India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Synergy]

That's 90 billion dollars!!
Holy Shit that's big!

Hope we can now order lch,more tejas, third iac and a few rafales!

that's about $12 billion.

 

[Holy Triad]

Congress walks out, demands discussion on India-China LAC stand off in Lok Sabha


Congis after walking out:"massa winnie! ain't nobody getting any deets of mil deployment,better send white flags to pla,they might need it,
---End of the message--
Jaichands over n out"

 

[Synergy]

Posting third & final time

underwater volcanic eruption over the ocean... 15th to 18th September

today it's 15th. so countdown has started.

 

[shade]

If USA enter in the war it will send China to centuries back like Afghanistan or middle East. Just see Libya

The only reason it's being delayed is world is too much dependent on China right now.

India on the other hand isn't ally of USA so am not really sure if they will come specially now. But if China goes full throttle against India then then it will intervene .

Depends if the burgers can sustain a war long enough to whack the PLA, Chenez are a sedentary bourgeois and urbanized race rn, so once PLA/CCP is out US will have one more vassal, this isn't like Vietnam or *generic Peaceful Religion country* where they will have to deal with guerrila attacks and all.

 

[Holy Triad]

Clear and loud statement

China in unauthorized occupation of about 38,000 square km of land in Ladakh, action shows disregard towards bilateral ties: @rajnathsingh

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

Depends if the burgers can sustain a war long enough to whack the PLA, Chenez are a sedentary bourgeois and urbanized race rn, so once PLA/CCP is out US will have one more vassal, this isn't like Vietnam or *generic Peaceful Religion country* where they will have to deal with guerrila attacks and all.

US will win eventually but the CCP will stay in power if the war lasted less than a year.

If US wants of occupy China completely and remove CCP, them expect a war which will last about 6-7 years.

 

[tarunraju]

Confirms my suspicions that the Indian Express story on Chinese snooping was planted by Chinese intelligence. Some imaginary data firm was propped up, and "evidence" was passed onto IE presstitutes to make their story.

Objective? Tell India "your comms are compromised, don't go to war, you'll lose, capitulate."

Interestingly, this "snooping" didn't prevent India from surprising China in South Bank Pangong Tso.

So if Ninda is talking about border row resolution, maybe Chinese intelligence "snooping" found political dirt on BJP leaders and is backmailing them in some other way.

The military comms are fine.

 

[Synergy]

These Eunuchs tend to only quote that India has only 10 days worth of ammunition for intensive war with Pakistan.. but what about Pakistan. Estimates are that it has less than 5 days worth of ammunition for intensive war against India. In war, India will impose a naval blockade on Pakistan, and blow up Karakoram highway. Also ammunition resupply by China via air, will be interdicted in many cases.. In this article, he only regurgitates old tropes by the aman ki tamasha gang.. He first sets the political objective.. and then writes up his analysis in a way to suit that objective..

afaik, those 10days reserve has changed and we were eying for 40days reserve. not sure about the present status but that shouldn't be less than that.

 

[shade]

US will win eventually but the CCP will stay in power if the war lasted less than a year.

If US wants of occupy China completely and remove CCP, them expect a war which will last about 6-7 years.

A US invasion of China will coincide with CIA supported "Democratic" Chinese groups sprouting like mushrooms everywhere, so in the end the final blow will be struck by these democratic groups plus pliant CCP politicians and PLA walas who will then get to stay in the "New China" rather than be subjected to some sham trial/exiled/executed by US forces.
US aims at setting up vassals, not necessarily old skool occupation.

Chinese nationalism rn is simply a CCP product, which gains acceptance among the Chinese populace because of the perception that their country is NUMBA WAN in the world, with $15 trillion GDP, Factory of the world, 2nd Largest consumer market, Largest Army, Navy etc etc.

In times of war on their wealthy coast, it will not take much time for all these NUMBA WAN features of China to evaporate, it is then you have CIA supported Democracy groups sprouting in China, filled with the same bourgeois who were doing CHAINA NUMBA WAN at the CCP's beck and call when everything was sunshine and rainbows.

This is assuming America can sustain a war long enough btw, so that China cracks...

