 22nd Sept 09

The recent focus on the Line of Actual Control (LAC) between India and China has shed little light on what is actually going on there, although something certainly is. Clearly, though, little has changed since 1962 in the way we react as a people to any perceived threat: with neither information, analysis, nor military resources, we clamour for action, stern and immediate!


Neither the fulminating television newscasters, nor the millions who tune in to watch them, nor the thousands who send in outraged SMSs, letters and emails, have asked an important question: is Beijing raising the temperature on the LAC, howsoever slightly, because it worries about something that India is doing? Does our obsessive insecurity prevent us from seeing that China might have insecurities of its own? What might those concerns be?


If our government has thought over the matter, it is not telling. Pooh-poohing suggestions of heightened tension on the border, India’s foreign minister has inelegantly described the LAC as, “one of the most peaceful boundaries that we have had” (sic). New Delhi is deflecting attention from the border and nobody is wondering why.


What is generating those wisps of smoke, admittedly faint, emanating from the dragon’s nostrils?


To put things in context, it must be remembered that the 16 years since the “Peace and Tranquillity Agreement” of 1993 have not been entirely tranquil. Patrols from both sides have routinely muscled through to what they respectively claim as the LAC. This, however, evokes only pro forma complaints during border meetings. In places like the disputed “Finger Area” in Sikkim, Chinese patrols have actually pointed (but not fired) weapons at Indian jawans. Indian patrols, bound by tighter guidelines, wave banners at the Chinese on which requests to vacate Indian territory are emblazoned in Chinese characters. The restraints irritate our hot-blooded junior officers, but that’s life on the LAC.


Today Chinese patrols are bullying Indian graziers, and sending Tibetan graziers into pastures that they have ignored for 15 years. But it is hardly time to press panic buttons, or declare a media war on China,


Assuming that the world’s China watchers are right, and that Beijing’s economic stakes in the rubric of “The Peaceful Rise of China” holds back its historical expansionism, the LAC foot stamping can hardly be a precursor to hostilities with India. But the shift in China’s behaviour must certainly be examined.


Recent years have seen two major changes along the LAC. The first, on the Tibetan side, is China’s development drive to transform local economies. Most Tibet-watchers believe that China’s frenetic infrastructure building is aimed primarily at winning over recalcitrant Tibetans; a secondary aim is to be able to move troops around Tibet swiftly to quash outbreaks of rebellion; and a side benefit is the ability to move forces quickly to defend Chinese territory.


But, viewed from the Indian side, China’s infrastructure drive is a serious threat, each road and railway line a dagger thrust forward into India’s heart. China’s five highways running to the border, soon to be supplemented with railway lines, allows the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to build up forces quickly at a chosen point on the LAC to overwhelm local Indian posts well before reinforcements can be brought in along India’s creaky border roads.


India’s failure to build matching infrastructure has two causes: the difficult terrain on the Indian side, and the government’s slothfulness in planning and executing projects. But New Delhi makes up by its willingness to deploy an increasing number of jawans on the Himalayan watershed. India is raising two more divisions in the northeast, some 40,000 jawans more along the LAC, a provocative act in China’s eyes. Originally planned as a low-key reinforcement, the cat was let out of the bag by Arunachal Pradesh governor, General JJ Singh, who announced to the people of his state that India was raising two new divisions to protect them from the Chinese.


India’s force build-up is the second big change on the LAC. In the lexicon of geo-strategy, Beijing alleges that New Delhi is unilaterally altering the status quo in a disputed border region. “We’re only building roads for the benefit of our border people”, the Chinese strategists argue, “but India is building up forces”.


A third change is India’s new boldness in allowing the Dalai Lama to go ahead with a visit this November to the monastery town of Tawang. China worries that India’s influence over the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan Government-in-Exile, and the ability to wield the symbols of Buddhism, give New Delhi potent leverage in Tibet. For decades, New Delhi has danced to Beijing’s tune, restraining the Dalai Lama, cracking down on Tibetan protests, and even deploying hordes of police and paramilitary forces to ensure that the Beijing Olympic torch relay through Delhi is not marred by protests.


It is hard to see how New Delhi can stop the Dalai Lama’s visit to Tawang, without apparently kowtowing to Beijing. But Beijing’s dominance is such that it views the visit as a “provocation”.


With the Beijing-New Delhi relationship changing, China is struggling to accept the new reality. Complicating Beijing’s strategic calculus further is the realisation that pushing India beyond a point could push it overtly into Washington’s orbit.


