HAL Prachand - Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

[Kunal Biswas]

Cannons and missiles are always useful, It better to have both..

Similar Idea was back in Vietnam war, proved to be bad for Pilots..

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Cannons are essential...

We are talking about cannons in fighter jets, how on earth is this relevant to that? I was waiting for the part where fighters would fire cannon and i got to see nothing. Is this another childish jingo attempt to show french technology even when it does not relate to the topic.?

 

[Armand2REP]

We are talking about cannons in fighter jets, how on earth is this relevant to that? I was waiting for the part where fighters would fire cannon and i got to see nothing. Is this another childish jingo attempt to show french technology even when it does not relate to the topic.?

The video includes fighter and helicopter cannons... it is more on-topic than all of your childish OT posts. This thread is about LCH which flies with a Nexter cannon.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

The video includes fighter and helicopter cannons... it is more on-topic than all of your childish OT posts. This thread is about LCH which flies with a Nexter cannon.

This shows you did not even follow the thread, that was never the question. Your video was totaly irrelevant to the subject. How does this show how a fighter jet requires a cannon? Explain...This is just your childish attempt to show case french crap.

 

[Armand2REP]

This shows you did not even follow the thread, that was never the question. Your video was totaly irrelevant to the subject. How does this show how a fighter jet requires a cannon? Explain...This is just your childish attempt to show case french crap.

You take this thread and many others OT and you are one to talk about childish?. This is about LCH. Not cannons on LCA or any other jet. You have made several personal attacks in the past month, that is childish.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

You take this thread and many others OT and you are one to talk about childish?. This is about LCH. Not cannons on LCA or any other jet. You have made several personal attacks in the past month, that is childish.

I was not the one who made it OT, YT asked me a question and the cannon topic was here long before i talked about it.. However it begs the question how your video in anyway explains cannons in fighter jets!! You where just showing off where you not?

 

[Shaitan]

Cannons are essential...

Nice, but it didn't show the 20 mm cannon LCH uses.

Only video I know of its this.


Share if you know any video of it.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

Yes, before and all you know pilot will put side-stand park the bike and sneak out of the cockpit, break the enemy pilots cockpit with a cricket bat and "sneak" back inside the cockpit.
Yes, it is so easy to doge the missile these days if he is rajanikanth. Usually pilot opens the cockpit window, looks at the rear view mirror and shoots at the missile with his pistol. Pilot Singam can also lift his aero plain and throw it at the enemy. What was i thinking your right Yatharth da...

Now thats not my problem if you arent aware of counter measures that are installed on a fighter. And as far as your 'Sneaking' jokes are concerned then first go and watch some old 2nd and 3rd generation fighter videos, you`ll understand of what SNEAK I was talking about.

And if it is so that cannon are of no use as of now then why dont give your VALUABLE thoughts to MoD. Maybe they would get more enlightened by it !

Other than that cannons are a waste of space and weight.

Cannons were never a waste of space or weight on a fighter. I wonder if some current or ex-servicemen here could explain this.

 

[ace009]

Now thats not my problem if you arent aware of counter measures that are installed on a fighter. And as far as your 'Sneaking' jokes are concerned then first go and watch some old 2nd and 3rd generation fighter videos, you`ll understand of what SNEAK I was talking about.

And if it is so that cannon are of no use as of now then why dont give your VALUABLE thoughts to MoD. Maybe they would get more enlightened by it !

Cannons were never a waste of space or weight on a fighter. I wonder if some current or ex-servicemen here could explain this.

The importance of Cannons on a fighter jet has been highlighted by the re-introduciton of the GAU-22/A cannon on F-35 B and C as an external pod. LMs effort to sell it as "cannons are not needed" did not fly well with the USN or the USMC.

 

[p2prada]

Cannons were never a waste of space or weight on a fighter. I wonder if some current or ex-servicemen here could explain this.

Cannons are heavy and the ammo stores are large. Once missiles are expended the aircraft will run away. Cannons will be used very very rarely because of the high amount of risk involved. Even a top gun can lose his life to a rookie because of that.

 

[ace009]

Cannons are heavy and the ammo stores are large. Once missiles are expended the aircraft will run away. Cannons will be used very very rarely because of the high amount of risk involved. Even a top gun can lose his life to a rookie because of that.

Actually in "dogfights", cannon kills are considered the ONLY "real kills" - I remember reading a report about BVRAAM claims (I think I posted it in one of the threads), where confirmed success rate was in the low 10%s, there are reports of WVRAAMs being only about 34% successful, while cannon "kills" are generally confirmed kills because of the proximity of the two fighters.
Also, cannon-based dogfights highlight the Pilots training and skills versus raw technological edge (better radar, better Countermeasures, better missiles etc). So a pilot having confirmed cannon kills are regarded as highly skilled ones.

 

[p2prada]

Actually in "dogfights", cannon kills are considered the ONLY "real kills" - I remember reading a report about BVRAAM claims (I think I posted it in one of the threads), where confirmed success rate was in the low 10%s, there are reports of WVRAAMs being only about 34% successful, while cannon "kills" are generally confirmed kills because of the proximity of the two fighters.
Also, cannon-based dogfights highlight the Pilots training and skills versus raw technological edge (better radar, better Countermeasures, better missiles etc). So a pilot having confirmed cannon kills are regarded as highly skilled ones.

It is possible that missiles may not live upto claims. Currently we know that cannons are in use and will be in use for the foreseeable future.