 

[ezsasa]

Confirms my suspicions that the Indian Express story on Chinese snooping was planted by Chinese intelligence. Some imaginary data firm was propped up, and "evidence" was passed onto IE presstitutes to make their story.

Objective? Tell India "your comms are compromised, don't go to war, you'll lose, capitulate."

Interestingly, this "snooping" didn't prevent India from surprising China in South Bank Pangong Tso.

So if Ninda is talking about border row resolution, maybe Chinese intelligence "snooping" found political dirt on BJP leaders and is backmailing them in some other way.

The military comms are fine.

Either way a team needs to be setup under NSA for people who think they are blackmailed by CCP can approach, NSA can help them a way out.

Surely there will be people who are unwilling to be compromised further.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

today it's 15th. so countdown has started.

India to conduct 200 MT thermonuclear test code named Echelon Four in Indian Ocean region. This might lead to volcanic eruptions and mini tsunamies..

 

[shade]

Confirms my suspicions that the Indian Express story on Chinese snooping was planted by Chinese intelligence. Some imaginary data firm was propped up, and "evidence" was passed onto IE presstitutes to make their story.

Objective? Tell India "your comms are compromised, don't go to war, you'll lose, capitulate."

Interestingly, this "snooping" didn't prevent India from surprising China in South Bank Pangong Tso.

So if Ninda is talking about border row resolution, maybe Chinese intelligence "snooping" found political dirt on BJP leaders and is backmailing them in some other way.

The military comms are fine.

This snoopgate seems more like "meta data " gathering( i.e gathering data from publicly available sources, like social media etc ), rather than actual hackerman powered snooping to record confidential calls, SMS, E-mails, whatsapp chats etc.
No doubt they do the hackerman sht too, they are after all NUMBA WAN at hackerman.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Confirms my suspicions that the Indian Express story on Chinese snooping was planted by Chinese intelligence. Some imaginary data firm was propped up, and "evidence" was passed onto IE presstitutes to make their story.

Objective? Tell India "your comms are compromised, don't go to war, you'll lose, capitulate."

Interestingly, this "snooping" didn't prevent India from surprising China in South Bank Pangong Tso.

So if Ninda is talking about border row resolution, maybe Chinese intelligence "snooping" found political dirt on BJP leaders and is backmailing them in some other way.

The military comms are fine.

Unlikely.. there are more australians than Indians being monitored.

This company has been tracking at least 2.4 million (24 lakh) people around the world — 10,000 Indians, 50,000 Americans, 40,000 British and 35,000 Australians.

 

[DownWithCCP]

Unlikely.. there are more australians than Indians being monitored.

This company has been tracking at least 2.4 million (24 lakh) people around the world — 10,000 Indians, 50,000 Americans, 40,000 British and 35,000 Australians.

Highly unlikely because most of the data they were mining was available online for anybody to use, they just made a database and stored it, the Australians security researchers who found out about this whole thing did not mention any offensive actions to steal data, however that being is said it is plain stupidity to assume that the Chinese are not trying to hack and steal data to use it to blackmail others, it is just that in this case it is probably not true.

 

[tarunraju]

This snoopgate seems more like "meta data " gathering( i.e gathering data from publicly available sources, like social media etc ), rather than actual hackerman powered snooping to record confidential calls, SMS, E-mails, whatsapp chats etc.
No doubt they do the hackerman sht too, they are after all NUMBA WAN at hackerman.

Yes, anything to make the firm look legit. Look at the timing of the story. China is trying desperately to prevent India from going to war and weakening its bargaining position. Gobar Times info-warfare isn't working. Attempting to create anti-war hysteria has also failed. What to do next? Spook the Indian leadership with a story like this, which makes them wonder if this is the right time to be fighting.

If BJP is made up of baniya paper-pushers who want to avoid war while attempting to look strong, this is the perfect "face saver" justification. If however they're real chads, they'll look at their south bank pangong tso successes, and signal the chinese to fuck off by taking more proactive steps.

 

[tarunraju]

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

A US invasion of China will coincide with CIA supported "Democratic" Chinese groups sprouting like mushrooms everywhere, so in the end the final blow will be struck by these democratic groups plus pliant CCP politicians and PLA walas who will then get to stay in the "New China" rather than be subjected to some sham trial/exiled/executed by US forces.
US aims at setting up vassals, not necessarily old skool occupation.