Back on the LAC, China is signalling displeasure over all these issues. But the mildness of the signals reflects the constraints in China’s options. At this point, there is little more that the Dragon can do.

Broadsword: The China-India dynamic: Worried dragon; outraged elephant
 

StealthSniper

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If India can continue to prosper and grow it's economy for the next 3 to 5 years then India will be in a good or better position to better defend itself and get better prepared for any misadventure. China wants to become a Asian giant and it doesn't help that India is challenging that positon. I don't think China will attack India in the near future but you can see why they would want to.
 

no smoking

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If India can continue to prosper and grow it's economy for the next 3 to 5 years then India will be in a good or better position to better defend itself and get better prepared for any misadventure. China wants to become a Asian giant and it doesn't help that India is challenging that positon. I don't think China will attack India in the near future but you can see why they would want to.
Please tell me why?

As a chinese, I realy don't see any reason to attack india?

If you say because india's potential threat to china's potential dominance in asea, I may reply: india wants to attack china because china's potential threat to india's dominance in south asea.

So far what i read in this forum regarding sino-india relationship is all from indian's words: some indian generals say sth or some indian officer say sth. What about chinese word? what did chinese general say? what did chinese officer say? Frankly, i rarely see any rational analysis from india.
 

ppgj

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Please tell me why?

As a chinese, I realy don't see any reason to attack india?

If you say because india's potential threat to china's potential dominance in asea, I may reply: india wants to attack china because china's potential threat to india's dominance in south asea.
as an individual what you say is appreciated. both india and china are growing and it is better for both of them to keep it like that. but look around, how china is tightening itself around india. with the taste of 1962 still fresh no indian can keep his guard down and india is already pretty late in waking up. it may be misconception on both sides about each other but better to be prepared. i am sure you agree.
 

arya

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you dont want to see the truth

I'm tired of these comments. There is a no prospect of war between these two nations. Let me repeat, no war is going to happen unless goveronments are out of their mind. They are not stupid. There are much bigger bialteral interest than war we can gain by living peacefully.
hi

sir i can understand your feeling and i respect you feeling i know war is not soltuion of any problem but you accept or no but the war will be happen do you don't think we are going same condition as usa and soviet Russia was before cold war

i just want one thing my nation should be strong and happy i like to see development in my country but thats only come when our force will be strong

i want to ask you a question in daily life you must doo exercise or yoga or some jim -shim why so that your body will be fit and fine same as in case of country we must have to make our force more advcnae and powerfull



India don't want war but what you will do if some one try to down your size

jai hind
 

roma

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It's a question of having "Called Wolf " in 62, memories remain, history can repeat

We know it, they know it.:
china has in a sense called wolf too many times, made agreements then gone back on them . We can list these flip flops, and its quite a pile since 1962 . he lesson ? simple any agreement made with china aint worth the paper its writen on . So how do we conduct business wih them ? according to what they DO ,, NOT what they say. So the border incursions . or transgressions as the gov of india insists are what we should watch and the media is not too wrong in pointing them out ! it is wrong to panic about them but who's panicking . THE media is correct to report them because responsible friends dont do such things.
China has lost a lot of their credit with india and the world which is watching.From now on , no more credit to china , business should be done , whether military business or commercial , it should be done on a strictly "CASH ONLY" basis .
 

StealthSniper

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Please tell me why?

As a chinese, I realy don't see any reason to attack india?

If you say because india's potential threat to china's potential dominance in asea, I may reply: india wants to attack china because china's potential threat to india's dominance in south asea.

So far what i read in this forum regarding sino-india relationship is all from indian's words: some indian generals say sth or some indian officer say sth. What about chinese word? what did chinese general say? what did chinese officer say? Frankly, i rarely see any rational analysis from india.

If you think China would love to see India do good and have a powerful Army, Navy or Airforce and let them have a say in the security council then you are wrong. China even at first said no to letting India get the nuclear agreement deal done with USA.


If you look at the facts China is being way more aggressive then India. Here are some examples:

1. Friends with our enemies and aggressive posture with chinese workers making a rail link in no mans land in between Pakistan and India border

2. Chinese incursions and trespassing across Indian land to threaten that the land is not ours

3. Trying to setup bases in India's backyard to try to "surround" and "contain" India

4. Giving intel and information to Pakistan about India's strategy and intentions

5. Threatening to cut off India's supply of water from Tibet


And I can continue on. In response India is now fed up and is only doing the bare minimum in defence to not upset China. Although it has every right to counter Chinese aggression and will if needed.
 

natarajan

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To fortify Arunachal, military takes over 5 air bases

India has begun fortifying its borders in Arunachal Pradesh against China. As the first step, five air bases in the state have been taken over by the military.

