HAL Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

Ajax01

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Can you give the ASQR... ??
What is the rate of production of LCH ?? How many can you give today by year-end and by next year's end?
Give me ten I will buy. If you can not give then why are you raising the sky on the head?

What is the demand position and by what time all demand will be met ?

Do you expect the LCH supplied today or those four existing today and those supplied after ten years will have the same configurations, same electronic suits, same weapons, same sensors and same datalink packages?

Then you live in a La La land.
Can you give ASQR ? Is it Open Source?
Depends on how much LCHs will be ordered. And will be known if IAF signs the deal. How did you know if they can or cannot if you didnt place the order in the first place? 5 LCHs are ready on HALs internal money and even till now IAF hasn't cleared its dues to HAL.
You can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that no one here is in on the internal negotiations of HAL and IAF. No one here will have that info.
Why will they be supplied 10 years later when the prospective order is only of 15 initially?
Why do indigenous products take a decade for testing (by Import Army and not development trials by DRDO something that deludes you)? While foreign maal get done with bare minimum or just factory trials?
If China shoots down the 20 odd apaches what will we do if US asks for 6 billion dollars for another 20? And says take it or leave it? Is Import Army ready to leave National Security to foreign govts whims and fancies? Are we ready to destroy our forex to fund the booze,foreign trips and girls of generals? Rank and file of the Armed Forces are steeped in corruption dozens of Brig rank and higher have been sent to prison for this and Gen Rawat talked about it but here we have ex soldier Bhadra jumping around from thread to thread chanting "What can Army do?". Don't glorify an org so much that it blinds your judgement.
 

Ajax01

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Guys this lch thread
Shouldn't be a person vs another...
Please avoid replying each other ,if you don't like....
And please don't use...bad languages...,..

@mods
@Shaitan @ezasa
If possible lock this thread for sometime
As you have seen I haven't said a single foul language against him. Its apalling such a person was in the Armed Forces. He has given no source for his astounding claims and hence goes for name calling and associating me with HAL. Better not waste my time on a retard.
 

noobmaster69

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Can you give the ASQR... ??
What is the rate of production of LCH ?? How many can you give today by year-end and by next year's end?
Give me ten I will buy. If you can not give then why are you raising the sky on the head?

What is the demand position and by what time all demand will be met ?

Do you expect the LCH supplied today or those four existing today and those supplied after ten years will have the same configurations, same electronic suits, same weapons, same sensors and same datalink packages?

Then you live in a La La land.
And you live in the import land. What orders? What demands? How many of them have even been ordered? How can you demand stuff without even ordering it? Go cry this sort of a logic out in front of the foriegn manufacturers that you worship and ask them to supply you stuff that you haven't even ordered yet even in limited numbers which were actually tailor made for you with a major chunk of the R&D being done with the company's internal funds, and they will laugh at your face. (not to mention the unpaid dues) Go spit your lobbyist venom somewhere else.
 

noobmaster69

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Can you give the ASQR... ??
What is the rate of production of LCH ?? How many can you give today by year-end and by next year's end?
Give me ten I will buy. If you can not give then why are you raising the sky on the head?

What is the demand position and by what time all demand will be met ?

Do you expect the LCH supplied today or those four existing today and those supplied after ten years will have the same configurations, same electronic suits, same weapons, same sensors and same datalink packages?

Then you live in a La La land.
For what it's worth btw... HAL is supplying 30 ALHs every year which have been working reliably well. See, I know its hard to get for you, but products can only be supplied when order are placed for it. Get well soon! 🙂
 

Ajax01

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You claimed you were in internal negotiation Committee... now you say something else.
You are free to call someone chor ,. foreign agents, name an orgainisation but is that is given back you start crying..

Tell me is LCH is not 90 percent foreign mal.. and 90 percent import forex based..
Tell me HAL has life long contract to supply parts and 100 odd foreign companies will keep you supplying parts., assemblies and components..

Tell me if it has not been a sixteen years project having reached nowhere..

Tell me which country in the world used such an expensive system for UAV hunting... is not Chheeeta WSI good for that...

