First export of the LCH to Sri Lanka?

[tarunraju]

Gentlemen, I understand that anything pro-Sri Lanka will be hurtful to Tamil people for a long time to come, but we have to control that in the interest of the discussion at hand, we are primarily a military forum.

Those asuras will pay for what they did to Tamils, but let us reserve our outbursts for the relevant thread, not this one.

 

[Param]

Gentlemen, I understand that anything pro-Sri Lanka will be hurtful to Tamil people for a long time to come, but we have to control that in the interest of the discussion at hand, we are primarily a military forum.

Those asuras will pay for what they did to Tamils, but let us reserve our outbursts for the relevant thread, not this one.

I agree if that is about SL Tamils but this fellow is Accusing Indian Tamilians( all those who vote for DMK) of Treason.

He is justifying the killing of Indian fishermen for their alleged supply of weapons to terrorists despite the fact that there is no one left to supply weapons to.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3520/...5da5e5fd_m.jpg

 

[tarunraju]

I agree if that is about SL Tamils but this fellow is Accusing Indian Tamilians( all those who vote for DMK) of Treason.

He is justifying the killing of Indian fishermen for their alleged supply of weapons to terrorists despite the fact that there is no one left to supply weapons to.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. Ace009 was merely suggesting a way to protect our fishermen (and interests), by trapping Lanka into a carrot-stick using LCH. It is a tried and tested formula adopted by US and Europe against Randomistans, and it's always fetched results. Lanka will go soft on Indian fishermen, and support Indian interests. It's a win-win.

 

[Param]

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. Ace009 was merely suggesting a way to protect our fishermen, by trapping Lanka into a carrot-stick using LCH. It is a tried and tested formula adopted by US and Europe against Randomistans, and it's always fetched results. Lanka will go soft on Indian fishermen, and support Indian interests. It's a win-win.

"So, you want to create another enemy out of SL because SL navy might be involved in killing Indian fishermen? You know the story from their side? You know that in the guise of fishermen, Indian tamil sympathizers of LTTE (yes, tamils voting for DMK) were straying into SL waters and supplying weapons to LTTE for about 20 years?"

^^^This is from his previous post

This is obviously not about protecting fishermen. This is a generalised statement made by him against al Tamilians who vote for DMK.

I believe a lot of anti national stuff was happening 20 years ago but why is he justifying the continuos killings of Indians even after 2009???
Does he have proof of any such smuggling happening between 1991 and 1996 or 2001 and 2006?
Such generalised stupid accusations are uncalled for.
Does he mean to say that such activities were happening during Jaya's rule also??? If he is saying that this happened for 20 years from TN he is also implying that Jaya's govt is also involved.

 

[ace009]

Temper temper temper. You want proof? I can give you proof, but I am sure it would not convince you. But I agree, we should not get sidetracked with SL navy and fishermen. Why don't we discuss this elsewhere? Start a thread in the forum and I will respond - let's keep this to LCH sale to SL.

Name calling and cursing - MODS - are we allowing this nowadays? I thought the forum was for discussions and debate not for personal insult.

LOL -

See - when you start off by insulting others, you must be prepared to be insulted too. Go back to the threads and you would see that I have not insulted you or your family before this - even now I have not called them any name, whereas you have routinely personally insulted me, starting off with a veiled insult at me having to sit behind a computer and calling on our Fishermen being expendable. Which I never did.
But, you sanctimonious lout, you are ready to take insult at anything and everything - here is your world view in a nutshell - You first, then your family, then your caste, then your religion, then your state (TN - right?), then your country - India etc etc ...
I on the otherhand do not think myself that way - I am a human being first, then an Indian, then whatever state me/ my parents belong to, then my family (no place for caste and religion for me - sorry there).

I also deal with facts and not with raw emotions and immature rants.
So go ahead - state your case against the LCH sale to SL, I have alerady done the reverse, and will do so again.

MODS - please check the threads and tell us who is being an ass in this thread.

I am a Tamalian and i dont sympathizers with LTTE and not everyone who crosses the strait is an LTTE supplier, lot of them are fishermen. If you generalize everyone then you lack understanding of the situation.

However i wont respond in this thread.

I expect better than this from you - read my posts and tell me if I was trashing ALL tamilians or insulting anyone in particular.