I also know about cannon kills being real kills in dog fights, I have posted the same before. Did you know that during medieval times the knights had little respect for archers because the way archers killed was not considered worthy of a warrior. But there was a reason why archers out lasted knights. The same way missiles are the next step in the evolution of air warfare. The reason why cannon kills are considered real kills is because it tests the limits of man's abilities while BVR kills depend mostly on technology. There is the added risk that debris from the aircraft shot down can damage your own aircraft.

Pilots are becoming dead weights in aircraft development. 6th gen is the future and by then cannons may become completely useless.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

I also know about cannon kills being real kills in dog fights

With all due respect, thats what I wanted you and G_K to understand.

I have posted the same before. Did you know that during medieval times the knights had little respect for archers because the way archers killed was not considered worthy of a warrior. But there was a reason why archers out lasted knights.

Warriors always have a special place in my heart. Especially historic warriors and soldiers because they fought their enemy hand to hand and eye to eye with extensively heavy body armor, heavy shields and none the less heavy sword or spears. And fighting one on one(or many) with such a load wasnt a simple task. No hiding no running for the sole reason that you cant do even that safely then. And for knights fighting so bravely with such heavy weight on them, it must be very frustrating for them to see their fellows dying by an arrow shot by a person with almost no armor and very little load from the cover and even sometimes by a physically weak but an excellent shooter too. Really frustrating that must be.

The same way missiles are the next step in the evolution of air warfare. The reason why cannon kills are considered real kills is because it tests the limits of man's abilities while BVR kills depend mostly on technology. There is the added risk that debris from the aircraft shot down can damage your own aircraft.

I completely understand your point of view that you extensively support and want to increase survivability but this doesnt justifies your comments that:-

cannons are a waste of space and weight.

And so from BVR stuff you also want a clear cut just like a sniper. Isnt it? But unlike on land, where sniper can see everyone but its not easy to catch him, why dont you understand that in air situations differ.

Now acually its noone`s fault because till now no two equally matched air powers have taken over each other. It was always between US vs Iraq, Afg.( which I think didnt have a proper air command),Libya. No question of being a fair game. You will see the time when your opponent also flies a stealth fighter with BVRAAM and more or less equally matched air command. At that time remember me . Even our both BELOVED neighbors carry that technology.

Pilots are becoming dead weights in aircraft development. 6th gen is the future and by then cannons may become completely useless.

Dont think so.
Pakistan is PLANNING such a thing similar to what you just said, to compete with either with FGFA or AMCA (not exactly remember which one).

Well no one is going anywhere and by god`s grace we all will live to see what happens to 6th gen.

 

[noob101]

It is possible that missiles may not live upto claims. Currently we know that cannons are in use and will be in use for the foreseeable future.

I also know about cannon kills being real kills in dog fights, I have posted the same before. Did you know that during medieval times the knights had little respect for archers because the way archers killed was not considered worthy of a warrior. But there was a reason why archers out lasted knights. The same way missiles are the next step in the evolution of air warfare. The reason why cannon kills are considered real kills is because it tests the limits of man's abilities while BVR kills depend mostly on technology. There is the added risk that debris from the aircraft shot down can damage your own aircraft.

Pilots are becoming dead weights in aircraft development. 6th gen is the future and by then cannons may become completely useless.

I agree pilots are more than dead weights in fighters, 6th generations air craft wont have any cannons or guns. It makes more sense to save the weight and space for more missiles or bombs, there is no use in having weapons that wont be used 99% of the time in an air craft that is expendable....

 

[Armand2REP]

Nice, but it didn't show the 20 mm cannon LCH uses.

There were two versions of M621 20mm and the THL turret was on the Tigre.

 

[ace009]

I agree pilots are more than dead weights in fighters, 6th generations air craft wont have any cannons or guns. It makes more sense to save the weight and space for more missiles or bombs, there is no use in having weapons that wont be used 99% of the time in an air craft that is expendable....

I have always wondered what it will take to jam the signals of a 6th gen fighter - in which case the aircraft is cut-off from the remote operator and is flying without pilot input (autopilot maybe?). In such a scenario, do you think the human pilot in a 5th gen plane is a dead weight?
If you think such complete all round jamming is not possible, think again - Something as powerful as a Flanker or a Growler can produce enough jamming power to wipe-out any incoming signal from a remote operator.

 

[Dovah]

..:: India Strategic ::. IAF: US offers Stinger missiles for India’s LCH

Raytheon's Business Development Manager for missile systems Brad Barnard told newsmen here that the Stinger AAM is already on board the Boeing Apache 64D which the Indian Air Force (IAF) is likely to buy. But the missile could also de deployed on board India's LCH and other helicopters used both by IAF and the Indian Army.
The Boeing Apache has been cleared by the US Government along with onboard Stingers, Lockheed Martin's Hellfire missiles and Northrop Grumman's Longbow radar. These powerful combat systems would need to be cleared again by the US State and Defense departments if India wants them for other aircraft or vehicles.
Barnard said: "We have offered the Stinger missile as part of weapons package with the Apache-64D offered by the US Government to the IAF's tender for 22 attack helicopters, but it should be available for IAF and Army helicopters.

 

[Tshering22]

Certification time lines are bit disappointing. I was hoping for IOC by late 2012 and FOC by 2014.

You should get used to long timelines after all these years with us and HAL .

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Whats the news on LCH, havent heard from it for a long time, i am not even sure if it flew after the initial maiden flight?

Total blackout.

 

[Shaitan]

LCH TD-2 modified for further testing.

TD-2 before modifications