India-China 2020 Border conflict

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Cheran

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Russia and China tell Biden: The old days are over
In separate incidents, Moscow and Beijing sent a strong message that they will not tolerate being told what to do or how to behave
By TONY KEVIN
MARCH 26, 2021

The past week has marked a watershed moment in Russia’s relations with the West – and the US in particular. In two dramatic, televised moments, US President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin changed the dynamics between their countries, perhaps irrevocably.

Most commentators in the West have focused on Putin’s “trolling” of Biden by dryly – though, according to Putin, unironically – wishing his American counterpart “good health.” This, of course, came after Biden called Putin a “killer.”

But a more careful and complete reading of Putin’s message to the US is necessary to understand how a Russian leader is, finally, ready to tell the US: Do not judge us by your claimed standards, and do not try to tell us what to do.

Putin has never asserted these propositions so bluntly. And it matters when he does.

Putin’s message to Biden
The tense test of strength began when Biden was asked about Putin in an interview with ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos and agreed he was “a killer” and didn’t have a soul. He also said Putin will “pay a price” for his actions.

Putin then took the unusual step of going on the state broadcaster VGTRK with a prepared five-minute statement in response to Biden.

In an unusually pointed manner, Putin recalled the US history of genocide of its indigenous people, the cruel experience of slavery, the continuing repression of black Americans today and the unprovoked US nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War II.

He suggested states should not judge others by their own standards: “Whatever you say about others is what you are yourself.”

Some American journalists and observers have reacted to this as “trolling.” It was not.

It was the preamble to Putin’s most important message in years to what he called the American “establishment, the ruling class.” He said the US leadership is determined to have relations with Russia, but only “on its own terms.”

“Although they think that we are the same as they are, we are different people. We have a different genetic, cultural and moral code. But we know how to defend our own interests.

“And we will work with them, but in those areas in which we ourselves are interested, and on those conditions that we consider beneficial for ourselves. And they will have to reckon with it. They will have to reckon with this, despite all attempts to stop our development. Despite the sanctions, insults, they will have to reckon with this.”

This is new for Putin. He has for years made the point, always politely, that Western powers need to deal with Russia on a basis of correct diplomatic protocols and mutual respect for national sovereignty, if they want to ease tensions.

But never before has he been as blunt as this, saying in effect: Do not dare try to judge us or punish us for not meeting what you say are universal standards, because we are different from you. Those days are now over.

China pushing back too
Putin’s forceful statement is remarkably similar to the equally firm public statements made by senior Chinese diplomats to US Secretary of State Antony Blinken in Alaska last week.

Blinken opened the meeting by lambasting China’s increasing authoritarianism and aggressiveness at home and abroad – in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong and the South China Sea. He claimed such conduct was threatening “the rules-based order that maintains global stability.”

Yang Jiechi, the Communist Party of China’s foreign-affairs chief, responded by denouncing American hypocrisy. He said:

“The US does not have the qualification to say that it wants to speak to China from a position of strength. The US uses its military force and financial hegemony to carry out long-arm jurisdiction and suppress other countries. It abuses so-called notions of national security to obstruct normal trade exchanges, and to incite some countries to attack China.”

He said the US had no right to push its own version of democracy when it was dealing with so much discontent and human-rights problems at home.

Russia, China drawing closer together
Putin’s statement was given added weight by two diplomatic actions: Russia’s recalling of its ambassador in the US, and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s meeting in China with his counterpart, Wang Yi.

Beijing and Moscow agreed at the summit to stand firm against Western sanctions and boost ties between their countries to reduce their dependence on the US dollar in international trade and settlements. Lavrov also said: “We both believe the US has a destabilizing role. It relies on Cold War military alliances and is trying to set up new alliances to undermine the world order.”

Though Biden’s undiplomatic comments about Putin may have been unscripted, the impact has nonetheless been profound. Together with the harsh tone of the US-China foreign ministers’ meeting in Alaska – also provoked by the US side – it is clear there has been a major change in the atmosphere of US-China-Russia relations.

What will this mean in practice? Both Russia and China are signaling they will only deal with the West where and when it suits them. Sanctions no longer worry them.

The two powers are also showing they are increasingly comfortable working together as close partners, if not yet military allies. They will step up their cooperation in areas where they have mutual interests and the development of alternatives to the Western-dominated trade and payments systems.

Countries in Asia and further afield are closely watching the development of this alternative international order, led by Moscow and Beijing. And they can also recognize the signs of increasing US economic and political decline.

