If the Indian Army had to start a war with Pakistan

[ashicjose]

Practically speaking...what option do India have to deter or counter Paki nuke attacks... has anyone even heard of any nuke shelters or our BMD is strong enough for now to destroy?

When would those terrorist leaders would be assasinated? All we know is that they are living in Pakistan lavishly for decades.

Now that is the question I would like to ask......? What is RAW doing there ?

 

[Bhadra]

Now that is the question I would like to ask......? What is RAW doing there ?

RAW should be politically allowed that . Is not it?
What happens if Dawood hypothetically controls all black money financing of Robert Vadra in real state? He finances the elections in Maharashtra? Would he sleep in comfort or would he have sleepless nights?

RAW is not an independent agency. It is under Madam..
If Dawood is killed many would loose their billions !


But again we are going off topic. Is not it?

 

[Yusuf]

But let first India get ready for war - Gen VK Singh's letter refers. There is no long time stake holder here. They all are "Sanu Ki.."

Going to war is not an overnight decision. If a decision is taken that yes we have to go to war and finish the menace, then adequate time will be provided, strategies chalked out. "atmosphere" for war created. Pretext found etc.

The key is, to recognize that the solution to many of India's current security problems lie in the dismantling of the state of Pakistan, it's capacity to wage war (covert/overt) and generally being a nuisance.

 

[ashicjose]

RAW should be politically allowed that . Is not it?
What happens if Dawood hypothetically controls all black money financing of Robert Vadra in real state? He finances the elections in Maharashtra? Would he sleep in comfort or would he have sleepless nights?

RAW is not an independent agency. It is under Madam..
If Dawood is killed many would loose their billions !


But again we are going off topic. Is not it?

Sorry .... can't resist, is it true or you bluffing and before UPA there was NDA what is their story ?

 

[A chauhan]

Forget it until you have a credible BMD or info and capability to blow out all nuclear weapon installations and assets of Pakistan.

 

[Bhadra]

Forget it until you have a credible BMD or info and capability to blow out all nuclear weapon installations and assets of Pakistan.

What happened in Kargil?

There was BMD etc? we still had a war !

 

[Bhadra]

Sorry .... can't resist, is it true or you bluffing and before UPA there was NDA what is their story ?

No, it is just hypothetical.... I was talking about black money financing which would definitely be with the underworld. Terror financing follow same channels

Name calling was inadvertent.... UPA or NDA, the system needs cleansing.

 

[Bhadra]

Pakistan swelling nuclear arsenal to counter India, says US Congressional report

Pakistan swelling nuclear arsenal to counter India, says US Congressional report - The Times of India


So Pakistan is primarily building deterrence against attack by Indian conventional Forces !

 

[Yusuf]

Pakistan swelling nuclear arsenal to counter India, says US Congressional report

Pakistan swelling nuclear arsenal to counter India, says US Congressional report - The Times of India


So Pakistan is primarily building deterrence against attack by Indian conventional Forces !

It's a known fact.

They are bluffing us and I have for years maintained that we need to call their bluff. They continue to bleed india through a 1000 cuts and hide behind the nuke threat and force us to do dossier diplomacy which is of no consequence.

 

[blank_quest]

technical know-how is the need of the our. India Should have a perspective planning for defence rather than incremental planning.

things India should do is .
1. MoU's for Tecnology transfer and know-how's for capacity building.
2. Allowing private sector for indigenous development of conventional Arms/Amunitions.
3. Perspective planning ,medium to long term Budget and Vision for Defense 20+ years.
4. Defense exercises with countries of proven capabilities.
5. Collaborating with Think tanks to institutionalize best practices.

............ the list can go on ..
that will be the real booster for economy and strategic defense.

 

[blank_quest]

I think deterrence is not built by procuring Arms from Rest of the world but by building/developing the technology and horizontal transfer of that technology.

 

[Bhadra]

It's a known fact.

They are bluffing us and I have for years maintained that we need to call their bluff. They continue to bleed india through a 1000 cuts and hide behind the nuke threat and force us to do dossier diplomacy which is of no consequence.

India should give them 10000 cuts. That means India and Pakistan should be at a state of perpetual war like in natural state or being inside a jungle. Pakistan will be eliminated but India will suffer in stagnation of economic growth. India should not fall into that trap.

The Cold start doctrine needs to be implemented to increase threat level of Pakstan so that their internal situation is out of the reach of Pakistani Army. So that their Afghan border is in a mess and Baluchistan is out of control.
Every time they give us a cut, quickly bite them on border a chew a piece of their body and do not return that piece.

