HAL Advanced Light Helicopter Dhruv

[Bhurki]

Just started reading the article, posting mid-way through it.



Commenting on this point, author should have mentioned that, along with the width, there is a regulation/ cut off for length of helicopter under stowage/ in hanger of the ship. This regulation is dependent on the length of the hanger of the ship.

As HAL proposed a compromise solution for width issue, the solution being, that two blades rotate back ( third being already in 6 'o' clock position) while the front facing blade remain facing forward.

This, solution however defaulted on another count, the length regulation ( from the tip of the (non folded) front blade to tip of the tail boom). Thus, someone for HAL or MoD suggested to cut a hole in the front face of the hanger, so that, the front blade projects out from the front hole, thus length regulation is met. ( By increasing the hanger length by hook or crook as the length regulation is dependent on hanger length)

As a non- solution it was, it was rejected ( could it have been accepted? ). Thus HAL presented another solution, folding tail boom. The model of ALH with folding tail boom was presented in DefExpo2020.

Now, without stating about length regulation, the author is increasing the confusion among the common man, the intended addressee.

AEROINDIA 2019

This is very very worrying, If its true. I read somewhere else that close coupled canards aren't a new idea on lca though. That is his understanding , Ada did lot of studies before arriving at the present solution, I even posted the paper on the said study . The primary reason for including...

defenceforumindia.com

Read it all.
He has explicitly stated that a max constraint on width was put to be 3.6m, which was then revised to 5.4m, even then HAL design required hangar width of 5.6m.
For the 4th rotor to be left in unchanged poaition, they literally were asked to cut a hole in the ship fore of the hangar (!!).
Lets not even talk about the water leaking into the cabin, tail rotor assembly breakdown, engine cowl design, replacing LRU parts from other units without documentation, buying vibration dampener in addition to design to even achieve operational NVH level etc thats mentioned by him.

 

[ladder]

Read it all.
He has explicitly stated that a max constraint on width was put to be 3.6m, which was then revised to 5.4m, even then HAL design required hangar width of 5.6m.
For the 4th rotor to be left in unchanged poaition, they literally were asked to cut a hole in the ship fore of the hangar (!!).
Lets not even talk about the water leaking into the cabin, tail rotor assembly breakdown, engine cowl design, replacing LRU parts from other units without documentation, buying vibration dampener in addition to design to even achieve operational NVH level etc thats mentioned by him.

For the 4th rotor to be left in unchanged poaition, they literally were asked to cut a hole in the ship fore of the hangar (!!).

Why? Because when 4th ( front facing) blade is kept un changed, the length of the helicopter is greater that 13.5m which was the limit. Therefore the cut the hole solution.
How would the readers know if the author doesn't mention that length exceeded max permissible length of 13.5 m when front ( 4th) blade is kept facing forward and not rotated backwards.

I am not refuting what he is saying, but only the thing that he could have explained in better terms.

 

[garg_bharat]

Its more about the work culture thats worrying when you read the examples given by the Ret.Commander. I'm not sure whether 6 years is enough to change that culture.

Work culture can change in 6 days forget 6 years if political dispensation is correct. However this is India and everything is slow. Even slow and steady is better than nothing at all.

 

[garg_bharat]

Why? Because when 4th ( front facing) blade is kept un changed, the length of the helicopter is greater that 13.5m which was the limit. Therefore the cut the hole solution.
How would the readers know if the author doesn't mention that length exceeded max permissible length of 13.5 m when front ( 4th) blade is kept facing forward and not rotated backwards.

I am not refuting what he is saying, but only the thing that he could have explained in better terms.

There is merit in author's contentions; but that was the time when imports ruled and HAL was also highly politicized.

Many problems are systemic. And often stem from kind of leadership country has.

However we need to get moving as the World is getting dangerous.

 

[ladder]

Read it all.
He has explicitly stated that a max constraint on width was put to be 3.6m, which was then revised to 5.4m, even then HAL design required hangar width of 5.6m.
For the 4th rotor to be left in unchanged poaition, they literally were asked to cut a hole in the ship fore of the hangar (!!).
Lets not even talk about the water leaking into the cabin, tail rotor assembly breakdown, engine cowl design, replacing LRU parts from other units without documentation, buying vibration dampener in addition to design to even achieve operational NVH level etc thats mentioned by him.

Read it to a fair degree. Didn't finish reading it . Why? Because of the large sweeping statements used.

The incidents and anecdotes may be correct but if the emotion behind writing the piece was 'how could HAL spokesperson refute the former CNS on an open forum, I would expose them.'
Then it does a poor job. With sweeping statements, you already lost a reader who is mildly/ moderately interested in this content (me). Let alone capturing the attention of common man who knows nothing about Dhruv Naval and only reading due to the public spat.

Good effort, but would not achive the desired objective of explaining to the crowd why former CNS was critical against HAL.

Will be lost in the archives.

 

[Bhurki]

Read it to a fair degree. Didn't finish reading it . Why? Because of the large sweeping statements used.

The incidents and anecdotes may be correct but if the emotion behind writing the piece was 'how could HAL spokesperson refute the former CNS on an open forum, I would expose them.'
Then it does a poor job. With sweeping statements, you already lost a reader who is mildly/ moderately interested in this content (me). Let alone capturing the attention of common man who knows nothing about Dhruv Naval and only reading due to the public spat.

