HAL HJT-36 Sitara

farhan_9909

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Re: HAL's HJT-36 Sitara Project Struggling

you know it wont materialize. and moreover if india will buy it then it will buy directly from china
well even from china would be a good choice

many countries operates k-8 and is a bang for the bucks
 

p2prada

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If that is the case, why can't we just manufacture more kirans as stopgaps till sitara achieves operational capability??? Why go for foreign planes?
IAF is going for foreign aircraft because HAL is not able to deliver. Kiran is an old platform, it is logical that IAF goes for more, but it does not have new gen avionics that will help pilots transition to modern aircraft. Sitara is supposed to remove that problem, but it is late.

HPT-32 was a failure as a basic trainer and IAF is going for a foreign aircraft because of immediate needs. HAL will develop one eventually, but this will take time.

Anyway the IAF is growing fast, so there will be a greater need for trainers in the future. We may see a mix of Indian and foreign trainer aircraft in the future.

well even from china would be a good choice

many countries operates k-8 and is a bang for the bucks
Sitara is delayed by a year, two at worst. It is not a problem as big as dumping it for a new aircraft. While IAF hoped to use both Kiran and Sitara together for sometime, it looks like it won't happen now. IAF will now have to replace Kirans with Sitaras as the Kirans are phased out.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: HAL's HJT-36 Sitara Project Struggling

well even from china would be a good choice

many countries operates k-8 and is a bang for the bucks
We get Bae hawk as AJT but can also use as IJT..

Sitara is suppose to supplement Hawks..
 

venkat

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I never understood one thing. HAL kiran is a basic trainer whereas Sitara is an intermediate one. Then how can sitara replace kiran??
Kiran is not a basic trainer. HPT-32 is the basic abinitio trainer which is piston Engined,where as Kiran is jet powered a/c...
 

venkat

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Re: HAL's HJT-36 Sitara Project Struggling

p2p!!! from the above its clear that IJT has issues with engines. original LARZAC was replaced with NPO AL-55I..though the new engine has higher thrust it might have increased overall weight phenomenally..so IJT needs weight reduction..it flight controls have been re-designed it appears for a better response...it needs to pass the spin recovery tests....why dont we take the help of yak-130 designers or the EADS M-346 to solve the problems quickly, provided the tech help is available ,of course at a price... IAF should sit on HAL's head.!!!!
 

SATISH

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Re: HAL's HJT-36 Sitara Project Struggling

p2p!!! from the above its clear that IJT has issues with engines. original LARZAC was replaced with NPO AL-55I..though the new engine has higher thrust it might have increased overall weight phenomenally..so IJT needs weight reduction..it flight controls have been re-designed it appears for a better response...it needs to pass the spin recovery tests....why dont we take the help of yak-130 designers or the EADS M-346 to solve the problems quickly, provided the tech help is available ,of course at a price... IAF should sit on HAL's head.!!!!
Last time I heard it failed the spin tests. The Al-55I has sufficient thrust.
 

p2prada

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Re: HAL's HJT-36 Sitara Project Struggling

p2p!!! from the above its clear that IJT has issues with engines. original LARZAC was replaced with NPO AL-55I..though the new engine has higher thrust it might have increased overall weight phenomenally..so IJT needs weight reduction..it flight controls have been re-designed it appears for a better response...it needs to pass the spin recovery tests....why dont we take the help of yak-130 designers or the EADS M-346 to solve the problems quickly, provided the tech help is available ,of course at a price... IAF should sit on HAL's head.!!!!
Satish mentions that too, spin recovery tests.

Anyway it can't be helped. Things don't always go according to plan. But at least HAL's projects are not a complete disaster like other DPSUs.

I don't really know what IAF is doing regarding this. Hopefully they are doing much more than that considering how bad the training issues are now, especially with all the downgrades to pilot training time.

EADS is already involved in quite a few of our projects, like LCA. I think they were involved in our UAV designs too because I remember my friend giving a presentation to EADS scientists for some of our designs.

Anyway, do you know something about the HJT-39, seems like an interesting project? I think DRDO wants to compete with the LIFT program, LCA based trainer. Dunno what's happening though.
 

SATISH

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Re: HAL's HJT-36 Sitara Project Struggling

Oh! Haha. Speak of the Devil.
The HJT 39 or the CAT-39 was a proposed idea of HAL/ADA as a LIFT but it never took off from the drawing board. But I think the LCA trainer might fulfill that requirement in a much better way. But we ended up buying a lot more Hawk AJT and the navy is also interested in the Goshawk program. So I dont think it is something that is getting out of the drawing board any time soon.
 

p2prada

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Re: HAL's HJT-36 Sitara Project Struggling

The HJT 39 or the CAT-39 was a proposed idea of HAL/ADA as a LIFT but it never took off from the drawing board. But I think the LCA trainer might fulfill that requirement in a much better way. But we ended up buying a lot more Hawk AJT and the navy is also interested in the Goshawk program. So I dont think it is something that is getting out of the drawing board any time soon.
I agree, all of our trainers are new orders or will be once Sitara is done.

Damn, if ADA was any faster maybe the trainer version of LCA could have seen a potential USAF operator, maybe even USN. Both Mk1 designs for the Navy and Air Force fit the description of a trainer that they need for their T-X program.

USAF set to take next step on T-38 replacement



The T-50's and LCA's specs are the same. Could have been a good choice for the USAF.

Unlike the other competitors LCA is fully supersonic and extremely cheap for the capability it brings to the table. I am pretty sure it can be customized to USAF specifications with their need for information training for transition to 5th gen aircraft.