It is a new kind of Cold War, but not one based on ideology like the first incarnation. It is a war for international legitimacy, a struggle for hearts and minds and money in the very large part of the world not aligned to the US or the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

The US and its allies will continue to operate under their narrative, while Russia and China will push their competing narrative. This was made crystal clear over these past few dramatic days of major-power diplomacy.

The global balance of power is shifting, and for many nations, the smart money might be on Russia and China now.



Ruskies were always based but i hate to say china joins them in this regard. Question here is - unironically and honestly - when we are in league with usa and australia do these 2 see us as default pro globalist and internationalist for taking their side? Jaishankar is the only based eam we have had who is prepared to show a mirror to the ones who are proud holding the universalist ******ry banner. Just something to ponder.
Thanks for posting this. Excellent read.

All pointers indicate to Russia accepting China's rise.
 

Knowitall

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Russia and China tell Biden: The old days are over
In separate incidents, Moscow and Beijing sent a strong message that they will not tolerate being told what to do or how to behave
By TONY KEVIN
MARCH 26, 2021

The past week has marked a watershed moment in Russia’s relations with the West – and the US in particular. In two dramatic, televised moments, US President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin changed the dynamics between their countries, perhaps irrevocably.

Most commentators in the West have focused on Putin’s “trolling” of Biden by dryly – though, according to Putin, unironically – wishing his American counterpart “good health.” This, of course, came after Biden called Putin a “killer.”

But a more careful and complete reading of Putin’s message to the US is necessary to understand how a Russian leader is, finally, ready to tell the US: Do not judge us by your claimed standards, and do not try to tell us what to do.

Putin has never asserted these propositions so bluntly. And it matters when he does.

Putin’s message to Biden
The tense test of strength began when Biden was asked about Putin in an interview with ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos and agreed he was “a killer” and didn’t have a soul. He also said Putin will “pay a price” for his actions.

Putin then took the unusual step of going on the state broadcaster VGTRK with a prepared five-minute statement in response to Biden.

In an unusually pointed manner, Putin recalled the US history of genocide of its indigenous people, the cruel experience of slavery, the continuing repression of black Americans today and the unprovoked US nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War II.

He suggested states should not judge others by their own standards: “Whatever you say about others is what you are yourself.”

Some American journalists and observers have reacted to this as “trolling.” It was not.

It was the preamble to Putin’s most important message in years to what he called the American “establishment, the ruling class.” He said the US leadership is determined to have relations with Russia, but only “on its own terms.”

“Although they think that we are the same as they are, we are different people. We have a different genetic, cultural and moral code. But we know how to defend our own interests.

“And we will work with them, but in those areas in which we ourselves are interested, and on those conditions that we consider beneficial for ourselves. And they will have to reckon with it. They will have to reckon with this, despite all attempts to stop our development. Despite the sanctions, insults, they will have to reckon with this.”

This is new for Putin. He has for years made the point, always politely, that Western powers need to deal with Russia on a basis of correct diplomatic protocols and mutual respect for national sovereignty, if they want to ease tensions.

But never before has he been as blunt as this, saying in effect: Do not dare try to judge us or punish us for not meeting what you say are universal standards, because we are different from you. Those days are now over.

China pushing back too
Putin’s forceful statement is remarkably similar to the equally firm public statements made by senior Chinese diplomats to US Secretary of State Antony Blinken in Alaska last week.

Blinken opened the meeting by lambasting China’s increasing authoritarianism and aggressiveness at home and abroad – in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong and the South China Sea. He claimed such conduct was threatening “the rules-based order that maintains global stability.”

Yang Jiechi, the Communist Party of China’s foreign-affairs chief, responded by denouncing American hypocrisy. He said:

“The US does not have the qualification to say that it wants to speak to China from a position of strength. The US uses its military force and financial hegemony to carry out long-arm jurisdiction and suppress other countries. It abuses so-called notions of national security to obstruct normal trade exchanges, and to incite some countries to attack China.”

He said the US had no right to push its own version of democracy when it was dealing with so much discontent and human-rights problems at home.

Russia, China drawing closer together
Putin’s statement was given added weight by two diplomatic actions: Russia’s recalling of its ambassador in the US, and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s meeting in China with his counterpart, Wang Yi.

Beijing and Moscow agreed at the summit to stand firm against Western sanctions and boost ties between their countries to reduce their dependence on the US dollar in international trade and settlements. Lavrov also said: “We both believe the US has a destabilizing role. It relies on Cold War military alliances and is trying to set up new alliances to undermine the world order.”

