Never underestimate the Russians heh !
Agreed!
No plenty of stealth aircrafts like F-117 and even our upcoming drone AURA won't be having so much slopes.Stealth Badly Engineered
Startling similarities between Su-35 and PAK-FA
There is no clear vision as to how stealth will be achieved, neither does it make heavy use of sloped angles as in F-22 Raptor nor does it make use of composites. The air frame contains a lot of joins which is symbolic of poor construction techniques. Out of 12 weapon hard points 6 are internal and 6 are on the wings. The hard points on the wings give away the stealthiness of an aircraft, thus it leaves no in doubt about the fact that stealth is poorly engineered.
India will get a badly engineered base model which cannot be called a 5th Generation fighter with or without India specific features. This will not satisfy the IAF’s requirement.
Avionics
The avionics suite as known in public domain is:
Sh121 multi-functional integrated radio electronic system (MIRES)
N079 AESA radar
L402 Himalayas ECM suite built by KNIRTI institute
101KS Atoll electro-optical suite
101KS-O: Laser-based counter-measures against infrared missiles
101KS-V: IRST for airborne targets
101KS-U: Ultraviolet warning sensors
101KS-N: Targeting pod
This looks pretty ordinary and there is nothing which stands out as being uncommon or not available in aircraft of similar nature.
Ya, these were my points.On 25 January 2016, it was reported that Russia and India have agreed to develop FGFA and lower investment cost to $4 billion for each nation, down from $5.5 billion earlier.
Russia has been very hesitant in transferring technology to India. It took about 8 years to transfer the barrel technology of T-90 tanks…
Should it cost $4 billion to make some customization? Informed sources say that it is the cost of development of the entire model and Russia will not invest a single rubble.
In other words Russia is fooling India to fund the development of its 5th Generation fighter aircraft base model i.e.T-50 which will be further developed by them as per their needs.
What will India get?
India will get a badly engineered base model which cannot be called a 5th Generation fighter with or without India specific features. This will not satisfy the IAF’s requirement.
Transfer of Technology Problems
If we were to assume that Russia would develop a new powerful engine for this aircraft, re-engineer stealth and do every other thing to make it a world-class 5th Generation fighter jet one question still remains. Would it transfer technology to India?
Russia has been very hesitant in transferring technology to India. It took about 8 years to transfer the barrel technology of T-90 tanks even though India purchased those in large numbers. In the case of Su -30 India placed the first order in 1996 for 50 Russian made Su-30′s.Thereafter several upgrades happened till 2012. On 24 December 2012, India ordered assembly kits for 42 Su-30MKIs by signing a deal during President Putin’s visit to India. This increases India’s order total to 272 Su-30MKIs. Russia didn’t transfer the Engine technology and HAL is dependent on Russia for components to assemble the engine and some spare parts. All this after India paid a whopping $15 Billion to Russia for design, development, CKD’s and SKD’s.
At a time when various indigenous fighter jet programs like LCA Mark 2, AMCA are struggling to get fund allocated from the Finance ministry, spending a huge amount of this magnitude on some junk fighter jet of foreign design is pure wastage of money.
So it is likely that Russia won’t transfer crucial technology of the new fighter jet making India ever dependent on it for components, spares etc even after spending a hefty $4 Billion on so called” design and development”.
In short the Russians plan is to milk India for the next 30 years, knowing fully well that she needs a 5th Generation fighter jet. The offer of “joint design and development” is just the entry point in their diabolical game plan.
Conclusion
Recent news suggest that the talks between India and Russia failed to decide on the S-400 surface-to-air missile system. India has stated that it wants to buy the next-generation air and missiles defense system but Russia wants to link the potential purchase to the PAK-FA deal.
This suggests that Russia is aware that its bear hug with respect to the PAK-FA deal may not work, so it is trying to coerce India into it using another deal.
According to India Today, New Delhi has lost confidence in the Russian T-50 PAK-FA effort after Moscow truncated its buy to about a squadron’s worth of jets. The prevailing view within the Indian air force is that if Russia—which is the senior partner—is backing out of the program, then it will be left as the sole operator of an aircraft that largely fails to meet its requirements. Instead of buying PAK-FA, Russia is planning to continue production of advanced Su-30 and Su-35 Flanker variants.
India’s own Fifth Generation Fighter project – AMCA has far better design and specifications compared to PAK-FA. In other words, the above is a Russian no-confidence vote against their own product.
If the Russians are not confident about their own product should we repose confidence in it. The answer is a simple no.
At a time when various indigenous fighter jet programs like LCA Mark 2, AMCA are struggling to get fund allocated from the Finance ministry, spending a huge amount of this magnitude on some junk fighter jet of foreign design is pure wastage of money. India’s own Fifth Generation Fighter project – AMCA has far better design and specifications compared to PAK-FA.
Its always better that we spend billions of dollars in training our own scientists and engineers in developing 5th Generation stealth fighter jet technology as it will not only strengthen our defense but also provide jobs to millions of our countrymen.
Quite rightly the Indian MoD, IAF has expressed reservations over this deal and they should now go one step further to dump it.
