India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

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utubekhiladi

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Interesting assessment by US. The local Chinese commander decided to withdraw after seeing aggressive Indian troops (including SFF). Do Chines real have guts to fight? Their bravery as UN peacekeepers is very famous

View attachment 57679
Interesting part. Few analogies can be made from it -
  • We were in overwhelming numbers, and better armed/prepared, such that CO of Chinese saw their doom if they fight.
  • Chinese soldiers were heavily demoralized (there were reports of Chinese being fearful of us after Galwan clash where our soldiers went on a murder rampage even when being in smaller numbers).
  • We did have a scuffle, unlike what our govt. says, but we quickly subdued them, hence they withdrew.
But really, I have to say the Chinese army is a disappointment as an opponent to the Indian army. The only thing they are good at is hiding behind machines and making 4k UHD videos.
as per USA intelligence and analyst (CIA Assessment and Report)
  • CHINA deliberately provoked India with a new incursion into contested territory earlier this week
  • A Chinese officer with the equivalent rank of a colonel in the U.S. military gave the order for his forces to withdraw, U.S. intelligence believes, against the wishes of higher military commands in Beijing
  • The U.S. believes Indian forces have prevented any loss of ground,
  • Beijing remains enraged that its local commander withdrew forces when a physical conflict appeared imminent, according to an American intelligence assessment.
  • The Indian troops were better prepared to respond to the Chinese provocation, the U.S. believes,
  • American intelligence officials and local analysts remain puzzled about the timing of the latest clash, which comes as China seeks to cool tensions – or has given the appearance it wishes to do so – and improve ties with India amid fears the latest violence has pushed New Delhi into closer cooperation with the U.S.
  • "China's leaders use tactics short of armed conflict to pursue China's objectives. China calibrates its coercive activities to fall below the threshold of provoking armed conflict with the United States, its allies and partners, or others in the Indo-Pacific region," according to the latest version of the Pentagon's annual Military China Report, which was released Tuesday and accounts for China's activities and posture as of the end of 2019.
  • The U.S. intelligence assessment concludes Chinese troops this time were building encampments in contested space – a tactic both sides have employed to gain a foothold they can later expand into infrastructure to support broader operations in the future.
  • Chinese President Xi Jinping would have to have known about each of the latest clashes in advance due to the nature of Chinese military decisionmaking. U.S. intelligence officials now believe that he may have created a "cycle of provocations" and doesn't know how to extract the Chinese army without appearing to show weakness.
  • Analysts at the time believed Chinese forces did not anticipate the extent to which the June land-grab would enrage the Indian people, causing reverberations that left the central government in New Delhi with no choice but to escalate its response, which included banning Chinese apps from phones in India.
 

ezsasa

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IndiaRising

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Interesting part. Few analogies can be made from it -
  • We were in overwhelming numbers, and better armed/prepared, such that CO of Chinese saw their doom if they fight.
  • Chinese soldiers were heavily demoralized (there were reports of Chinese being fearful of us after Galwan clash where our soldiers went on a murder rampage even when being in smaller numbers).
  • We did have a scuffle, unlike what our govt. says, but we quickly subdued them, hence they withdrew.
But really, I have to say the Chinese army is a disappointment as an opponent to the Indian army. The only thing they are good at is hiding behind machines and making 4k UHD videos.
Their main goal is DBO. Everything else is a mirage
 

omaebakabaka

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Their main goal is DBO. Everything else is a mirage
I think their main goal is to stop development of Ladakh which is a given after 370 removal. DBO is Indian with an airfield, how can they legally occupy? That would be very blatant, my guess is they thought they can force us to not develop forward areas to which we gave all fingers....surprized them to see our tough stand but full blown war DBO will be under threat.
 

utubekhiladi

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Their main goal is DBO. Everything else is a mirage
its is now becoming clearer as they want to encroach areas near the Karakoram Pass and get depth for their highways which move towards porkistan and Europe through countries moving through the Shenzhen region above the Indian territory.
 

ezsasa

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What does last line mean?

View attachment 57682
Means nothing useful.
Up until USSR broke up, there used to be similar stories from Moscow in tabloids as if kremlin was discussing about India daily. Our people used to lap it up.

It's better to ignore, unless this has been corroborated from multiple sources.

American Journos who are so finely tuned into India related events are quite rare, even the ones who stayed in india for decades don't get India right most of the times.
 

omaebakabaka

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Means nothing useful.
Up until USSR broke up, there used to be similar stories from Moscow in tabloids as if kremlin was discussing about India daily. Our people used to lap it up.

