F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

[sayareakd]

How so? The system clearly has a helmet-mounted sight incorporated into it. And bare in mind this is a 4 year old video, even the FELIN system didn't have HMDS at the time of project conception.

here is the thermal scope helmet made by DRDO

it is DRDO link.

 

[abingdonboy]

here is the thermal scope helmet made by DRDO

it is DRDO link.

That's quite different in design ideology than what will be present on the F-INSAS sir. In fact this looks like it is meant for firefigthers and not soldiers.

 

[sayareakd]

That's quite different in design ideology than what will be present on the F-INSAS sir. In fact this looks like it is meant for firefigthers and not soldiers.

True, but you are missing the point of HMD, as the display in both of them are almost same.

Here is another one which is made by Indian army guy.

Please pay attention to HMD (display only)

Ofcourse i would love to have what is on Felin system, but ours is more practical for our conditions.

 

[abingdonboy]

True, but you are missing the point of HMD, as the display in both of them are almost same.

Here is another one which is made by Indian army guy.

Please pay attention to HMD (display only)

Ofcourse i would love to have what is on Felin system, but ours is more practical for our conditions.

Sir, I am at an utter loss to understand what exactly you are trying to say. The HMDS on the FELIN system and on the F-INSAS are effectively the same by design and role ie to present an image of the rifle-mounted camera (for looking around corners) as well as to present the display of the personal computer both systems (FELIN and F-INSAS) have for each individual soldier. Yes they finished product may differ slightly in refinement and such but their respective functions will be basically the same.

 

[cobra commando]

Soldier of the 2nd Foreign Infantry Regiment (French Foreign Legion) strikes a pose with the brand new FAMAS- FELIN system.

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

WOW!!!!!! :shocked: F-INSAS should be based on this brand new FELIN system.

 

[sayareakd]

Sir, I am at an utter loss to understand what exactly you are trying to say. The HMDS on the FELIN system and on the F-INSAS are effectively the same by design and role ie to present an image of the rifle-mounted camera (for looking around corners) as well as to present the display of the personal computer both systems (FELIN and F-INSAS) have for each individual soldier. Yes they finished product may differ slightly in refinement and such but their respective functions will be basically the same.

I am talking about the Monocular HMD for FINSAS and its design.

When, i commented about this pic which was without Monocular HMD.

you said

He does indeed but the angle of that pic makes it less obvious, see:

Now back to Monocular HMD

This is simple and practical design compare to what is on Felin system, as i said above i would love to have them copy Felin design for HMD. May be we will have better system in future.

Regards.

 

[abingdonboy]

Now back to Monocular HMD

This is simple and practical design compare to what is on Felin system, as i said above i would love to have them copy Felin design for HMD. May be we will have better system in future.

Regards.

There's no reason to think a mock-up from 4+ years ago will be identical to the finished product sir. As it stands this design is impractical as it is too bulky.


In this picture:

No HMDS is even presented so we can't know for sure what the F-INSAS HMDS will look like for sure.

 

[p2prada]

We are going to have to wait and watch what DRDO has in store for F-INSAS. As a developing system, it will be mired in secrecy for a long time.

It would be neat if they are planning an exo-skeleton for the soldiers too.

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

Still waiting for F-INSAS

LINK: defencesecurityindia.com/artillery-still-waiting-for-f-insas/

The Indian's army's six-year old programme to upgrade its 359 infantry battalions and over 100 Rashtriya Rifles (RR) and Assam Rifles (AR) units deployed on counter-insurgency operations (COIN) under its ambitious Future-Infantry Soldier as a System (F-INSAS), stands interminably delayed.

Officials associated with the programmne said the F-INSAS aimed at harnessing technologies to enable the army to deploy a fully-networked, all-terrain and all-weather infantry with enhanced firepower and mobility for the future digitised battlefield, stands deferred by over six years if not longer beyond its 2013 deadline of fielding a prototype.

Conceived in August 2005 and announced by former army chief, General J J Singh two years later, the F-INSAS prototype focuses on the need to provide the infantry soldier with greater lethality, movement, survivability, sustainability, communications and situational awareness.