 

[Param]

Right - holier than thou Mr Param - thanks for the personal hits.
Let's see - have you heard the term "for greater good"? Or the famous saying "An eye for an eye ... leaves the whole world blind"?
So, you want to create another enemy out of SL because SL navy might be involved in killing Indian fishermen? You know the story from their side? You know that in the guise of fishermen, Indian tamil sympathizers of LTTE (yes, tamils voting for DMK) were straying into SL waters and supplying weapons to LTTE for about 20 years? Even when IPKF was trying to keep the peace in SL, the tamil sympathizers of LTTE were arming them, many of the same arms were indeed used against the IPKF. You know what it is called? Treason.
it's also called international "terrorism", something we blame on our neighbors too.
Modern Indian fishermen also stray into SL waters, evoking their navy's ire. We need to train and equip our fishermen with locational and communication devices (gps, radios), without which they are sitting ducks.
Fishermen are NOT expendable - I agree. But neither are our armed forces. You want to make an enemy of SL, so that in the future, they give China an open door in our backyard? So that we can send hundreds if not thousands of our armed forces into their death if and when hostilities break out?
Have you heard of the word diplomatic strategy? The lesser of the two evil? Finding a friend instead of an enemy?
So, bottle your harangue if you want to be a responsible citizen of India.

I believe people who make such statements are asses.

You generalised everybody and implied the justification of fishermen's killing by what happened 20 years ago.

How can I be calm when one makes a generalised accusation against the people of my state who vote for a particular party.And stop behaving like you can read people's minds ok.

 

[Param]

LOL -

See - when you start off by insulting others, you must be prepared to be insulted too. Go back to the threads and you would see that I have not insulted you or your family before this - even now I have not called them any name, whereas you have routinely personally insulted me, starting off with a veiled insult at me having to sit behind a computer and calling on our Fishermen being expendable. Which I never did.
But, you sanctimonious lout, you are ready to take insult at anything and everything - here is your world view in a nutshell - You first, then your family, then your caste, then your religion, then your state (TN - right?), then your country - India etc etc ...
I on the otherhand do not think myself that way - I am a human being first, then an Indian, then whatever state me/ my parents belong to, then my family (no place for caste and religion for me - sorry there).

I also deal with facts and not with raw emotions and immature rants.
So go ahead - state your case against the LCH sale to SL, I have alerady done the reverse, and will do so again.

MODS - please check the threads and tell us who is being an ass in this thread.

Nonsense, ever heard of self Praise? I can take an insult against me but not my my state or country. And stop talking as if you are the only patriotic selfless person around.

Facts ? what facts? I know what happened 20 years ago. I know about the sympathisers, smuggling that was happening 20 years ago. But you made the brilliant allegation of weapons smuggling happening for 20 years _ DO YOU HAVE PROOF?

WHAT YOU MADE WERE ALLEGATIONS NOT THE PRESENTATION OF FACTS.

 

[gogbot]

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. Ace009 was merely suggesting a way to protect our fishermen (and interests), by trapping Lanka into a carrot-stick using LCH. It is a tried and tested formula adopted by US and Europe against Randomistans, and it's always fetched results. Lanka will go soft on Indian fishermen, and support Indian interests. It's a win-win.

Totally agree. If don't do it china will. Its in indias best intrests right now.

 

[Param]

Where are you the one and only selfless patriot, ace009? running away from the debate? come back here. And support your accusations and allegations against Indian fishermen and Indians who were voting for a particular party in TN.

Every body knows about the role of Indian politicians( both state and Centre) regarding the SL issue. You are not some genius by giving some link to a wiki page. Everybody knows that better than you.

Give proof of your statements about fishermen and voters of TN. By making such accusations you are in no way being a responsible citizen, infact doing the opposite.

And you called yourself more educated than anyone in my family! Read an article hear and there and think you are some...
The links that you gave were about the pre 1991 era. support your accusations regarding the past 20 years that you mentioned.

 

[Param]

Hey ace009. Come and support your accusations otherwise it is clear that you are pulling these statements out of your ***.

Even though I did not like the sale of LCH to SL it was only my opinion and I did not make any random accusations against anybody. But you went on to blame the people of a state because they were voting for a party and started talking about events that happened before 2 decades.

How do you know that the fishermen being killed in recent times were the same who were involved in anti national activities 20 years ago? Did you do some sort of investigation that the Govt did not?

 

[ace009]

"So, you want to create another enemy out of SL because SL navy might be involved in killing Indian fishermen? You know the story from their side? You know that in the guise of fishermen, Indian tamil sympathizers of LTTE (yes, tamils voting for DMK) were straying into SL waters and supplying weapons to LTTE for about 20 years?"

^^^This is from his previous post

This is obviously not about protecting fishermen. This is a generalised statement made by him against al Tamilians who vote for DMK.