It's better to ignore, unless this has been corroborated from multiple sources.

American Journos who are so finely tuned into India related events are quite rare, even the ones who stayed in india for decades don't get India right most of the times.
You can't underestimate the Chinese investments into western academic institutions, commercial companies, news media, NGO's to set a narrative or steal tech. It is unprecedented....
 

utubekhiladi

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Means nothing useful.
Up until USSR broke up, there used to be similar stories from Moscow in tabloids as if kremlin was discussing about India daily. Our people used to lap it up.

It's better to ignore, unless this has been corroborated from multiple sources.

American Journos who are so finely tuned into India related events are quite rare, even the ones who stayed in india for decades don't get India right most of the times.
the reporter may be useless but the Annual Report submitted to Congress from the office of the secretary of defense date on Sep-01-2020 carries lot of weight

i have attached the full report pdf with this post. please take pleasure to read. CIA has uncovered lot of filthy and disgusting secrets of china and pakistan nexus. don't get discouraged by 167 pages in the report :laugh:

1598997043286.png

2020-DOD-CHINA-MILITARY-POWER-REPORT-FINAL.PDF
 

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tarunraju

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Let me hear your plan if Iran-Pakistan-China-Russia makes an alliance (which will be guaranteed to happen in future)
If that happens, the "Asian NATO" will ensure India has F-35, THAAD, and other cutting-edge US hardware. I'm all for it.

Don't look at this as just a military alliance. It transcends warfare. There will be free flow of IP and capital. India will benefit the way European states have, under the Marshall Plan.

The west now realizes that it was stupid to continue feeding China after the Cold War without a viable counterbalance in Asia. During the final two decades of the Cold War, the West sought to pincer the Soviet Union from the west by NATO, and to the east by China. It now knows that it will be increasingly difficult for US allies (groups of mid-size nations like South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.,) to counterbalance China. So if we demonstrate our ability to stand up to China, the west will start "feeding" us (think big ticket industrial investments).

Chinese 5th gen warfare strategy will be to convince western policymakers through the western academia, intelligencia, and press "don't create another China." However, I predict China will have limited success in this. Asia has become so lopsided that the west needs a monolithic counterbalance to China that won't dial 911 every time it's picked on, because a US-led alliance of smaller states like SoKo, Japan, Vietnam, etc., are easy for China to push aside. If China decides to pick on someone like Vietnam, there's no way that Japan and SoKo will join a military effort. The US will have to police Asia with 50 warships, spending billions of dollars a week. On the other hand, a monolithic counterbalance to China like India will stunt China's access to the middle-east, South Asia, and IOR. That's pretty much half the battle against China won for the west.
 

dude00720

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OT but,
Well still he was in the wrong party...like PVN...so as you sow , you reap. Dharma dictates that you ditch your own guys if they are in the side of adharma like Vibheeshana and Yuyutsu . But if you want to stay loyal to your people even at the cost of Dharma like Karna or Bhishma then you pay the price. Still all this should not be discussed since he has passed away. मरणान्तानि वैराणि निर्वृत्तं न प्रयोजनम् ....
It was necessary for him to be in the other party. Safe to say, Modi gave him BHARAT RATNA. Read the tea leaves.
 

Indrajit

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Is there no other Journalist in U.S other than Paul D Shinkman who gets scoops on Indo-China clashes?
The assessment of 35 Chinese dead in the Galwan clashes was also attributed to him. Possible that US ntelligence are using him to get the word out.. considering the crappy report put out by the NYT on this, either the rest of the media is in China’s pocket or are not trusted to put out the message.

It’s interesting that he suggests that the US hasn’t made the conclusion that the Chinese were the first to act provocatively in this recent clash, clearly many of us have been delighted with the Indian “response” this time. His take on the Chinese surprise with the anger in the public sentiment is also spot on and one that hasn’t had adequate coverage given to. I found the article “helpful” to the Indian viewpoint. Hopefully, there will be follow up articles coming.
 

LDev

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  • Chinese President Xi Jinping would have to have known about each of the latest clashes in advance due to the nature of Chinese military decisionmaking. U.S. intelligence officials now believe that he may have created a "cycle of provocations" and doesn't know how to extract the Chinese army without appearing to show weakness.
This is important. Xi is now stuck and his reputation as a strongman is at stake and Modi is not giving him any face saving option.
 
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