Note: This piece is from IDN archives, found it relevant even now as so much of noise is being made of this project but no clear headway is visible on the ground
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/02/idn-archives-why-india-should-dump-fgfa.html
No such thing as "Aura" exist as of now neither there were/are "plenty" of Stealth Aircraft but very limited with F 22 as a pinnacle.
check B 2 spirit, Taranis .No such thing as "Aura" exist as of now neither there were/are "plenty" of Stealth Aircraft but very limited with F 22 as a pinnacle.
Surely F 117 don't have much slope and also has "rounded" engine
The new engine with dry thrust greater then 100 kn is already in final stages of Ground test, first air test within a yearEngine
The T-50 uses the NPO Saturn AL-41F1 engine with a dry thrust of 93kN.This is quite inadequate. Typically a 5th Generation aircraft with Supercruise as one of the main features should have a engine with a dry thrust of 110 – 120 kN.Such aircraft should not use afterburners because use of afterburners would give away the stealth. The Russians do not possess any proven design for such an engine and even if they come out with one, the result could be similar to that of Su – 30 MKI which has a track record of frequent burn-outs.
The glass in IR probe is transparent to x band radar, it shape does not matter. As for s shape inlet, these inlet leave the engine at high stress starved of air, that why su 47 had auxiliary intake on the top but still engine is starved of air.Stealth Badly Engineered
Startling similarities between Su-35 and PAK-FA
There is no clear vision as to how stealth will be achieved, neither does it make heavy use of sloped angles as in F-22 Raptor nor does it make use of composites. The air frame contains a lot of joins which is symbolic of poor construction techniques. Out of 12 weapon hard points 6 are internal and 6 are on the wings. The hard points on the wings give away the stealthiness of an aircraft, thus it leaves no in doubt about the fact that stealth is poorly engineered.
India will get a badly engineered base model which cannot be called a 5th Generation fighter with or without India specific features. This will not satisfy the IAF’s requirement.
A prototype for does not need such things look at f 22 or 23, they had rivets, a air data probe and other feature that did not go in production aircraft because it help in test. Rivet provides extra strength that means the prototypes can be use to the outer extend of performance without serious damaging the aircraft,air data probe is use to check the data obtained from other sensors. Metal engine pods enable to change engine quickly. Only when they aircraft satisfy the requirements, the production variants are started to be made.
Such a design sacrifices performance for stealth, if found the F 117 cannot run or fight back. Not something that is good when anti stealth technologies are getting better.No such thing as "Aura" exist as of now neither there were/are "plenty" of Stealth Aircraft but very limited with F 22 as a pinnacle.
Surely F 117 don't have much slope and also has "rounded" engine
View attachment 14075
The total module in present front radar and cheek radar are 2000, all GaN AESR, the there are DARFIM jammer in almost all frequency, two IR jammer a rear radar 2 l band radar for EW and two IR probe along with AI. The machine will learn and program it self in real time. How exactly is it weak.
It is 360 GaN AESR compare to hurt 120 for F 22, how exactly it has poor radar coverage.
The F 117 design has very poor aerodynamic performance. It cannot fly fast, carry a lot of load or had agility, all is sacrifice for stealth. 20 years ago this will do the trick but now VHF & UHF radar are mature enough to tell approximate location of such planes. IR probes have better performance and can easily lock on such planes. In future planes will require stealth and high performance along with good stand alone sensor. Plus PAKFA is made for air combat, it requires agility, ability to carry 6-8 missile,supercruise, all these require some design trade of. Plus F 22 and F117 have RAM problem, the RAM does not last long and have servicebility issue even when it get a lot of maintainces.
F 117 develop more than 35 years ago now this is 2017 and it's not a Fighter but stealth Bomber.
But the basic requirements still remain the same. F 117 does not require to have high speed so it can have sharp edges which increase drag bit a fighter cannot as it has to travel fast.It engine does not require large of air as it will nit perform high stress manoeuvres. That also means a less strong airframe. A fighter will require a more then required powerful engine that will increase fuel consumption if it has S shape inlet.
I don't know if they will develop any UCAV other than AURA under USAV project but the project is very much alive for sure, if tracking the updates.
F-35, B-2 Spirit, Predator-C, X-47B & even upcoming B-21 and other concept aircrafts.
Which era we have reached?Surely F 117 don't have much slope and also has "rounded" engine
This generation of Russian tech is still relevant but in 30 years I don't see Russian tech as much better than east Asian tech and will be far behind western gora tech
Yes very true . Russia was , is and will remain our window to world . Long live Russia India friendship. FAGA is going to happen , only thing which is struck is ipr , I think.
Yes, we do.
Who called it best in world? It leads in aircrafts of it's class.
How?
And your source is?
No personal offense intended at you mate but since last one week, I have seen a dozen of guys pretending to be EXPERT OF EVERYTHING bumping every thread and declaring the scientists as corrupt babus.
Russia does not give technology, it gives assembly line only. If India is funding Russian fighter program for assembly and not intellectual property, it doesn't bear anything.
FYI, Chinese didn't reverse engineer American & Soviet technologies literally.
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