I believe a lot of anti national stuff was happening 20 years ago but why is he justifying the continuos killings of Indians even after 2009???
Does he have proof of any such smuggling happening between 1991 and 1996 or 2001 and 2006?
Such generalised stupid accusations are uncalled for.
Does he mean to say that such activities were happening during Jaya's rule also??? If he is saying that this happened for 20 years from TN he is also implying that Jaya's govt is also involved.

OK - Now I had missed this part - you are a Jayalalitha fan too!
Here goes your "proof" and my explanation - although why I bother I can't guess!!

Here is what Jayalalitha promised during her election campaign - stellar stuff in terms of foreign policy - right?

I will send Indian Army to Lanka to create Eelam : Jayalalitha | NowPublic News Coverage

and this two years before ...

Sri Lanka News | Ministry of Defence - Sri Lanka

Nice eh?
Now, for Tamils supporting LTTE - here is some news for you ...

But a just-released survey by Ananda Vikatan, The popular Tamil weekly magazine of Tamil Nadu shows a small yet surprising comfortable majority (54.25 percent) of people in Tamil Nadu supporting the LTTE, while only 17.4 percent oppose it. 28.34 percent said they supported LTTE before the assassination of Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi.

transCurrents: Tamil Nadu Survey finds support for Tamil Eelam and LTTE but also for arresting its leader

As for me "justifying" SL navy killing Indian fishermen - you have to be a barely literate moron to read that in this statement

"So, you want to create another enemy out of SL because SL navy might be involved in killing Indian fishermen? You know the story from their side? You know that in the guise of fishermen, Indian tamil sympathizers of LTTE (yes, tamils voting for DMK) were straying into SL waters and supplying weapons to LTTE for about 20 years?"

That statement was made to mean that SL navy hides behind the fact that once upon a time tamil supporters of LTTE used to send arms and ammo from India in fishing boats across the Palk straits. The SL navy used to hunt them - during IPKF times IN used to hunt them too. Long after that stopped (~2000/ 2001), SL navy still used to patrol the waters and hunt for such "smugglers" - at this point mostly looking for SL tamils trying to get back to Lanka - their idea was to stop LTTE recruitees. Nowadays they still do the same, but hide behind the pro-LTTE sympathizers. It is a menace, but one that was partly created by our own govts (successive TN govt, mostly DMK, but yes, even AIADMK played it's part for votes) when they supported LTTE. In the 1990s DMK and TN govt used to do it openly and with material support.
you have mentioned that RAW was training LTTE - can you provide ANY reference or is it another rant? Here you have just made a generalized statement against the GOI and it might be called treasonous in some countries - you know?

Here are some "theories" and reports ...

Tamil Nadu and the LTTE | Asian Tribune

LTTE and Security Implications for India by RR Vinod

The LTTE had earlier enjoyed a favourable equation with the centre because of LTTE chief VelupillaiP irabhakaran'sp roximity to the former chief minister of Tamil Nadu, M G Ramachandran.

Check the attachment ...
Hey - guess who was the founder of AIADMK??
View attachment TN elections.pdf

 

[ace009]

Hey ace009. Come and support your accusations otherwise it is clear that you are pulling these statements out of your ***.

Even though I did not like the sale of LCH to SL it was only my opinion and I did not make any random accusations against anybody. But you went on to blame the people of a state because they were voting for a party and started talking about events that happened before 2 decades.

How do you know that the fishermen being killed in recent times were the same who were involved in anti national activities 20 years ago? Did you do some sort of investigation that the Govt did not?

Did I ever say "past 20 years?" I said - and I repeat "for 20 years" - it was between 1980 to 2000. SL navy uses that as an excuse to harass Indian fishermen and get their own people better deals - but who would not? How do we counter that? By starting a war? Or by carrot and stick?

As for being so thin-skinned for "your people" - that is one BIG weakness for India. That is how the sympathizers started helping LTTE - "our people" - Tamils. "our country" - Eelam.
Comprende?

SO, JUST SHUT UP and LISTEN TO PEOPLE smarter than you ...

 

[Param]

Flickr: news4sen's Photostream

See this picture it will tell you who the moron is.

Only a Illiterate idiot would doubt the role of the centre in the 1980s. Everybody here knows that. Stop pretending that you do not know.
India had a very different view of the SL issue till 1987. Unfortunately you have to be educated to understand that.

pre 1991 was a different era. LTTE was not even considered a terrorist group then. It was declared a terror outfit only after rajiv's assasination.