The programme is primarily an aggregate of 'System of Sub-Systems' to transform the Indian infantryman into a self-contained fighting machine enabling him to operate across the entire spectrum of future battles including nuclear war and low intensity conflict in a network-centric environment.

It seeks to equip him with an effective sensor-shooter interface in which each soldier is seamlessly integrated with his section, platoon and company. Conceptually, F-INSAS is envisioned as a 'friendly enabler' not only with regard to what it delivers individually, but also with respect to how each module is used in conjunction with other components which make up the whole.

'Future Soldier' programmes began emerging in armies around the world in the late 1990s with the broad aim of rendering each trooper capable of exchanging all information relevant to the battlefield with higher command echelons.

Thereafter, some 21 armies launched Soldier Modernization Programmes (SMPs) endeavouring to heighten the infantry soldiers situational-awareness capacity, fire power, protection and NATO-defined C4I (command and control, communications, computers and intelligence) potential.

Aping foreign SMPs, India aims to accomplish its F-INSAS through a mix of imported and locally developed equipment and systems for an estimated Rs 250 billion ($4.16 billion) in its first phase by 2025-27, a deadline it is almost certainly unlikely to meet. During its planning stage Infantry Directorate officers visited France, Israel, Italy and the US to assess their respective SMPs and incorporated many of their elaborate, albeit expensive and at times technologically overextended features into F-INSAS.

"The recurring postponements in the F-INSAS programme are primarily due to a lack of focus and clarity within the higher echelons of the army on system requirements" admitted a senior officer associated with the programme who
declined to be named.

The army itself , he declared is primarily responsible for the delays, unable even to formulate qualitative requirements (QRs) for many of the planned inductions in addition to over reach on some to the point of unreasonableness. The F-INSAS programme, he warned is long overdue and needs to be fast-forwarded as security threats posed by nuclear rivals Pakistan and China are steadily escalating.

Additionally and more alarmingly, Army Headquarters is yet to obtain the Ministry of Defence's (MoDs) approval or Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for the hugely expensive F-INSAS programme at a time when the military budget is facing major cutbacks.

In November 2012 India's federal finance ministry cut the MoDs Rs 795.97 billion capital acquisition outlay by Rs 100 billion or 12.5 per cent for Fiscal Year 2012-13 in what was a major blow to the army's already sluggish modernisation efforts. The marginal hike in defence spending in FY 2013-14 abetted by the continuing devaluation of the Rupee against the US Dollar too has negatively impacted the military's badly-needed upgrade, particularly the F-INSAS programme.

Senior army planners said the infantry makeover was further jeopardised by the MoDs preference for the inefficient and poorly-managed Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to design weapons and systems and the equally wasteful public sector defence units (DPSUs) and the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to build them.

"Anxious to protect its turf, the MoD discourages the army from tapping into the relatively more efficient, responsive and cost effective private sector to design and manufacture major systems particularly in optics, electronics and information-technology (IT) related spheres" former Lieutenant General Vijay Kapoor said. This ongoing tussle in MoD corridors between the private and public sectors will doubtlessly impact the F-INSAS programme in which little or no progress is so far visible, he declared.

Fundamentally, the F-INSAS programme involves equipping over 305,000 infantry troops and around 90,000 RR and AR personnel employed on conventional, COIN operations or both with a modular, multi-caliber suite of weapons and body armour. Assorted individual equipment like target acquisition and hand-held surveillance devices, including 3d generation night vision devices (NVDs) and communication apparatus, too form part of its upgrade package.

A range of computers capable of transmitting and uploading voice, data and video clips on wrist displays for soldiers and 'planning boards' for commanders, 'smart' vests packed with sensors, integrated ballistic helmets with heads-up display (HuD), miniature radios, global positioning systems (GPS) and portable power packs complete the F-INSAS programme.