Chinese nationalism rn is simply a CCP product, which gains acceptance among the Chinese populace because of the perception that their country is NUMBA WAN in the world, with $15 trillion GDP, Factory of the world, 2nd Largest consumer market, Largest Army, Navy etc etc.

In times of war on their wealthy coast, it will not take much time for all these NUMBA WAN features of China to evaporate, it is then you have CIA supported Democracy groups sprouting in China, filled with the same bourgeois who were doing CHAINA NUMBA WAN at the CCP's beck and call when everything was sunshine and rainbows.

This is assuming America can sustain a war long enough btw, so that China cracks...

So if China loses and becomes democratic, will it reunite with taiwan??

 

[prasadr14]

So if China loses and becomes democratic, will it reunite with taiwan??

It will separate into multiple countries instead.

 

[DownWithCCP]

Yes, anything to make the firm look legit. Look at the timing of the story. China is trying desperately to prevent India from going to war and weakening its bargaining position. Gobar Times info-warfare isn't working. Attempting to create anti-war hysteria has also failed. What to do next? Spook the Indian leadership with a story like this, which makes them wonder if this is the right time to be fighting.

If BJP is made up of baniya paper-pushers who want to avoid war while attempting to look strong, this is the perfect "face saver" justification. If however they're real chads, they'll look at their south bank pangong tso successes, and signal the chinese to fuck off by taking more proactive steps.

You are giving them much more credit than they deserve in this particular case, of course it was big but not earth shattering already most of the data(around 1.5Tb) has been shared to many journalists as well and I don't think anything incriminating on any person of importance was found, the top political, intelligence and military brass will be least concerned about this event in particular, however we do not know the scale and intensity of other programs that the PLA has deployed.

 

[ninja hattori]

Text of Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh’s Statement in Lok Sabha on September 15 Regarding Situation on Eastern Border in Ladakh
Posted On: 15 SEP 2020 3:56PM by PIB Delhi

“Hon’ble Speaker,



1. I rise today to brief this august House about the development on our eastern borders in Ladakh. You are aware that our Hon’ble Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi ji had visited Ladakh and met our brave soldiers to convey the message of solidarity of the Nation behind their every action. I too have spent some time with our soldiers in Ladakh and I want to tell you that I have felt their indomitable courage, gallant and valor. As you are aware that Col Santosh Babu, along with his 19 brave soldiers, made the supreme sacrifice in the cause of defending the territorial integrity of India. Hon’ble Speaker, this House has paid homage to them by observing two minutes silence yesterday.

2. I would like to take some time first to briefly provide some details of our boundary issue with China. As the House is aware, India and China are yet to resolve their boundary question. China does not accept the customary and traditional alignment of the boundary between India and China. We believe that this alignment is based on well-established geographical principles confirmed by treaties and agreements, as well as historical usage and practice, well-known for centuries to both sides. The Chinese position,however, is that the boundary between the two countries has not been formally delimited, that there exists a traditional customary line formed by the extent of jurisdiction that they claim was exercised historically by each side, and that the two sides have different interpretations of the position of the traditional customary line. The two countries had engaged in discussions during 1950s-60s but these efforts could not yield a mutually acceptable solution.

3. As the House is aware, China continues to be in illegal occupation of approximately 38,000 sq. kms in the Union Territory of Ladakh. In addition, under the so-called Sino-Pakistan 'Boundary Agreement' of 1963, Pakistan illegally ceded 5,180 sq. km. of Indian territory in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir to China. China also claims approximately 90,000 sq. kms. of Indian territory in the Eastern Sector of the India-China boundary in Arunachal Pradesh.

4. Both India and China have formally agreed that theboundary question is a complex issue which requires patience and have committed to seeking a fair, reasonable and mutually acceptable solution through dialogue and peaceful negotiations.In the interim, the two sides also agree that maintenance of peace and tranquility in the border areas is an essential basis for the further development of bilateral relations.

5. I would like to mention here that as yet there is no commonly delineated Line of Actual Control (LAC) in the border areas between India and China and there is no common perception of the entire LAC. Therefore, in order to ensure peace and tranquility in the border areas, especially along the Line of Actual Control (LAC), the two countries have concluded a number of agreements and protocols.