Jabaradsti pele Ja rahe ho.. Gali khud use karate ho .. Childish brats..
Seriously an honest question: are you a retard? I have claimed I am in the internal negotiations of Hal? Quote where I have claimed that.
I have called you chor and foreign agent? There is enough cases where procurement officers have stolen and acted against the country's interest. I see you are like a mullah normal etiquette of society is wasted on you. Very well i will speak to unprincipled idiots like you in a similar manner.
Put a source for your claim of 90%. Do you know Tejas is now 80% Indian and efforts are being made to incorporate the rest too. LCH will follow a similar trend. Will Iaf pay their due it gets ? They haven't till now. Will it have to have 100 percent indian from get go? Will China even have a armed force if they did so? Will any country be self sufficient like that?
Out of 16 yrs how many has been in user trials? How long did it take? How long did user trials take for Apache? How long does user trials of Atgm take ? How will anyone integrate it without clearing user trials? Who is in charge of user trials? Drdo or Army?
Pelna tha toh pel deta. Jhaat kiyu jal raha he russian mila nahi kya? Last jisko Russian mila tha pura Tejas ka Development budget se zada paisa putin ke pocket me dal diya. Woh bhi deshpremi tha lol
 

charlie

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It's never that straightforward. The way it works is: Company A wants to sell its wares to IAF. So they hire a lobbying firm. Now this firm also employs retired Indian army-men and retired MoD personnel who still have "connections." So they get their pay from the firm, while putting in a good word for the weapons system. Ultimately a price is quoted, but that price includes the fees paid to the lobbying firm, along with the profits to the manufacturer. That is why the cost of each Apache helicopter comes to 155 million. The actual manufacturing cost is far less.
I have nothing against the Apache; it's a fine machine. But when you deploy a heavy chopper like the Apache at high altitude, its weapons-load becomes very less, because its engines lose power at high altitude. THAT is the current problem with the Apache deployment in Ladakh. Sure you can deploy it, but it will only carry 1 rocket pod and 2 missiles, because it was not designed from scratch for operating in high altitudes.
The LCH can actually carry more than the Apache when operating at higher altitudes, because it was designed to do that. And yet even the LSP order for the LCH has not been finalized yet. They ordered an imported air-to-air missile for the Rudra and LCH, why couldn't the MoD/army also order a foreign ATGM as a stopgap?

About the Helina/Dhruvastra: The Helina would've worked fine in Ladakh but was rejected after a trial in Jaisalmer in which its first iteration seeker missed 1 out 3 targets. And that was in the hottest month in Rajasthan where they tested it against a camouflaged target with its engines off and sitting out in the desert sun for a long time so that the target was the exact same temperature as the desert around it. All foreign ATGM with IIR seekers of that generation would also have had trouble against such a target, because IIR seekers do not do well in such a high heat situation. Instead of rejecting it outright, the MoD/army could've accepted it in a limited role for high altitude areas, while the DRDO worked to improve the seeker for the desert. The Dhruvastra, the follow-up to the Helina, has an improved higher resolution seeker which works fine in the desert camouflaged situation.
Again I don't know how much you know about US sale of weapons and it's policy, I worked for a firm which sells weapons to both India and Pakistan. In US and Canada sale of weapon sale are quite strict.

In Europe it's a different ball game, I met few of those retired military personal in Minsk which you talk about.

But I can assure you this there was no corruption done on Apache, or as a matter of fact any US deal done through FMS route. The cost of 155 million is cost of the deal.. Cost is based on customer requirements, it's the same cost that US airforce will get if it buys the same load out as the Indian airforce asked. A same heli can cost 200 depending on the deal, people just don't understand here a same heli can cost 200 million too depending on how much training, shipping, weapons, spares and how many years of maintenance contract and support is added. Every deal is different.

With thin air lift will always be an issue, and you should not compare an apache to LCH both are different class of heli.

The below accident happened before of lift issue, high altitude.
 

Sridhar_TN

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You claimed you were in internal negotiation Committee... now you say something else.
You are free to call someone chor ,. foreign agents, name an orgainisation but is that is given back you start crying..

Tell me is LCH is not 90 percent foreign mal.. and 90 percent import forex based..
Tell me HAL has life long contract to supply parts and 100 odd foreign companies will keep you supplying parts., assemblies and components..

Tell me if it has not been a sixteen years project having reached nowhere..

Tell me which country in the world used such an expensive system for UAV hunting... is not Chheeeta WSI good for that...

Jabaradsti pele Ja rahe ho.. Gali khud use karate ho .. Childish brats..
As you have seen I haven't said a single foul language against him. Its apalling such a person was in the Armed Forces. He has given no source for his astounding claims and hence goes for name calling and associating me with HAL. Better not waste my time on a retard.
@Ajax01. It’s sad right. You would think for someone who’s ‘supposedly’ been in the armed forces, they would exhibit a certain class and discipline. Guess it’s a thing for people to wear their ego’s on the sleeve and talk like a 6 year old.
 
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Sridhar_TN

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Again I don't know how much you know about US sale of weapons and it's policy, I worked for a firm which sells weapons to both India and Pakistan. In US and Canada sale of weapon sale are quite strict.

In Europe it's a different ball game, I met few of those retired military personal in Minsk which you talk about.