On the night of September 18, the Pasighat, Tuting, Vijaynagar, Walong and Mechuka bases close to the China border were passed from the Airports Authority of India to the defence ministry.

Headlines Today has learnt that the five bases were transferred to the military authorities after a quick clearance from the Prime Minister's Office.

The bases were initially only to be upgraded by the defence ministry, but now it has been given full control.

Headlines Today has learnt that under military control, the five bases will be used by the air force and the army to increase surveillance across crucial stretches of the border with China.

The defence ministry has already drawn up a fresh airborne surveillance plan for the eastern sector. The plan will coincide with the visit of the Dalai Lama to Tawang in Arunachal.

After activating some air bases in Ladakh, the fortification of Arunachal Pradesh is being seen as a message to China that not only was the state a part of India, it was also being actively guarded.

More defence measures were in the pipeline in the state. These included the setting up of air force headquarters in the state and an airstrip for spy Drones at Anini.

source
 

arya

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hi

guys our air chief is not media reporter but our Govt don't like to tell the truth we are behind from china and we have to increase our numbers

media is doing good jobs these leader just care for vote they don't care for nation or public

have u listen what amar singh (samj wadi party) leader is saying that he don't have trust on indian doctor and our medical treatment thats why he was out side

let keep pressure on these leader and only media can do

jai hind
 

RPK

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Meet to discuss Chinese incursions called off- Hindustan Times

The Indian government put off a high-level meeting of officials that was to be held in New Delhi on Thursday to discuss alleged Chinese border intrusions.

The meeting was expected to be chaired by National Security Adviser M K Narayanan. Cabinet Secretary K M Chandrasekhar, Defence Secretary Pradeep Kumar, Home Secretary G K Pillai and Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao were to attend.

No reason was given for its postponement. But reliable sources said this followed differences between the external affairs ministry and the Prime Minister's Office on the one hand and the defence ministry on the other.

The external affairs ministry has publicly tried to downplay the reported incursions, saying they are routine incidents that occur due to variations in perception about the Line of Actual Control (LAC), which de facto marks the Sino-Indian frontier.

External Affairs Minister S M Krishna has cautioned against creating 'excessive alarm' over the reported developments and stressed that India's border with China had been 'most peaceful'.

The defence ministry has pitched for a more assertive approach vis-a-vis the alleged incursions, which Beijing has denied.

The defence ministry wants curbs on army patrolling of the border lifted and a more pro-active approach towards building border infrastructure that lags far behind China's.

Currently, there are patrolling restrictions in certain 'sensitive areas' of LAC to avoid possible clashes with Chinese troops.

AIADMK chief Jayalalitha on Thursday accused the Congress-led government of lethargy in dealing with the Chinese incursions and ceasefire violations by Pakistan.

She described reports about Chinese intrusions in certain places and firing by the Pakistani Army as 'alarming' and contended that India gave these countries a clean chit even before they went into a denial mode.

"What we want is a government with steel in its spine, not jelly. Otherwise, India would become a punching bag, hit around by just about anyone who takes a fancy to do so," she said in a statement.

India and China have held 13 rounds of talks to resolve the border row that led to a war in 1962. But this has led to little progress, with both sides reiterating their stated positions.
 

natarajan

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reported by our indian media that iaf is placing mountain radars along loc and lac with china and also 2 squadrons of su 30mki :2guns:to be deployed in western front of india along pakistan-punjab border but dont know why it was published in media
is this news are to be confidential?
 

Rajan

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hi

guys our air chief is not media reporter but our Govt don't like to tell the truth we are behind from china and we have to increase our numbers

media is doing good jobs these leader just care for vote they don't care for nation or public

have u listen what amar singh (samj wadi party) leader is saying that he don't have trust on indian doctor and our medical treatment thats why he was out side

let keep pressure on these leader and only media can do

jai hind
In Russia, PRC and pakistan they military controls the govts but in India they don't, so they need new tactics to get sufficient funds. And this new one is very good. Indian armed forces maturing everyday.
 

IBRIS

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IAF beefs up radars along Chinese border

The Indian Air Force is strengthening its air defence in Ladakh along the Line of Actual Control with China by putting in place a series of special mountain and light-weight radars.

Western Air Command chief Air Marshal N A K Browne told media-persons in New Delhi [ Images ] on Friday that different types of radars would be put in place along the 667-km LAC with China, the air defence of which is the WAC's responsibility. "The Air Force is keenly examining the option of special type of radars, which we call the mountain radars and we are also looking at Low Level Light Weight Radars (LLLWR). So there is a definite plan," Browne said to a question on the future air defence systems along the LAC.