Good effort, but would not achive the desired objective of explaining to the crowd why former CNS was critical against HAL.

Will be lost in the archives.

I'd rather take the advice of a 1st Naval ALH flight instructor and IN Commander than the PR of HAL.
Mind pointing out the 'sweeping statements'?

 

[ladder]

I'd rather take the advice of a 1st Naval ALH flight instructor and IN Commander than the PR of HAL.
Mind pointing out the 'sweeping statements'?

Good for you if you didn't find any sweeping statements.
Not my job to explicitly point out.
You liked it. Good for you. A person has full right to accept advise ( was there any? ) from anyone he/she feels right.
I have presented my views. Never said or intended your view will match with mine.

 

[Bhurki]

Good for you if you didn't find any sweeping statements.
Not my job to explicitly point out.
You liked it. Good for you. A person has full right to accept advise ( was there any? ) from anyone he/she feels right.
I have presented my views. Never said or intended your view will match with mine.

You said some 'sweeping statements' made you uninterested. I'm intrigued to know if i might have missed some intended view of the said writer.
So, could you please elaborate or was it just a sweeping statement on your part to pass the criticism of the officer under the rug.

 

[Coalmine]

waiting for HAL's reply.
Tejas was called 3 legged cheetah and what not. Today its getting inducted in numbers.
HAL work Culture is slowly improving.
Rather we need a views of from present ALH pilots of ALH mark3

 

[ladder]

You said some 'sweeping statements' made you uninterested. I'm intrigued to know if i might have missed some intended view of the said writer.
So, could you please elaborate or was it just a sweeping statement on your part to pass the criticism of the officer under the rug.

was it just a sweeping statement on your part to pass the criticism of the officer under the rug.

That's why I have said, who couldn't get the sweeping statements after reading the article or doesn't consider them sweeping statements will be unable to even when pointed out explicitly.
If I wanted to reply to the officers's statements, I would have without you calling me to.
Keep an eye, somebody may do. Or may not. Suppliers are are accustomed to customer's rant.

And for the part quoted, it's your choice. You can view it and interpret any way you like. If you think I used a sweeping statement against the retd. Officer, again your choice your interpretation. Not my job to bring you over to my side or make an effort for convergence of opinion.
My last in this.

That's why my opening statement to you. You liked the article, good for you.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

The reality is that Naval ALH requires a Different Rotor assembly which will permit folding rotors. Hal is avoiding this issue for 35 years.

 

[Bhadra]

Wow, so many interesting facts and news about ALH.

Yes specially two blades at six o clock...

 

[Bhadra]

The reality is that Naval ALH requires a Different Rotor assembly which will permit folding rotors. Hal is avoiding this issue for 35 years.

There at least ten issues with bath machine ;

Al up wight
Operational time and ranges..
Folding blades
Electronics

Etc etc...

 

[ezsasa]

@Bhadra @ladder refrain from derailing the thread.. this is a warning..

 

[ladder]

@Bhadra @ladder refrain from derailing the thread.. this is a warning..

 

[ladder]

You said some 'sweeping statements' made you uninterested. I'm intrigued to know if i might have missed some intended view of the said writer.
So, could you please elaborate or was it just a sweeping statement on your part to pass the criticism of the officer under the rug.

If I wanted to reply to the officers's statements, I would have without you calling me to.
Keep an eye, somebody may do. Or may not. Suppliers are are accustomed to customer's rant.

Probably you might be interested

NAVY-DHRUV SPAT: Let's Stop Fighting, HAL Test Pilot Says

After angry exchange between naval veterans and HAL, top test pilot responds in detail, calls for calm and unity of purpose.

www.livefistdefence.com

Offered without comments.

 

[no smoking]

Work culture can change in 6 days forget 6 years if political dispensation is correct. However this is India and everything is slow. Even slow and steady is better than nothing at all.

Changing work culture in 6 days? Only possible if you point a gun at everyone's head.
What is showing the work culture? PEOPLE. People is not computer that you can change the performance by downloading a new app. The work culture is built up by the training/education that people received since their childhood. You simply can't change them. It is like you will never ask Chinese to work with Japanese style attention to detail or Germans to work with French flexibility. The only way to change the work culture is replacing most of them.

 

[BON PLAN]

Ambiance....

Speaking about HAL’s move to push the Dhruv helicopter to meet the Indian Navy’s shipborne naval utility helicopter (NUH) requirement after 30 years of non-compliance, Admiral Prakash, a decorated fixed-wing aviator, called HAL ‘lethargic, deadbeat’, a company that had ‘failed to show initiative’ and one that deserved a ‘rap on the knuckles’.

Angry HAL Replies To ex-Navy Chief's 'Dhruv' Attack

Livefist's interview with Admiral Arun Prakash irks HAL, sparks response that lays bare the sad tale of the naval Dhruv.

www.livefistdefence.com

 

[Assassin 2.0]

With 300+ ALH Dhruv helicopters, it is undoubtedly a workhorse of the services. Further developments like LCH and LUH would also get inducted into services in the near future.

Varying views are part of the evolution of the huge indigenous industry of military helicopters.
( take word's of ex airforce pilots with pinch of salt many of them are currently employed by Boeing LM and other foreign companies.)

 

[Coalmine]

good video from Hal CHIEF