India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[ARVION]

Last I checked they refused to send their forces to fight for the Arabs against Houthis in Yemen. Arabs got mad but that's it.

But Saudi's made move by investing more in India and deeping realtion's with india's

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

and who is that lawmaker?

of the US Govt.

 

[ganesh177]

I think USA needs to grow some balls and sanction china full fledged.

China reiterates firm support for Iran nuclear deal

China reiterates firm support for Iran nuclear deal

China reiterated its firm support for the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), calling on all parties to strengthen dialogue and consultation within the framework, Spokesperson for Chinese Foreign Ministry Hua Chunying said on Tuesday.

news.cgtn.com

 

[Lancer]

https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-07-13/china-denies-funerals-for-soldiers-killed-in-india-skirmish-source

 

[ARVION]

https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-07-13/china-denies-funerals-for-soldiers-killed-in-india-skirmish-source

Still in denial mode's.

 

[garg_bharat]

href="https://t.co/Dlc15UYBpl">pic.twitter.com/Dlc15UYBpl</a></p>&mdash; d-atis (@detresfa_) <a href=""

JSTARS means some military action is impending.

 

[garg_bharat]

Still in denial mode's.

Communists lie through their teeth. Communists have no morals and no value system. Calling them humans is degrading humans. They are basically robots which look like humans.

 

[nick_indian]

But Saudi's made move by investing more in India and deeping realtion's with india's

Can they provide us what Iran was ? Route to trade with Central Asia, encirclement of Pakistan, access to Balochistan, influence in Afghanistan ?

Why couldn't we hold an alliance with both Arabs and Iranians. We needed Iran. Let's just admit it, a foreign policy failure is a failure. There is no other way to see it. I still feel there is time if this Government acts fast and makes serious overtures to Iran. But I don't think Modi is interested.

 

[ARVION]

Can they provide us what Iran was ? Route to trade with Central Asia, encirclement of Pakistan, access to Balochistan, influence in Afghanistan ?

Why couldn't we hold an alliance with both Arabs and Iranians. We needed Iran. Let's just admit it, a foreign policy failure is a failure. There is no other way to see it. I still feel there is time if this Government acts fast and makes serious overtures to Iran. But I don't think Modi is interested.

Well we can develop economic relationships with both, but we need Chabara port it cant be lost like that, something need to be done to back track it, but also need to increase our sphere in other countries like Kenya, Tanzania's, Oman is an important partner for both strategic co operatione's where we could potentially, base our Jet's, and Vessels to forward our influence in Gulf, east Africa, and Eastern IOR region's.

 

[Mikel]

UK has finally officially done it

UK government has decided to stop #Huawei equipment being used in 5G

 

[Blue Water Navy]

This should be a wide spread phenomenon now.




And also this from UK. Says China will retaliate. Many Brits will be scared.

 

[ForigenSanghi]

Can they provide us what Iran was ? Route to trade with Central Asia, encirclement of Pakistan, access to Balochistan, influence in Afghanistan ?

Why couldn't we hold an alliance with both Arabs and Iranians. We needed Iran. Let's just admit it, a foreign policy failure is a failure. There is no other way to see it. I still feel there is time if this Government acts fast and makes serious overtures to Iran. But I don't think Modi is interested.

LOL trade route to what? Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Poorest countries on the planet. What purpose does that serve.

India has unnecessarily exaggerated both the importance of iran and the amount of help they were offering. They have provided zero help in Baluchistan and Iranian agencies also played a part in the kidnapping of Kulbhushan from chabahar. What ever little hanky panky india did in Baluchistan before Modi was without the help of iran. Kidnapping of Kulbhushan was pretty much a signal from iran to stop it and it all stopped right then.

India should have picked the side of US/Israel way back when iran fecked india over in the farzad gas field.
If India had chosen wisely back then, the Americans would have democratised the mullas by 2016 or 2017.

This is what India should do now.
- Buy oil from only 3 countries - Saudi, UAE and America.
- Provide all possible support to Saudi / UAE in Yemen (although that war is lost but at least India can prevent the formation of an irani/chinese base in Yemen.
- Sign up for complete US sanctions on iran including medicines and food grain. (a little cruel but hey...)

Obviously all this can now be done after the US election because if biden wins, he will sell off America to the chinese and qataris anyway.

 

[ARVION]

Why the Spriggean's Missile's would be the real Impactor's in the Ladakh's.

The Russia's Special Operation Forces has were grateful for the Kornet, which is a mobile anti-tank guided missile. As a result of miscommunication with the Syrian Army, 16 commandos from a Russian Special Operation Forces unit were left facing more than 300 Al-Nusra Front mercenaries in the Aleppo Province in a confrontation in April 2017. Spetsnaz units are in Syria for on-the-ground intelligence operations to help the Russian Aerospace Forces and the Syrian Army target the facilities of militants. In a fight that lasted two days, members of the unit managed to destroy a suicide-bomber vehicle, two infantry fighting vehicles, one tank and countless number of militants. No Spetsnaz fighters were wounded . The commandos were grateful for the Kornet anti-tank guided missile.