Let Indian Army crawl towards their heart. They can not use their nuclear bombs for smaller chunks.

 

[Bhadra]

ISI has a budget of $300-400 million, 4,000 employees
ISI has a budget of $300-400 million, 4,000 employees




Kiessling, who represented the Hanns-Seidel-Foundation (Munich) in Pakistan from 1989 to 2002, has written this in a collection of essays in "Revisiting Contemporary South Asia" (Pentagon Press).

"The (real) ISI budget is top secret, only a few people know the figure," he says. "In fact officially the ISI budget today is between $300 and 400 million.

The personnel strength of ISI has also been a secret, he says.

"During Zia-ul Haq's tenure it was estimated to be 20,000 men. In the 1990s and in the new millennium there were drastic reductions in personnel.

"Therefore, it is now assumed that ISI's base strength is approximately 4,000. Higher estimates often encountered in literature and the press are grossly exaggerated."
.
(Continued) ISI has a budget of $300-400 million, 4,000 employees
ISI has a budget of $300-400 million, 4,000 employees

 

[Bhadra]

Direct Overt U.S. Aid Appropriations and Military Reimbursements to Pakistan, FY2002-FY2013

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/196189.pdf
Major U.S. Arms Sales and Grants to Pakistan Since 2001

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/196190.pdf

and we think of cold start ??

 

[Bhadra]

Jehadi takeover can prompt Indo-US attack on Pakistan: book

Jehadi takeover can prompt Indo-US attack on Pakistan: book


'If the (Pakistan) army were to disintegrate in the face of a jehadist takeover, all the existing (nuke) safeguards would presumably melt away,' says the book 'The Unravelling - Pakistan in the Age of Jihad'.

Author John R. Schmidt served as political counsellor at the US embassy in Islamabad in the years leading up to 9/11.

'If there are concerns today that terrorists might be able to seize a warhead and either use it for nuclear blackmail or seek to detonate it somewhere in the US, imagine the level of concern that would exist if jehadists were actually running the show in Islamabad,' it said.

The book (Pan Macmillan) says that in such circumstance, the US 'would decide to strike first, deploying its specially trained commando units, if they exist, or attempting to bomb Pakistani warhead storage facilities, if they can be located.

'The logic of the situation would seem to demand that the US attempt to liberate the country from the jehadists,' it said.
123



'It could probably destroy all that was left of the Pakistani armed forces through the use of air power. But it would need considerable help to wrest physical control of the state away from radical Islamists.'

The book goes on to say that the 'obvious move would be collaborate with India'.

'An Indo-American alliance could see the experience of Operation Enduring Freedom (of Afghanistan) repeated on a much larger scale, with the US providing the air power and India the bulk of ground forces,' it says.

The author, who now teaches at a US university, says that it is 'difficult to speculate how far into Pakistan Indians might feel inclined to push'.

'Would they attempt to occupy the entire country, or perhaps call a halt at the Indus?'

'At the very least they would want to bottle up the remaining jehadist forces and deny them ready access to the sea. This could militate in favour of seizing Punjab, Sindh and the coastal areas of Balochistan, while leaving the Pashtun areas on the far side of the Indus as a kind of jehadist no-man's-land.'

But things won't be easy.

'Once the dust had settled, the Indians and their US allies would then face a critical political question: what to do about the areas of Pakistan that had been brought under their control,' the book argues.

'Should they attempt to reconstitute Pakistan politically, handing power back to the civilian feudals while trying to reconstruct a less hostile Pakistani military?

'Or would they decide to incorporate the occupied territories into India, bringing about the final unravelling of the Pakistani state?

'It would be the greatest of ironies if Pakistan ended its existence by being reabsorbed into India,' the book said.

 

[Bhadra]

 

[Yusuf]

Jehadi takeover can prompt Indo-US attack on Pakistan: book

Jehadi takeover can prompt Indo-US attack on Pakistan: book


'If the (Pakistan) army were to disintegrate in the face of a jehadist takeover, all the existing (nuke) safeguards would presumably melt away,' says the book 'The Unravelling - Pakistan in the Age of Jihad'.

Author John R. Schmidt served as political counsellor at the US embassy in Islamabad in the years leading up to 9/11.

'If there are concerns today that terrorists might be able to seize a warhead and either use it for nuclear blackmail or seek to detonate it somewhere in the US, imagine the level of concern that would exist if jehadists were actually running the show in Islamabad,' it said.

The book (Pan Macmillan) says that in such circumstance, the US 'would decide to strike first, deploying its specially trained commando units, if they exist, or attempting to bomb Pakistani warhead storage facilities, if they can be located.