Though Biden’s undiplomatic comments about Putin may have been unscripted, the impact has nonetheless been profound. Together with the harsh tone of the US-China foreign ministers’ meeting in Alaska – also provoked by the US side – it is clear there has been a major change in the atmosphere of US-China-Russia relations.

What will this mean in practice? Both Russia and China are signaling they will only deal with the West where and when it suits them. Sanctions no longer worry them.

The two powers are also showing they are increasingly comfortable working together as close partners, if not yet military allies. They will step up their cooperation in areas where they have mutual interests and the development of alternatives to the Western-dominated trade and payments systems.

Countries in Asia and further afield are closely watching the development of this alternative international order, led by Moscow and Beijing. And they can also recognize the signs of increasing US economic and political decline.

It is a new kind of Cold War, but not one based on ideology like the first incarnation. It is a war for international legitimacy, a struggle for hearts and minds and money in the very large part of the world not aligned to the US or the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

The US and its allies will continue to operate under their narrative, while Russia and China will push their competing narrative. This was made crystal clear over these past few dramatic days of major-power diplomacy.

The global balance of power is shifting, and for many nations, the smart money might be on Russia and China now.



Ruskies were always based but i hate to say china joins them in this regard. Question here is - unironically and honestly - when we are in league with usa and australia do these 2 see us as default pro globalist and internationalist for taking their side? Jaishankar is the only based eam we have had who is prepared to show a mirror to the ones who are proud holding the universalist ******ry banner. Just something to ponder.
Good someone needs to start reminding the US and to a extent the west that their time of shitting on the world is coming to an end.

I'm glad the power of balance is finally shifting and hopefully we won't have to listin about human rights and climate change from nations who went around killing and looting people throughout the globe.
 

Indx TechStyle

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I'm glad the power of balance is finally shifting and hopefully we won't have to listin about human rights and climate change from nations who went around killing and looting people throughout the globe.
Not really but a new permanent group of failed countries with theocracies and civil wars will be around who will provide unsolicited statements about why India isn't a true democrazy.

We will be an imperialist or crazy state for at least one part of the world. Because the powers creating this "balance" are also at war with India.
 

Unknownwarrior

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Can anyone tell me what's the condition of our current electronic cyber and space warfare capabilities and what's the future compared to drone.. Also what about out UCAV and UAV programs if completed by 2025... Can we catch up with chinkies??
 

Knowitall

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Not really but a new permanent group of failed countries with theocracies and civil wars will be around who will provide unsolicited statements about why India isn't a true democrazy.

We will be an imperialist or crazy state for at least one part of the world. Because the powers creating this "balance" are also at war with India.
Just my personal opinion but i would rather prefer that china rises than the west maintain its hegemony.
 

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Good someone needs to start reminding the US and to a extent the west that their time of shitting on the world is coming to an end.

I'm glad the power of balance is finally shifting and hopefully we won't have to listin about human rights and climate change from nations who went around killing and looting people throughout the globe.
The alternative new world order is not on the bright side too though. If West was first kill everybody, then give sermons and preach virtues after killing everybody. Now it's mostly first talk about 'win, win' then attack from the back. Yeah, there is no more talk of democracy and Human Rights. Because there is no use for them in this new world.
 

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Just my personal opinion but i would rather prefer that china rises than the west maintain its hegemony.
My personal opinion is, I would rather not. It's already a struggle to deal with China now. It would be hell if they grow even more powerful. Right now they are not fully confident with dealing with India. Once everybody is down, we will be at the chopping block.
 

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Lol, one of my friends once made a kinda political joke. An unipolar world is not good for anybody except for the dominant country. While a multipolar world is like the coalitions of India, everybody likes it, everybody thinks it should be that way but nothing gets done except for backstabbing and bickering. So morale of the story, learn from BJP. Try to make a unipolar world with you at the top.
 

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Just my personal opinion but i would rather prefer that china rises than the west maintain its hegemony.
Well, government of India will prefer a superpower 15000 kms away from India like US was than having it in direct neighborhood. You know, India would have been far powerful country than its today even if it was just a further away from China.
 

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If male soldiers get fresh milk,
What do female soldiers get? :shock:
Probably their own milk or probably females aren't soldiers in their normal convention. This comfort women thingy seems to be an integral part of east Asian propaganda machines. A scenario where men of the country would fight war while women will support them with food, daily services and even sexual satisfaction at night to keep their morales high.
 
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