IAF Mirage 2000

[BON PLAN]

Japan, UK and SoKo have already planned to extend their acquisition by more than twice that number combined.

Japan and SoKo purchase the US umbrella through F35 acquisition.
UK is the sole rank1 partner... and their initial target of 138 birds will NEVER be reached. As Italy (100 if I remember well), as Netherlands (85), as Australia. Even the US forces will never purchase all the F35 intended. You know why? because it is not as powerfull as boasted by LM.

 

[Bhurki]

I agree.
But the LM definition of 5th generation, applied to F35, show that's it's not a 5th gen.
It's a stealthy tactical air to ground fighter, with some Air to Air capacity.

You will see when Switzerland will make its choice. F35 will not be that one, because not enough potent in air to air missions, the core of the swiss requirements.

So you are saying that US DoD with literally trillions of funding accepted to buy 2500 planes that are inferior to what they wanted?...

 

[Bhurki]

Japan and SoKo purchase the US umbrella through F35 acquisition.
UK is the sole rank1 partner... and their initial target of 138 birds will NEVER be reached. As Italy (100 if I remember well), as Netherlands (85), as Australia. Even the US forces will never purchase all the F35 intended. You know why? because it is not as powerfull as boasted by LM.

Powerful ?!? ...........................

 

[BON PLAN]

So you are saying that US DoD with literally trillions of funding accepted to buy 2500 planes that are inferior to what they wanted?...

I say that F35 is not as potent as intended (not FOC after 13 years !!!) and that the follow on plane is already on the drawing board. In shunk works.

 

[Bhurki]

I say that F35 is not as potent as intended (not FOC after 13 years !!!) and that the follow on plane is already on the drawing board. In shunk works.

It reaches and exceedes all the Key performance parameters defined for the JSF...
Don't just say stupid 'powerful' reasons, give a valid reason if you have it..
I suggest you read F35 Selected Acquisition Report(SAR) by DAMIR to clear your doubts.
Just clear that last 'powerful' comment, it has 19 tons of thrust in its very first iteration as compared to 15 tons of thrust for rafale.. It'll only get higher from here

 

[BON PLAN]

It reaches and exceedes all the Key performance parameters defined for the JSF...

Are you pulling my legs ?

Range : Not reach.
load inside bay : they reduced the max weight of the two main bombs inside the ventral bay.
Supercruise : not reach
F16 like agility : not reach. Already limited to 7G, and beaten by a F16D with 2 tanks in dog fight.

 

[Bhurki]

Are you pulling my legs ?

Range : Not reach.
load inside bay : they reduced the max weight of the two main bombs inside the ventral bay.
Supercruise : not reach
F16 like agility : not reach. Already limited to 7G, and beaten by a F16D with 2 tanks in dog fight.

I suggest you read F35 Selected Acquisition Report(SAR) by DAMIR to clear your doubts.

Mission reliability, Sortie rates, combat radius are all met with the required armament loadout.... What are you talking about?
Yes, F35 can 'supercruise'.. It uses afterburner to cross Mach 1 but can maintain a speed of Mach 1.2 for over 150 nautical miles with military thrust. This was cleared specifically by the USAF. Besides F135 engine is in its first iteration with 19 tons of thrust, and there's significant room for upgrade for increased thrust.

 

[Wisemarko]

That just shows why India won't buy it. If you commit to the F-35 you have given up any real hope of developing your own fighter. Both the UK and Italy have blown their budgets on F-35 which makes Tempest DOA.

Ouch... Tempest is Sixth Generation offering and very well suited to replace Eurofighter. If Rafale is not DOA , most can survive.

As every time with the US : are the engines integrated in that price?
Too cheap to be true. If not, why SH18 was so few exported ?

no one cares what you say or think with your limited knowledge and fake identity.
That’s official price paid by USN to Boeing. Adios.

 

[Wisemarko]

View attachment 39747
Mission reliability, Sortie rates, combat radius are all met with the required armament loadout.... What are you talking about?
Yes, F35 can 'supercruise'.. It uses afterburner to cross Mach 1 but can maintain a speed of Mach 1.2 for over 150 nautical miles with military thrust. This was cleared specifically by the USAF. Besides F135 engine is in its first iteration with 19 tons of thrust, and there's significant room for upgrade for increased thrust.

Impressive information.......

 

[Armand2REP]

Ouch... Tempest is Sixth Generation offering and very well suited to replace Eurofighter. If Rafale is not DOA , most can survive

Tempest is actually a 5th generation programme from BAE that was shelved in the 90s. They even dusted off the same FOAS model for the Tempest reveal that had been stored at Warton for the last 20 years. The F-35 killed it then so there is little reason to expect it won't kill it again. You can't split resources when developing something like this on limited budgets, you are either all in or you fail.

 

[Wisemarko]

Tempest is actually a 5th generation programme from BAE that was shelved in the 90s

A 5th gen project? Don’t think so...
Sweden to join British ‘Tempest’ next-gen fighter push
By: Andrew Chuter   July 7 2019

A visitor sits in the model of the Tempest fighter jet during the Farnborough Airshow, southwest of London, on July 16, 2018. The jet design lacks a traditional cockpit display, instead relying on a virtual HUD projected through the pilot's helmet. (TOLGA AKMEN/AFP/Getty Images)

LONDON – Sweden is set to become the first international partner to join the British “Tempest” sixth-generation fighter program.