Pocket artillery

The Kornet anti-tank guided missile was codenamed Spriggan by NATO. Spriggans are a type of small Scottish rock goblins that have the ability to inflate themselves to giant size.
While the exact logic behind this naming is a matter of guesswork, the name provides a clue about the Kornet's most important technical characteristics and why this weapon is so favored by the Spetsnaz.

The Kornet was designed in the 1990s as an anti-tank guided missile, and tanks are still its main target. However, the Kornet can even be used against air targets like helicopters, which makes it a multipurpose missile. The Kornet launcher and missiles packages weigh 30 kilograms each and can be easily managed by two people. In the Kornet could be safely transported even by animal's in mountainous regions. The missiles could be dropped on the ground and did not need special storage conditions. The Kornet can be deployed within one minute and is able “to penetrate more than a meter of steel armor, including reactive armor.” This means, that all main battle tanks including the M1A2 Abrams, AMX-56 Leclerc, Challenger 2, Leopard 2A6 and Merkava Mk3 are easy targets as none of them have such heavy armor.
On top of this, the laser guidance and infrared sight used by the Kornet makes it all-weather and anti-jamming. The launch of a Kornet is difficult to spot and it can hit targets on a range between 3 kilometers at night and 5 kilometers .

Kornet was used during the Israel-Lebanon War in 2006, in which, according to Israel, 46 Merkava tanks were hit in total. Hezbollah sources said that Israel lost 164 Merkavas.
The alleged use by Hezbollah of the Kornets that Russia supplied Syria with, led to a diplomatic scandal with Israeli diplomats flying to Moscow to show proof of such use.
Moscow did not confirm the transfer, but apparently put more control on how countries that get Russian weapons use them.

How it works

A user only needs to find a target through the weapon's optical sight and shine a laser beam on it. The missile will guide itself while the user keeps the laser on the target. The feature that makes the Kornet highly effective is the use of dual shaped charge warheads.
The first one detonates the tank’s reactive armor (protective layer of explosives) and the second one, which is the main warhead, burns through the armor and destroys the target.

 

[Tanmay]

Many thanks for this video

I traced those roads back and their history and finally some connection can be made for Sakteng Wildlife Sanctuary made by China. I dont think this connection has been explored by any media.

Nitin Gokhale talks about 2 roads to Tawang

1) BCT road aka Balipara-Charduar-Tawang road
2) OKSRT Road aka Orang-Kalaktang-Shergaon-Rupa-Tenga road (new road)

Hathunga La ridge is the last indian position after the defeat at Namka Chu- Thagla Ridge

GREEN ROAD is BCT Road
ORANGE ROAD is OKSRT road

View attachment 52678

So after Tawang fell, we fell back to Sela Pass (a good defendable position)

To get to Bomdilla, the Chinese had to cross the usual Sela Pass or go through more difficult Poshing La Pass


View attachment 52681


Bomdila was to be defended along with Mandala Pass

View attachment 52682



We are still improving the connectivity there to Mandala Pass



Look at the Pink Roads
View attachment 52684

So where does Sakteng Wildlife Sanctuary come in this? I believe India is still strengthening its position in Tawnang and Mandala via Bhutan

A new road was contructed from Mandala to Bhutan border (BROWN ROAD). But it stops at the boundary with no road on Bhutanese side.

From Trashigang (Bhutan) another new (RED ROAD) road is being contructed to Sakteng. Its currently ends at a school
https://goo.gl/maps/cvysXbnhMzJdJJtq7


View attachment 52685

2014 : No road

View attachment 52687
2018 : Hills have been cut and a road visible
View attachment 52688

I believe this road from Trashigang(Bhutan) will finally meet Mandala Pass(India) and Tawang. The road passed through Sakteng Sanctuary.

China is probably threatening Bhutan to stop this road by making it disputed region. (Probably contructed by BRO under Project DANTAK)

Also Trashigang is well connected to Bhutan and India. So probably Bhutan and India have understood that Chinese may want to annex Bhutan or use Bhutan to bypass Indian defences in Tawang. Hence common defences spanning from Mandala Ridge extending to deep into Bhutan.

Yongphulla Airport - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Yonphula Airport was also contructed by Indian army. It will act as an alternative to the lone Paro airport.

Our chopper crashed there last year
https://scroll.in/latest/938723/two...-helicopter-crashes-in-eastern-bhutan-reports.

This seems to be the intention of China about Sakteng. Multiple roads to Tawang and Mandala and improving Indian response time and defences.

https://www.deccanherald.com/nation...counter-chinas-expansionist-moves-858681.html

India wants to build a road through Bhutan's 'Yeti Territory' to counter China's expansionist moves


The proposed road will lessen the distance between Guwahati in Assam and Tawang near India-China disputed boundary in Arunachal Pradesh by 150 kilometres. It will shorten the travel time from 15 hours at present to approximately 9-10 hours.

Once the new road is built, New Delhi will be able to mobilize troops faster to respond to China’s military moves, not only across its disputed boundary with India in Arunachal Pradesh, but also towards the eastern region of Bhutan.