The IAF's move comes close on the heels of reports of recent incursions by Chinese military helicopters into Indian airspace. Browne said the IAF would put in place these radars in the next four to five years to make the air defence system along the LAC robust. "When I talk of operational infrastructure to be improved in the northern sector, the mountainous terrain is very tricky. Because you have huge peaks and normal conventional systems are very difficult to maintain there," he said.

Browne said the IAF had already given contracts for 19 of LLLWRs and that the WAC itself had some of these. "More are in the pipeline. They are coming starting from next year itself," he added.

Browne said the IAF also had the option of an indigenously developed LLLWR. At present, the IAF has placed along the LAC two Rohini radars developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation and manufactured by Bharat Electronics [ Get Quote ] Limited."One more Rohini radar is to be inducted next year and placed along the LAC," he said. "These, I think, will take care of detection of any threats that come from across the LAC," he added.

Browne parried queries on the IAF's response to Chinese helicopters violating Indian airspace in Ladakh, but he said India needed to keep talking to all its neighbours and at the same time maintain highest levels of military preparedness.

"We do need to talk to everybody...every one of our neighbours and at the same time keep our gun powers dry. We should maintain our preparedness at the highest levels," he said.

The WAC chief also admitted that the IAF was fully aware of what was going on along the LAC, but reiterated that there were issues such as differing perceptions of the LAC on both sides. On the recent remarks of IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik that India's Air Force fleet was just one-third of China's, he said the IAF was extremely well-balanced on all fronts such as numbers, technology, modern platforms and equipment.

"It is not just a question of numbers, there are other issues such as technology and capability too," he said, dismissing the Chinese fleet strength as a threat. Browne noted that the IAF had in the last year-and-a-half activated new Advanced Landing Grounds (ALG) in Ladakh along the LAC at Daulat Beig Oldi, Fukche and at Nyoma as recently as a week ago.

"As of now, only these three ALGs will be operated. We do not have intention to activate any new ALGs in the near future," he added. Asked if the Chinese military activity across the LAC facing Ladakh had increased in recent times, the WAC chief said it was routine and that they are doing their activity during summer.

"It is their side of the LAC. They have full freedom, just as we have, to operate in their area," he added. On some of the future plans of the WAC, Browne said the IAF would base two Su-30MKI squadrons in Punjab [ Images ] by 2011, two units of Mi-171V medium lift helicopters too would be inducted in Rajasthan and in Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ], apart from operating indigenous Shakti-engine-fitted Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopters and 10 HAL-engine-fitted Cheetal helicopters in high altitude areas of Jammu and Kashmir, including Siachen. He said the Light Utility Helicopters, for which IAF had recently issued tenders, too, would be inducted in Siachen in the future.

These apart, the IAF would also improve its air defence units along all over Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir, he added. "All these are in tune with our focus to improve all- round offensive and air defence capability, operational infrastructure, and modernisation plans," Browne said.
IAF beefs up radars along Chinese border: Rediff.com news
 

no smoking

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If you think China would love to see India do good and have a powerful Army, Navy or Airforce and let them have a say in the security council then you are wrong. China even at first said no to letting India get the nuclear agreement deal done with USA.


If you look at the facts China is being way more aggressive then India. Here are some examples:

1. Friends with our enemies and aggressive posture with chinese workers making a rail link in no mans land in between Pakistan and India border

2. Chinese incursions and trespassing across Indian land to threaten that the land is not ours

3. Trying to setup bases in India's backyard to try to "surround" and "contain" India

4. Giving intel and information to Pakistan about India's strategy and intentions

5. Threatening to cut off India's supply of water from Tibet


And I can continue on. In response India is now fed up and is only doing the bare minimum in defence to not upset China. Although it has every right to counter Chinese aggression and will if needed.
1. US is also friend of Pak and providing financial aid to Pak, why don't you have problem with that?

2. As colonal said both countries are doing same thing. The difference is india media only reports chinese pissing while china media only reports india's pissing.

3. Since when the other south asean countris became india's backyard? Is there any international treat to support that?

4. Since we still have some land problem, I don't see this level of coorpration can prove anything. And I have no doubt india has this kind of coorpration with USSR during cold war.

5. Did any chinese officer publicly claims that we are gonna cut india's water supply? and what about Pak? I don't see how to cut water without hurting Pak. Since we are allies, we cannot do that, can we?
 

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