Surveys do not mean much anybody can have sympathy it is what you do that matters.
Btw the statement about jaya sending the Indian army ti SL_ that is not anything illegal, she has the right to free speech and exercised that. Talking about Eelam is not a crime in India.

One has to be a complete IDIOT to say that TN politicians did every thing outside the control of the centre.

Give me one example of any active assistance to LTTE in TN in the past 10 to 15 years.


And are you more knowledgble than Justice Jain who had even made a refernce to RG for his policy regarding LTTE before 1987?

 

[Param]

Did I ever say "past 20 years?" I said - and I repeat "for 20 years" - it was between 1980 to 2000. SL navy uses that as an excuse to harass Indian fishermen and get their own people better deals - but who would not? How do we counter that? By starting a war? Or by carrot and stick?

As for being so thin-skinned for "your people" - that is one BIG weakness for India. That is how the sympathizers started helping LTTE - "our people" - Tamils. "our country" - Eelam.
Comprende?

SO, JUST SHUT UP and LISTEN TO PEOPLE smarter than you ...

Smarter my ass.. give one example(proof) of assistance to LTTE in the past 15 years or else SHUTUP.

I am waiting for your proof. Don't try too hard on the net you won't get it.

 

[ace009]

Flickr: news4sen's Photostream

See this picture it will tell you who the moron is.

Only a Illiterate idiot would doubt the role of the centre and our intelligence agency in the 1980s. Everybody here knows that. Stop pretending that you do not know.
India had a very different view of the SL issue till 1987. Unfortunately you have to be educated to understand that.

pre 1991 was a different era. LTTE was not even considered a terrorist group then. It was declared a terror outfit only after rajiv's assasination.

Surveys do not mean much anybody can have sympathy it is what you do that matters.
Btw the statement about jaya sending the Indian army ti SL_ that is not anything illegal, she has the right to free speech and exercised that. Talking about Eelam is not a crime in India.

One has to be a complete IDIOT to say that TN politicians did every thing outside the control of the centre.

Give me one example of any active assistance to LTTE in TN in the past 10 to 15 years.

See - how you contradict yourself? Jaya has a right to free speech and can talk about sending the IA to "create a Eelam in SL" - but I cannot say that DMK supporter tamils supported LTTE for 20 years? And you question my patriotism, my education, my intelligence? LOL ...
All you have shown is an old picture of RG sitting with Prabhakarn in a meeting - probably a meeting where India was trying to convince LTTE to give up it's armed insurrection. There is NO proof about the GOI being involved in material support to LTTE or of RAW training LTTE in terrorism - both of those are treasonous statements. Political support maybe there - but where is your proof Mr Param? You were sure yelling about ME providing some proof of my statements?

Mr Param - you are nothing but an extreme Tamil "patriot", the likes of whom a genaration ago were smuggling arms and ammo to LTTE disguised as fishermen, resulting in the events of present day killing of Indian fishermen by SL navy. So, if anyone is to balem, it is PEOPLE like you - blinded by their regional or sectarian feelings...
How do you like that? Mr Param patriotic tamil?

 

[tarunraju]

Smarter my ass.. give one example(proof) of assistance to LTTE in the past 15 years or else SHUTUP.

You're still not getting it. Ace009 says that Lanka is targeting Indian fishermen by justifying it with what happened in the 20 year period between 1980 and 2000 (some Indian Tamils providing logistical support to LTTE), even if nothing happened afterwards.

 

[ace009]

Here is some more "proof" of Indian tamil support for LTTE ...

In Tamil Nadu, though the Sri Lanka Tamil Cause that is the struggle for democratic rights - does not figure prominently in the political agenda, it remains a sensitive and emotional issue. This sensitivity was reflected in the unanimous resolution passed in the State Assembly on August 20, 2006 flaying Sri Lanka for launching the air strikes at an orphanage in Chencholai in Mullaitivu district, which killed 51 teenage girls. This does not mean that LTTE or its struggle automatically kindles the same emotion or support. All political parties including the All India Anna DMK and the Congress party, known for their strong anti LTTE stand, try to convert this emotive issue into political support for their parties. On the other hand, pro-LTTE parties like Pattali Makkal Katchi (PMK) and LTTE's closest ally Vaiko-led Marumalarchi Dravida Munnetra Kazagham (MDMK) would like to use every opportunity to turn Tamil sensitivity into tangible support for the LTTE. Even the latest clone of Dravidian politics, the maverick Vijaya Kanth's Desiya Murpokku Dravida Kazagham(DMDK), is known to be sympathetic to the LTTE. But the pro-LTTE political parties support to LTTE is muted at present due to clear warnings from the Chief Minister. But the moment the issue hits high public rating, they would join the LTTE political bandwagon with the rallying call of 'Tamils in danger' to strengthen their constituencies.