The road was conceived long back, and India proposed that its Border Roads Organization (BRO) would lay the stretch in Bhutan. The project, however, has not taken off yet, as Thimphu has been dilly-dallying on it. New Delhi is now dusting off the proposal in the wake of China’s renewed aggression along its disputed boundary with India and its new territorial claim in far eastern Bhutan. “India and Bhutan have shared security interests,” a source in New Delhi said, adding that China’s new claim on far-eastern Bhutan was clearly linked to its claim on 90000 sq kms of territory in Arunachal Pradesh of India. “Thimphu will hopefully soon realize how important it is to build the road, not only for India, but also for Bhutan.” Beijing has of late sought to block funding by an international agency for the Sakteng Wildlife Sanctuary in far eastern Bhutan.

It argued that the sanctuary as well as the areas around it were parts of the disputed territory on the China-Bhutan boundary. Thimphu dismissed Beijing’s new claim, stating that the territorial dispute between Bhutan and China was limited only to 269 sq kms of areas in western sector and 495 sq kms of areas in the north-central sector of the boundary between the two nations. It argued that no part of its territory in eastern sector was ever on the agenda of its boundary negotiation with the communist country.

The Sakteng Wildlife Sanctuary in Trashigang District in far-eastern Bhutan and the areas around it have traditionally been believed to be home to elusive ‘Yeti’ – or ‘Migoi’ in Bhutanese. The area is also home to a dwindling population of the Brokpas – reclusive, semi-nomadic yak herding tribespeople, who had been preserving a uniquepastoral culture and lifestyle in isolation ever since their ancestors migrated from Tibet sometime in 14th century.

The proposed road will connect Lumla near Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh with Trashigang in Bhutan. This will make it easier to travel from Guwahati via Samdrup Jongkhar and Trashigang in Bhutan to the tiny nation’s border with China and India as well as closer to the McMahon Line – the de facto boundary between India and China in the eastern sector.

Bhutan has so far been avoiding taking a call on the proposed road – apparently not only to protect the pristine and fragile ecology of the Himalayan Shangri La and the unique cultural heritage of its pastoral community from external influences, but also to avoid irking Beijing and being caught between India and China. New Delhi, however, has underlined in its recent engagements with Thimphu that China’s bid to change the status quo along its disputed boundary with India, its new territorial claim in eastern Bhutan and its aggression in South China Sea, East China Sea and Taiwan Strait exposed its expansionist intentions. “We hope that Bhutan will take note of what China is doing and act accordingly,” another source in New Delhi told the DH. Though Thimphu and Beijing have been holding negotiations to settle the boundary dispute since 1984, the territorial row between the two nations was limited to 764 sq kms of areas – 269 sq kms in west and 495 sq kms in north-central Bhutan. China never registered any claim on Sakteng Wildlife Sanctuary or any other area in eastern Bhutan during the 24 rounds of boundary negotiations till August 2016. The negotiations, however, remained stalled over the past four years, as Beijing refused to schedule the 25th round aer Thimphu sided with New Delhi during the 72-day-long stand-off between the Indian Army and the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) at Doklam Plateau in western Bhutan in June-August 2017.


My layman opinion

The newspapers got it wrong it seems. The road was already under construction. Indian side was complete and Bhutanese side was halfway thtough.

The road is not a response to Chinese claim to Sakteng. Rather the Chinese claim is a response to the road building.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Biden can make all the noises about Kashmir to get Muslim votes, the fact remains that America's strategic community is set on a collision course with China. And primary reason is China's OBOR. Second reason is South China sea.

India's importance is increasing by the day as there is nobody else in Asia to counter China.

India is more important to USA today than any other time in recent history maybe ever?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

IF Israel doesn't sell tech to China, it doesn't help us that much does it.

Losing Iran however,

We lose our link to Central Asia. We had Pakistan completely surrounded by three adversaries - India, Iran and Afghanistan, now it's going to be only India.

It is a win for Pak-China all the way and a loss for India. Let's just accept it.

Idk whether GoI can be blamed for this or not. But this is bad for India's security and economy and very good for Pakistan's.

This is a bigger for loss for USA and it's middle east allies. India can forget access
to central asia anytime soon. This was a major strategic blunder after independence.
One of many on along list by Nehru.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Its 1950s-60s again. This time China is a Dog & Russia is tail which is barking at USA. Earlier Soviets were barking while Chinese acted with them.

Wonder Putin will ditch China, just like China ditched Soviet Union.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Its 1950s-60s again. This time China is a Dog & Russia is tail which is barking at USA. Earlier Soviets were barking while Chinese acted with them.

Wonder Putin will ditch China, just like China ditched Soviet Union.

Russians are in the honeymoon suite with China. They are together in
a lot of places. Iran, Arctic, Central Asia and even talk of CPEC and afghanistan.

 

[apurva dave]

India may still end up buying F-21. I think India should buy 114 F-21. Will be very useful against Pakistan one day.

Hell no iaf cheif already stated he is interested in mwf fighter which will be good against china and pak
And as far as pak is concerned su30 and compliment of tejas mk1a is sufficient not to metion mirage and raffel