An announcement involving the governments and industries of the two nations is expected to be made at the three-day Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT) event, which begins July 19 at RAF Fairford, according to industry executives.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...o-join-british-tempest-next-gen-fighter-push/

 

[Armand2REP]

A 5th gen project? Don’t think so...
Sweden to join British ‘Tempest’ next-gen fighter push
By: Andrew Chuter   July 7 2019

That is the same model from Warton built in the 90s...

 

[Flying Dagger]

View attachment 39747
Mission reliability, Sortie rates, combat radius are all met with the required armament loadout.... What are you talking about?
Yes, F35 can 'supercruise'.. It uses afterburner to cross Mach 1 but can maintain a speed of Mach 1.2 for over 150 nautical miles with military thrust. This was cleared specifically by the USAF. Besides F135 engine is in its first iteration with 19 tons of thrust, and there's significant room for upgrade for increased thrust.

F 35 can't supercruise that is attaining mach 1+ speed without after burner.

What it does is once supercruise is achieved with after burner for sometime it can sustain it for 150 miles without afterburner.

So that's not supercruise technically . They are planning to uprate engine and make it more fuel efficient to make it supercruise.

 

[Armand2REP]

They are planning to uprate engine and make it more fuel efficient to make it supercruise.

The are developing adaptive engines to improve fuel efficiency. The 10% increase in performance will not allow it supercruise.

However, a 10% increase in thrust will not be a game-changer for the F-35, he says

"With respect to improved thrust, there is nothing the F-35 will be enabled to do that it can't do now," says Stutzriem

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...s-next-engine-to-reach-for-more-range-459856/

 

[Flying Dagger]

The are developing adaptive engines to improve fuel efficiency. The 10% increase in performance will not allow it supercruise.

It will aid in the performance to supercruise 10% is a big one. Right now it can sustain the supercruise for 150 miles and that will improve significantly with that upgrade at least.

 

[vampyrbladez]

F 35 can't supercruise that is attaining mach 1+ speed without after burner.

What it does is once supercruise is achieved with after burner for sometime it can sustain it for 150 miles without afterburner.

So that's not supercruise technically . They are planning to uprate engine and make it more fuel efficient to make it supercruise.

F 35 has TWR is 1.13 - 1.16 using 40% internal fuel load which is still more than what most modern fighter jets can carry with 1 external fuel tank. Thus it is perfectly capable of supercruise.

In the process you trim the afterburner to ~ 0 KN during transonic flight and you will be able to supercruise at M 1.2 for 150 Km.

 

[Wisemarko]

What can $45 million per plane get you?
Now compare that to what India got for $40 million per plane for Mirage upgrade.. ($40 million in 2012 is $41.5 million today). That’s called ripoff.

Japan gets US nod for $4.5 billion F-15 upgrade package
Mike Yeo
MELBOURNE, Australia – The U.S. State Department has approved Japan’s request for an upgrade package.

The approval will allow Japan to upgrade up to 98 of its F-15J interceptors to a “Japanese Super Interceptor (JSI) configuration,” which will see the addition of an advanced electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, new mission computers and electronic warfare equipment, as well as the integration of new munitions.

The new radar will be the Raytheon AN/APG-82(v)1 multimode AESA set that is currently being fitted on the U.S. Air Force’s F-15E Strike Eagles. Japan had requested 103 radars, including six spare sets, along with 116 Honeywell Advanced Display Core Processor II mission computers and 101 BAE Systems AN/ALQ-239 digital electronic warfare systems among the suite of upgrades. The package also will include anti-spoofing GPS gear for more precise navigation, and new radios.

 

[Armand2REP]

It will aid in the performance to supercruise 10% is a big one. Right now it can sustain the supercruise for 150 miles and that will improve significantly with that upgrade at least.

It is certainly a lofty upgrade if they can achieve all parameters, however a sketchy 10% increase in thrust does not mean it is dry thrust nor does it mean it will achieve the weight reduction needed. This upgrade is to increase range which means a full fuel load. F-35 can only partially achieve supercruise in a near empty configuration. It has no hope of supercruising with a combat load with only a 10% increase in thrust.

 

[samsaptaka]

Thread is going way OT. In fact this thread, kaveri thread and lca threads usually end up being discussions on F-21/F-35 ad nauseum. Cannot even recognize that this is supposed to be about Mirage 2000 !

 

[Flying Dagger]

What can $45 million per plane get you?
Now compare that to what India got for $40 million per plane for Mirage upgrade.. ($40 million in 2012 is $41.5 million today). That’s called ripoff.

Japan gets US nod for $4.5 billion F-15 upgrade package
Mike Yeo
MELBOURNE, Australia – The U.S. State Department has approved Japan’s request for an upgrade package.

The approval will allow Japan to upgrade up to 98 of its F-15J interceptors to a “Japanese Super Interceptor (JSI) configuration,” which will see the addition of an advanced electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, new mission computers and electronic warfare equipment, as well as the integration of new munitions.

The new radar will be the Raytheon AN/APG-82(v)1 multimode AESA set that is currently being fitted on the U.S. Air Force’s F-15E Strike Eagles. Japan had requested 103 radars, including six spare sets, along with 116 Honeywell Advanced Display Core Processor II mission computers and 101 BAE Systems AN/ALQ-239 digital electronic warfare systems among the suite of upgrades. The package also will include anti-spoofing GPS gear for more precise navigation, and new radios.

No doubt better than Mirage deal but we are not Japan and USA isn't our ally.

Even then everyone believes Mirage deal was a sham for what we were getting at the price . Anyway good that Japan went for upgrade.