HAL Light Observation Helicopter (LOH/LUH)

[Agantrope]

France never refused parts to India. We didn't embargo India with nuclear testing. We always stood by India. Now India jerks us around with these helicopter requests. It is protectionism.

I never know about the things that happened in the 1971 war scenario. But french always stood with us, but they also supplied pakistan . We cant depend always all for foreign supplies. May be for high technology things and all.

 

[Armand2REP]

I never know about the things that happened in the 1971 war scenario. But french always stood with us, but they also supplied pakistan . We cant depend always all for foreign supplies. May be for high technology things and all.

That isn't what India is doing. JLTV and replacement of INSAS is not high technology things.

 

[Agantrope]

That isn't what India is doing. JLTV and replacement of INSAS is not high technology things.

. Topic again derailed from LUH to INSAS replacement.

I said we cant depend. We need to develop an industrial base so that we can have some technology absorption. (I accept that today-tech is inferior) It is not going to happen tomorrow or day after tomorrow or next week. It requires a gradual amount of time and patience.

 

[bhogta]

France never refused parts to India. We didn't embargo India with nuclear testing. We always stood by India. Now India jerks us around with these helicopter requests. It is protectionism.

You always stood to your on country and nothing wrong in that.
1 Mirage 2000 up-gradation bill
2 Sakthi engine deal
3 Jf-17 up-gradation deal
4 Some experience I have my self, which are not good can't tell you.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Bhogta bhai!!! LCH ka asli baat kya hai? panchi ,kab udega?

I think we are very conservative, which is understandable because what is coming, is coming for very first time, so there are many pre flight tests, once, twice and many times, to make sure that nothing could go wrong. You know Venkat we can't afford lose of a manned flying object anytime during flight tests as in past it had led to program closer e.g Airawat, HF-74(supersonic version of Marut). This fact must be haunting designers mind before Thumbs-Up for first flight.

 

[venkat]

I am sorry, I can't tell you because of work ethic. But if you want i can tell you interesting stuff about helicopter.

please Tell me why ALH crashes if collective saturation takes place?

 

[Yusuf]

Members are requested not to ask questions to bhogta that he cannot answer both for security and work ethics related reasons.

 

[venkat]

yusuf! dont take it offensively!!! since he invited a question on helicopters ,just on the lighter side , i asked that question !!! Bhogta himself declared that he is from HAL!!!Be cautious bhogta in your replies... i hope you are aware of OSA!!!!

 

[Yusuf]

No offense taken mate. Just that we don't want to put bhogta in any awkward position. I am sure within his limits he will be able to shed light on various happenings with the helos. just don't push him. Thanks.

 

[Vinod2070]

I think its a good decision. We should have partnership only for futuristic high complexity projects.

This is something that can be done independently based on our existing capabilities. In fact such capabilities should now be shared with the private sector as much as possible and they should be allowed to develop it further.

 

[bhogta]

yusuf! dont take it offensively!!! since he invited a question on helicopters ,just on the lighter side , i asked that question !!! Bhogta himself declared that he is from HAL!!!Be cautious bhogta in your replies... i hope you are aware of OSA!!!!

Yes my dear friend I am from HAL. Even same division, which is working on helicopter. I am a designer in HAL RWR&DC.

About question means general knowledge based.

I know the answer of your question but don't know how to reply.

You asked a tricky question to me .

My answer let forget ALH just for any helicopter there is a limit of collective command ( there are four axis pitch , roll, collective and yaw) for main rotor blade. Some time when a pilot do a maneuver due to more command blade goes to stall (and helicopter start fallen ). At that time pilot have to be lose some height so its bring bake the helicopter back to non-stall position. Some time pilot loss confidence and start giving more collective to bring back the helicopter but that cause more saturation.this type of flight need smart pilot. This can be happen to any helicopter. If you read the news you find out that type event occurs when a helicopter doing this type of maneuver in low height due to that they don't have luxury to lose height for gain control again.

Next time just ask for helicopter. And i will try ti give answer if possible to me .

 

[bhogta]

In stall bald can't generate enough lift. you can read about stall phenomena in Google. this phenomena called Control saturation

 

[Vinod2070]

Bhogta, what was the end result of the Peru accident case? Was it found to be a pilot error unambiguously?

Are there any changes being planned in Dhruv as a result of those investigations?

 

[bhogta]

Bhogta, what was the end result of the Peru accident case? Was it found to be a pilot error unambiguously?

Are there any changes being planned in Dhruv as a result of those investigations?

Please i beg to you people not ask this type question. No HAL related question . I just want to enjoy this forum.

 

[Vinod2070]

I didn't want any internal knowledge, just what is available publicly.

Anyway, your wish will be respected.

 

[venkat]

Thanks bhogta for your explanation.!!!! if that is the case with every helo , then the helo pilot has to be very skillfull when he is flying at low altitudes. i hope new helicopters have fly by wire control system , so that the digital flight envelop control computer always monitors the stick input and compares against a safe flght envelope of a given craft and limits in case of dangerous manuvers!!!

 

[notinlove]

Bhogta, what was the end result of the Peru accident case? Was it found to be a pilot error unambiguously?

Are there any changes being planned in Dhruv as a result of those investigations?

IIRC , a saturation limit indicator is planned to be incorporated into all existing and new built dhruv's.

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ So right now, there is no way for a pilot to know if he is exceeding the saturation limit?

Is that so with most other helis as well?

 

[bhogta]

Thanks bhogta for your explanation.!!!! if that is the case with every helo , then the helo pilot has to be very skillfull when he is flying at low altitudes. i hope new helicopters have fly by wire control system , so that the digital flight envelop control computer always monitors the stick input and compares against a safe flght envelope of a given craft and limits in case of dangerous manuvers!!!

Yes every helicopter have this problem. But then different helicopter goes in saturation in different level of command basically depends upon there blade design. Its not that danger in low altitude flight its is that when you flying in low altitudes and doing some harsh or high maneuver then only troubles come and indeed pilots should be trend for that type flight. FWB for a helicopter not that easy as for fixed wing. And its will take great expertise in different filed like you should have better sensors and good knowledge of modeling of the plant. Good expertise in non-linear control field etc.

Helicopter are more unstable then fixed wing in general. They are more non-linear then fixed wing and there modeling is not that easy.

 

[bhogta]

^^ So right now, there is no way for a pilot to know if he is exceeding the saturation limit?

Is that so with most other helis as well?

Some helicopter have a warning system. And possible to design that all i can tell you.