However, political attitudes in no way minimise the strong pockets of sympathy for LTTE that exists in Southern Tamil Nadu. Among the rank and file of most of the political parties, elements sympathetic to the cause of an independent Tamil Eelam, if not LTTE, exist. LTTE has shown an enviable ability to turn such muted sympathy of Tamil Diaspora into tangible sources of support. LTTE will attempt to do the same in Tamil Nadu, if it has not already done so. LTTE's global network, money power, and propaganda machinery, abetted by corrupt elements of bureaucracy could provide an incendiary mixture in Tamil Nadu if LTTE once again becomes a strong political issue.

LTTE is a military machine and does not bother with the nuances of backroom politics. So it does not depend upon political rhetoric. It bankrolls the gaps to buy influence and power. If this sounds alarmist, it is good to remember what the Jain Commission report had said about the significance of the very same subject in the year 1989: "the perpetuation of the general political trend of indulging the Tamil militants on Indian soil and tolerance of their wide-ranging criminal and anti-national activities ... LTTE activities of arms smuggling, abduction of Indian citizens and officials and intimidation of the law enforcement machinery were tolerated". In the existing political environment in India, LTTE might not find it easy to repeat its 1989 performance. LTTE is under tremendous operational pressure with the Sri Lanka Security Forces at its gates, and the sea-lanes of supply increasingly proving unsafe. Thus LTTE has to look to Tamil Nadu for sourcing its supplies. If this need overtakes other considerations, LTTE may well turn back to the basics of 1989. If Sri Lanka carries out military operations unmindful of the suffering caused to the Tamil population will help the LTTE to regain its influence in Tamil Nadu.

Sri Lanka: LTTE Ripples in Tamil Nadu - Update No. 116

 

[ace009]

You're still not getting it. Ace009 says that Lanka is targeting Indian fishermen by justifying it with what happened in the 20 year period between 1980 and 2000 (some Indian Tamils providing logistical support to LTTE), even if nothing happened afterwards.

Thanks TR - I am not sure he will EVER get it. He is blinded by his "Tamil patriotism". Honestly, I have at least a dozen Tamil friends over the years - all highly educated and I have never seen such bind dogma in anyone. He is stuck with one misrepresentation of one part of one of my posts and wasting time - enough is enough - I am out ...
May the forum belong to the morons and bigots.

 

[Param]

See - how you contradict yourself? Jaya has a right to free speech and can talk about sending the IA to "create a Eelam in SL" - but I cannot say that DMK supporter tamils supported LTTE for 20 years? And you question my patriotism, my education, my intelligence? LOL ...
All you have shown is an old picture of RG sitting with Prabhakarn in a meeting - probably a meeting where India was trying to convince LTTE to give up it's armed insurrection. There is NO proof about the GOI being involved in material support to LTTE or of RAW training LTTE in terrorism - both of those are treasonous statements. Political support maybe there - but where is your proof Mr Param? You were sure yelling about ME providing some proof of my statements?

Mr Param - you are nothing but an extreme Tamil "patriot", the likes of whom a genaration ago were smuggling arms and ammo to LTTE disguised as fishermen, resulting in the events of present day killing of Indian fishermen by SL navy. So, if anyone is to balem, it is PEOPLE like you - blinded by their regional or sectarian feelings...
How do you like that? Mr Param patriotic tamil?

Now you are accusing me. The only thing you have not done is calling me a terrorist.

I know there are parties and people who were sympathising with that organisation but did the do anything ,any action, any assistance to a banned organisation in the past 15 or 20 years? Making speeches and statements are for political purposes. Be clear when you say"support"

 

[Param]

Thanks TR - I am not sure he will EVER get it. He is blinded by his "Tamil patriotism". Honestly, I have at least a dozen Tamil friends over the years - all highly educated and I have never seen such bind dogma in anyone. He is stuck with one misrepresentation of one part of one of my posts and wasting time - enough is enough - I am out ...
May the forum belong to the morons and bigots.

I have no Tamil patriotism I hate the LTTE more than you do. I was only taliking about Indian fishermen being killed by SL after 2009 and you started talking about the past 20 years that is irrelevant.

The only thing you have been doing is pasting selective Links and making unfounded accusations.