But I can assure you this there was no corruption done on Apache, or as a matter of fact any US deal done through FMS route. The cost of 155 million is cost of the deal.. Cost is based on customer requirements, it's the same cost that US airforce will get if it buys the same load out as the Indian airforce asked. A same heli can cost 200 depending on the deal, people just don't understand here a same heli can cost 200 million too depending on how much training, shipping, weapons, spares and how many years of maintenance contract and support is added. Every deal is different.

With thin air lift will always be an issue, and you should not compare an apache to LCH both are different class of heli.

The below accident happened before of lift issue, high altitude.
So a correction to your video here. This did not just happen because of thin air. The pilot here was showing off and banking too steep at low altitude. There was an incident report on this that I read in an article. The pilot was suspended I think.

 

charlie

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So a correction to your video here. This did not just happen because of thin air. The pilot here was showing off and banking too steep at low altitude. There was an incident report on this that I read in an article. The pilot was suspended I think.

Actually an investigation report would be best rather then assumption by news media you read that and I read this https://www.longwarjournal.org/videos/2012/03/apache_crash_in_paktika.php

maybe I am wrong but would helpful if we can find an investigation report
 
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Sridhar_TN

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Actually an investigation report would be best rather then assumption by news media you read that and I read this https://www.longwarjournal.org/videos/2012/03/apache_crash_in_paktika.php

maybe I am wrong but would help if we can find an investigation report
Thanks for the link. It actually confirms my previous postulation that the pilot banked too hard.
Again, as per the article this is supposedly done for displaying American power and boosting morale close to the ground.
There was no need for the pilot to do that that close to the ground just to spirit up the mood of the troops on the ground.
 

charlie

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Thanks for the link. It actually confirms my previous postulation that the pilot banked too hard.
Again, as per the article this is supposedly done for displaying American power and boosting morale close to the ground.
There was no need for the pilot to do that that close to the ground just to spirit up the mood of the troops on the ground.
I guess you missed this in the article?

“Though the incident is still under investigation, early reports suggest the pilot banked too hard for the thin air, and lost sufficient lift under the rotors“

Or we are having ego problems ! I am not the type of guy who will have long discussion based on speculation without a real report, if you think you right well then it’s all good.

I hope Greek took your advice would have saved an heli
Read more: https://www.longwarjournal.org/videos/2012/03/apache_crash_in_paktika.php#ixzz6UxR58I00
 

Sanatani

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In 2014, a note from Christian Michel to Peter Hullet was recovered in which the former had asked the latter to target people close to Sonia Gandhi to clench the deal.

The list included the names of Manmohan Singh, Ahmed Patel, Pranab Mukherjee, M Veerappa Moily, Oscar Fernandes, M K Narayanan and Vinay Singh.

The note consisted of payments which were divided in four parts carrying initials of "AF" (Air Force) 6 million, "BUR" (bureaucrats) 8.4 million, "Pol" (politicians) 6 million and "AP" (alleged to be Ahmed Patel) to be paid 3 million Euro.
The air Force officers were as corrupt as the politicians and bureaucrats . This is from an article on Augusta Westland scam.

 

VIP

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This shows that IAF is happy with the machine. The primary platform is important, IAF knows it by now, LCH can swiftly work in high altitudes where our forces operate in combat most of the times. The weapons are important but the machine is formidable and so ATGM integration will be done without any doubt. The delay of integration is because of DRDO insisting indigenous ATGM, it will be integrated in near future. The basic weaponry which is used in mountain warfare is already there. This platform will be inducted in large numbers as the interest shown by IAF here is remarkable.
 

Sridhar_TN

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This shows that IAF is happy with the machine. The primary platform is important, IAF knows it by now, LCH can swiftly work in high altitudes where our forces operate in combat most of the times. The weapons are important but the machine is formidable and so ATGM integration will be done without any doubt. The delay of integration is because of DRDO insisting indigenous ATGM, it will be integrated in near future. The basic weaponry which is used in mountain warfare is already there. This platform will be inducted in large numbers as the interest shown by IAF here is remarkable.
True, compare the LCH with the Turkish attack heli and the cChinese one.
Which is better in what respect, we know the Turkish one is heavily dependent on foreign imports including American engines. The Chinese ones, not so sure.

As far as the IAF is concerned, they’re pleased with the lch so far. I still feel The production line be outsourced to a private player for quality’s sake. When the spike ER is integrated, this thing will complement the Apache so well. Like I said before, for the first time, Indian armed forces will be CAS heavy. And I’ve said this for a long time. The LCH does not need a bigger gun, it needs more countermeasure systems for MANPADS.
 

johnq

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Just learned that the LCH can fire the R-73 missile, the same missile Abhinandan used to shoot down the Pakistani F-16.👍
 

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