6. Under these agreements, the two sides have agreed to maintain peace and tranquility along the LAC without prejudice to their respective positions on the alignment of the LAC as well as on the boundary question. It is on this basis, that our overall relations also saw considerable progress since 1988. India’s position is that while bilateral relations can continue to develop in parallel with discussions on resolving the boundary question, any serious disturbance in peace and tranquility along the LAC in the border areas is bound to have implications for the positive direction of our ties.

7. A key element of both the 1993 and the 1996 Agreements is that the two sides will keep their military forces in the areas along the Line of Actual Control to a minimum level. These agreements also mandate that pending an ultimate solution to the boundary question, the two sides shall strictly respect and observe the Line of Actual Control.Furthermore in these agreements, India and China also committed to clarification and confirmation of the Line of Actual Control to reach a common understanding of the alignment. Thus, in late 1990s and upto 2003, the two sides engaged in an exercise to clarify and confirm the LAC. But, thereafter the Chinese side did not show a willingness to pursue the LAC clarification exercise. As a result, there are some areas where the Chinese and Indian perceptions of LAC overlap. In these areas, as also with other sections of the border areas, the various agreements govern the manner in which troops of both sides should operate and deal with situations of face-offs to maintain peace and tranquility.

8. Before I apprise the House of the current developments, let me inform that the Government has an elaborate and time tested coordination mechanism amongst different intelligence agencies including intelligence units of the Central Police Forces and the three armed forces. The technical and human intelligence is continuously gathered in a well coordinated manner. It is shared with the armed forces which help them in taking decisions.

9. Let me now apprise the House of the developments this year. Since April,we had noticed a buildup of troops and armaments by the Chinese side in the border areas adjacent to Eastern Ladakh. In early May, the Chinese side had taken action to hinder the normal, traditional patrolling pattern of our troops in the Galwan Valley area, which resulted in a face-off. Even as this situation was being addressed by the Ground Commanders as per the provisions of our bilateral agreements and protocol, in mid-May the Chinese side made several attempts to transgress the LAC in other parts of the Western Sector. This included Kongka La, Gogra and North Bank of Pangong Lake. These attempts were detected early and consequently responded to appropriatelyby our armed forces.

10. We made it clear to the Chinese side both through diplomatic and military channels that China was, by such actions,attempting to unilaterally alter the status quo. It was categorically conveyed that this was unacceptable.

11. Given the growing friction along the LAC, the Senior Commanders of the two sides in a meeting on June 6 2020agreed on a process of disengagement that involved reciprocal actions. Both sides also agreed to respect and abide by the LAC and not undertake any activity to alter the status quo. However in violation of this the Chinese side created a violent face off on June 15th at Galwan. Our brave soldiers laid down their lives and also inflicted costs including casualties on the Chinese side,

12. The conduct of our armed forces throughout these incidents shows that while they maintained “Sayyam” in the face of provocative actions, they also equally displayed “Shaurya” when required to protect the territorial integrity of India.I would like the House to join me in recognizing the courage and valour of our soldiers, who undergo immense hardship in the most difficult conditions to keep us all safe and secure.



13. While no one should doubt our determination to safeguard our borders, India believes that mutual respect and mutual sensitivity are the basis for peaceful relations with neighbours. As we want to resolve the current situation through dialogue, we have maintained diplomatic and military engagement with the Chinese side. In these discussions, we have maintained the three key principles that, determine our approach: (i) both sides should strictly respect and observe the LAC; (ii) neither side should attempt to alter the status quo unilaterally; and (iii) all agreements and understandings between the two sides much be fully abided by in their entirety. The Chinese side, on its part, took the position that the situation should be handled in a responsible manner and ensure peace and tranquility as per bilateral agreements and protocol.

14. Even as these discussions were going on, the Chinese side again engaged in provocative military manoeuvers on the night of 29thand 30thAugust in an attempt to change the status quo in the South Bank area of Pangong Lake. But yet again, timely and firm actions by our armed forces along the LAC prevented such attempts from succeeding.