'The logic of the situation would seem to demand that the US attempt to liberate the country from the jehadists,' it said.
123



'It could probably destroy all that was left of the Pakistani armed forces through the use of air power. But it would need considerable help to wrest physical control of the state away from radical Islamists.'

The book goes on to say that the 'obvious move would be collaborate with India'.

'An Indo-American alliance could see the experience of Operation Enduring Freedom (of Afghanistan) repeated on a much larger scale, with the US providing the air power and India the bulk of ground forces,' it says.

The author, who now teaches at a US university, says that it is 'difficult to speculate how far into Pakistan Indians might feel inclined to push'.

'Would they attempt to occupy the entire country, or perhaps call a halt at the Indus?'

'At the very least they would want to bottle up the remaining jehadist forces and deny them ready access to the sea. This could militate in favour of seizing Punjab, Sindh and the coastal areas of Balochistan, while leaving the Pashtun areas on the far side of the Indus as a kind of jehadist no-man's-land.'

But things won't be easy.

'Once the dust had settled, the Indians and their US allies would then face a critical political question: what to do about the areas of Pakistan that had been brought under their control,' the book argues.

'Should they attempt to reconstitute Pakistan politically, handing power back to the civilian feudals while trying to reconstruct a less hostile Pakistani military?

'Or would they decide to incorporate the occupied territories into India, bringing about the final unravelling of the Pakistani state?

'It would be the greatest of ironies if Pakistan ended its existence by being reabsorbed into India,' the book said.

I think we'd be a protection/stabilizing force while handing over power to local Baloch and Sindhis in a reconstituted structure.

 

[Bhadra]

I think we'd be a protection/stabilizing force while handing over power to local Baloch and Sindhis in a reconstituted structure.

But Historically, the indian Defence Line had been Sindh river. Maximum battles with invaders have been fought there. The areas North of Sindh have remained tribal dominated. The lay of the land is also like that, that is from North East to South West and hence most of the irrigated fertile areas are south of Sindh riverline.

India settling for Sindh river may be wise thing rather than going for Durand line. Even Pakistan is only nominal on Durrand line and has no real control over the frontier province and tribal belt.

Access to Afghanistan then be obtained through Quetta and khyber. Yes, the coastal areas of entire Pakistan need to be captured through sea, as the author suggests.

It was only Maharja Ranjit Singh who saw the real security of Punjab lies in Kabul and launched many campaigns to subjugate Kabul and frontier areas.

 

[ALBY]

The death by 1000 cuts had been already begun.Whom do you think are behind all these attacks happening in Pakistan in a hourly basis from peshawar to karachi and from lahore to bajur? With out an external support those jehadists won't survive even a week.Every day Pakistan is burning down due to fidayeen attacks and still every one is accusing RAW for doing nothing.What the RAW is expected to do come in public and take responsibility for the destruction happening in Pakistan?

 

[Bhadra]

The death by 1000 cuts had been already begun.Whom do you think are behind all these attacks happening in Pakistan in a hourly basis from peshawar to karachi and from lahore to bajur? With out an external support those jehadists won't survive even a week.Every day Pakistan is burning down due to fidayeen attacks and still every one is accusing RAW for doing nothing.What the RAW is expected to do come in public and take responsibility for the destruction happening in Pakistan?

Jehadist elements inside Pakistan do not need RAW to help them. The division inside Pakistan is so wide amongst the population based on various factors that RAW really would not be needed.

Firstly Wahabi Sia divided is funded by KSA and Iran.
Sindhi Muhajir Pathan riots and conflicted is supported and funded by their respective population.
KSA supports all fundamentalist Jihadi tanjeems with a view to spread wahabism and install fundamentalist goct in Pakistan to have control over their nuclear bombs and missiles.
Tribals have their own dynamics.
The society is deeply devided amonst Sunnies, Shias, ahmadies, Ismalies, Dawudies, kaidianies, Punjabies, Sarkias, Sindhi, Baluch, Pathans or Pashtoons and Balties and Kashmiries etc.

Well if nothing is happening in Pakistan then RAW must disband itself rather than claiming credits which is not theirs.

The death by 1000 cuts had been already begun

The country is small enough to bleed to death with ten cuts only. Ten solid cuts. And the first cut should be on Pakistani Army. How does that cut is to be given should not only be professional assignment of Indian Armed Forces but mainly of RAW.

Bhutto family wanted to cut down the PA but the PA in turn cut them out.
Same happened with Nawaz Sharif !!