They need 350-1000 aircraft, so that will bring in a lot of moolah for DRDO and HAL. The Hawk costs the same as what a combat capable LCA would be too, maybe cheaper, if such high numbers are produced in both India and the US.

Who knows? The T-X is already delayed, perhaps...
 

Defcon 1

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why does T-50 has significantly higher thrust than others? Is there any advantage of training on such a heavy trainer (and probably expensive too) as compared to other smaller ones?
 

p2prada

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why does T-50 has significantly higher thrust than others? Is there any advantage of training on such a heavy trainer (and probably expensive too) as compared to other smaller ones?
The M-346, Hawk and T-50, cost the same. I think the M-346 will be cheaper because it is an extension of the already developed Russian Yak-130. Some reports they said M-346 is the top contender.

T-50, as a trainer is far superior or you can say overkill for training needs. Quite like LCA. But considering American pilots trained on F-16s before moving on to F-22s would mean their training needs for rookie pilots are as good as what we need from trained pilots on LCA/Mirage-2000 etc before moving to F-22s.

The biggest problem in transitioning to 5th gen aircraft has always been about how well the humongous amount of information is taught to pilots. You can say that without information training the pilots are as good as what we have on our own force for 4th gen aircraft.

So, you can say the USAF is bringing pilots to the level of our MKI's Weapons Systems Officers before being given F-22s and, in the future, F-35s.
 

venkat

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p2p!!! There was a mock up of CAT-39 displayed during aero india 2007 if i am correct. later it was mentioned that HAL had to scrap it as IAF had shown no interest in it...There ended the matter for HJT-39 aka CAT( comabt attack trainer)...

DECCAN HERALD Sunday, December 19, 2004


HAL may build Combat Attack Trainer for IAF

The CAT would have an enhanced twin engine, advanced stage operations and more capabilities than the Hawks.

BANGALORE, DHNS:


Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is contemplating building a twin-engine Combat Attack Trainer (CAT) for the Indian Air Force, which will be a trainer aircraft to fill the gap between the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas and the Advanced Jet Trainer Hawk, said the new Chairman of HAL Ashok Baweja.

Addressing media persons in Bangalore for the first time since he took over as the chairman of the public sector unit, Mr Baweja said on Saturday that the CAT would have an enhanced twin engine with a much larger fuselage and wing span.

It would have very advanced stage operations with much higher altitude and much higher acceleration capabilities, he added. The conceptual agreement between IAF and HAL was already through with a fore-view of 20 years, Mr Baweja said. Once on the design board the project is expected to be completed within 39 months. The CAT would have more capabilities than the Hawks, he added.

Front line fighter

On LCA's, Mr Baweja said the tests on the three prototypes of the multi-role supersonic aircraft which had been manufactured to meet the stringent requirements of a front line tactical fighter aircraft was on and over 300 flights had been completed so far.

One more prototype, the PV2 was scheduled to be rolled out before March 2005, he said. Mr Baweja further said that HAL had already launched the limited series production of LCA with its first delivery scheduled for 2007.

He said the two Jaguar trainer and strike variants belonging to the first batch, which were directly imported by the IAF had been upgraded with modern nav-attack systems and an indigenously designed and developed mission computer.

The series upgradation of MiG 21 BIS with a secure communication system, radar altimeter had also commenced. He added that the flight evaluation on the first series of MiG 27 upgrades was scheduled to commence next year.

He said that the HAL had an order of Rs 18,000 crore, an overhauling order of Rs 2,000 crore and Rs 400 crore export order from the Airbus in the current financial year.

The company had so far produced 35 Advanced Light Helicopters (DHRUV) of which two had been exported to Nepal and one was to be shipped to Israel this month.

The military utility variants and the civil variants had been certified and were presently under series production, he said. The weaponisation of the ALH platform is currently under way for the army and naval variants and the flight trials with various role equipment systems are progressing well, he added...
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p2prada

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Not unexpected because IAF ended up buying Hawks, but that was a pending request since decades.

Oh well! Maybe IAF will be interested in a LIFT program for PAKFA and AMCA, unless IAF believes Hawk is more than enough.

This is what is disappointing. We have to export trainers even now. I would primarily blame our lack of engine R&D for it.

Seems like Sitara will be our only "Indian" trainer for the next 2 decades.
 

p2prada

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Just go with T-100
Aren't the Italians smart!

The Koreans developed the T-50 to replace their T-38 trainer.

In turn, the Italians and Russians slightly modified the Yak-130 called it the M-346 in Italy and are calling it the T-100 in the US and are selling it as a successor to the T-38. If USAF purchases the T-100, the order will be massive and will make the Hawk look like a Duck. Once the USAF buys, a whole host of other nations will buy the T-100 too, especially all the F-35 users.

Shows that even aircraft name and designation is used for aggressive marketing.

Russians will take home quite a bit of the price too, considering the T-100 is a JV.
 

venkat

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^^^ May Your dreams of seeing " sitara" as trainer for the next two decades come true!!!:taunt1:
 

p2prada

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^^^ May Your dreams of seeing " sitara" as trainer for the next two decades come true!!!:taunt1:
Haha! Isn't it funny how people who are intimately involved with the defence industry(like you, Ray sir, Lemontree) or even have an inkling of going on's of the defence industry(like Satish and I) have no hopes in it while those who have no idea are such amazing optimists even if facts speak otherwise.

In many other countries, I am pretty sure the exact opposite happens. What irony!!!:cool2:
 

p2prada

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It looks like a scan from a brochure and the brochure was folded prior to scanning.
 

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