15. As is clear from these events, the Chinese actions reflect a disregard of our various bilateral agreements. The amassing of the troops by China goes against the 1993 and 1996 Agreements. Respecting and strictly observing the Line of Actual Control is the basis for peace and tranquility in the border areas and explicitly recognized in both 1993 and 1996 agreements. While our armed forces abide scrupulously by it, this has not been reciprocated by the Chinese side. Their actions have led to face-offs and frictions from time to time along the LAC. As I mentioned earlier, the agreements have detailed procedures and norms to deal with the situation of face-offs. However, in the recent incidents, this year, the violent conduct of Chinese forces has been in complete violation of all mutually agreed norms.

16. As of now, the Chinese side has mobilized a large number of troops and armaments along the LAC as well as in the depth areas. There are several friction areas in Eastern Ladakh including Gogra, Kongka La and North and South Banks of the Pangong Lake. In response to China’s actions, our armed forces have also made appropriate counter deployments in these areas to ensure that India’s security interests are fully protected. The House should have full confidence that our armed forces will always rise to the challenge and do us all proud. This is still an ongoing situation and obviously involves sensitive operational issues. I would, therefore, not be able to give more details in public and I am confident about the understanding of the House in this regard.

17. This rapid deployment by our armed forcesincluding ITBP has taken place in a challenging time of COVID-19. Their efforts need to be appreciated. It has also been made possible by the high importance that the Government has placed for developing border infrastructure in the last few years. The House is aware that over the last many decades, China had undertaken significant infrastructure construction activity that enhanced their deployment capabilities in the border areas. However, in response, our Government too has stepped up the budget for border infrastructure development to about double the previous levels. As a result, more roads and bridges have been completed in the border areas. This has not only provided much needed connectivity to the local population, but has also provided better logistical support for our armed forces, enabling them to be more alert in the border areas and respond more effectively where required. In the coming years too, the Government remains committed to this objective.

Hon’ble Speaker,

18. I would like to emphasize, that India remains committed to resolving the current issues in our border areas through peaceful dialogue and consultations. It was in pursuit of this objective that I met my Chinese counterpart on 4th September in Moscow and had an in-depth discussion with him. I conveyed in clear terms our concerns related to the actions of the Chinese side, including amassing of large number of troops, their aggressive behavior and attempts to unilaterally alter the status quo that were in violation of the bilateral agreements. I also made it clear that even as we wanted to peacefully resolve the issue and would like the Chinese side to work with us, there should also be no doubt about our determination to protect India’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. My colleague, Shri Jai Shankar, the External Affairs Minister, has thereafter met the Chinese Foreign Minister in Moscow on 10th September. The two have reached an agreement that, if implemented sincerely and faithfully by the Chinese side, could lead to complete disengagement and restoration of peace and tranquility in the border areas.



19. As the Members are aware, in the past too we have had situations of prolonged stand-offs in our border areas with China which have been resolved peacefully. Even though the situation this year is very different both in terms of scale of troops involved and the number of friction points, we do remain committed to the peaceful resolution of the current situation.At the same time, the House can be assured that we remain prepared to deal with all contingencies.

20. Hon’ble Speaker this House has had a glorious tradition that whenever the country is faced with a challenge, this House has always exhibited its strength and unity towards the resolve and determination of our Armed Forces. This House has also reposed its full confidence in the indomitable spirit, gallantry and bravery of our Armed Forces deployed on our borders.

21. I can assure you that the morale and motivation of our Armed Forces is very high. The reassuring visit by our PM has ensured that our commanders and soldiers understand that the entire nation stands behind them in support of the just cause of defending our territorial integrity. They are accordingly being provisioned with suitable clothing, habitat and the required defence wherewithal. The determination of our troops is praise worthy. They are capable of serving at forbidding altitudes with scarce oxygen and in extremely cold temperatures, something that they have effortlessly done over the last many years on Siachen, and Kargil.

22. I will not hesitate to share with this august House that we are facing a challenge in Ladakh and I urge the House to pass a resolution in support of our Armed Forces who have been defending our motherland at great heights and most inclement weather conditions in Ladakh for our safety and security. This is a time when this august House has to come together and reiterate confidence and faith in the velour of the brave armed forces and support them in the mission that they have undertaken to protect the territorial integrity of our motherland