But after six years nothing tangible has been achieved. Even acquiring a multi-purpose tool of which some 300,000 are needed for each upgraded infantry soldiers' survival kit has been delayed by the army despite trials in 2010-11, featuring vendors from Italy, Switzerland and the USA. Army officers said this was due primarily to the army's rigid and at times questionable trial procedures alongside its inability to take timely decisions which, in turn, aggravated suppliers.

There has, however, been incremental progress in weapon acquisitions with the army beginning in August 2012 the process of procuring 44,618 5.56mm Close Quarter Battle (CQB) Carbines to replace the outdated, WW II 9mm version; it tested five models at the Infantry School in Mhow, Pokhran in Rajasthan and at high altitude locations.

Competing for the Rs 20 billion CQB carbine tender are Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) Galil Ace carbine, Italy's Baretta ARX-160 and USAs Colt and Sig Sauer's offering the M4 and 516 Patrol models.

The selected vendor will be mandated to transfer technology to the OFB to licence produce 380,000-400,000 CQB carbines and 5.56mm ammunition for use not only by the army but eventually by the paramilitaries and state police forces in a programme estimated to cost over Rs 50 billion.

However, despite trials for CQB carbines and 5.56mm ammunition-of which 233 million rounds are to be acquired-being concluded over a year ago the final Staff evaluation by army headquarters still under process. Senior infantry officers had expected price negotiations for the carbines to have begun by mid-2013 ahead of the contract being inked by 2014 followed by deliveries shortly thereafter.

Bureaucratic delays both by the army and MoD have expectedly deferred the CQB contract and in turn exacerbated the operationally dire situation prevailing for over two years under which infantry units are being forced to operate without even the obsolete 9mm carbines as the OFB has stopped producing rounds for them.

Alongside, technical or paper evaluation in support of the army's initial requirement for 66,000 Multi Caliber Assault Rifles-5.56mm and 7.62mm-featuring five models is yet to be completed. Field trials remain in abeyance but could be held by end-2013 or early the following year followed by followed by summer evaluation in 2014.

The rival rifles weighing 3.6 kg fielded by the Czech Republic's Czeca (CZ 805 BREN), IWI (ACE 1), Baretta (ARX 160) and Colt ( Colt Combat Rifle) and Sig Sauer (SG551) requires them to readily convert from 5.56x45mm to 7.62x39mm merely by switching the barrel and magazine for employment on COIN or conventional offensive operations. They also need to be fitted with detachable under barrel grenade launchers (UBGLs) and be capable of firing OFB-produced 5.56mmx45 (SS109) ammunition rounds.

The new assault rifle will replace the locally developed Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) 5.56mmx45mm rifle developed over 35 years and inducted into service in the early 1990s which has proven to be inefficient and operationally troublesome. Defence minister A K Antony informed parliament late last year that the DRDO-designed and OFB-built rifles were being replaced since "technological development had created more superior rifles over the years", a euphemism for the indigenously designed product being inadequate.

The short-listed assault rifle vendor too will be required to transfer technology to the OFB to licence build the weapon system to meet the army's immediate shortfall of around 218,320 pieces.

Armament industry officials estimate that India's assault rifle requirement will, in due course be 2-3 million pieces to equip besides the army the large Central Paramilitary Forces and the provincial police. Together, the CQB carbine and assault rifle inductions will eventually be one of the world's largest ever small arms contracts worth over $5 billion.

The other significant hurdle in finalising the carbine tender is the stalemate over Image Intensifier (II) and Thermal Imaging (TI) based surveillance and target acquisition devices, the lack of which has, till now rendered India's infantry soldier 'night blind' in close quarter battle situations.

Despite the urgency to make good this operational void the army has, surprisingly yet to finalise its revised requirement for both hugely expensive systems II and TI systems the acquisition of which will have a massive financial impact on the F-INSAS project.

Presently, some 45,000 II based 3d generation Night Sights (Monocular) for fitment onto CQB carbines need to be acquired but their QRs need final confirmation.
The CQB carbines the army has evaluated have an effective range of 200mts but under pressure from unnamed 'vested interests' it mysteriously wants the specification of the II Tube-the core of the night sight-to be pitched at an inordinately extended Figure of Merit (FoM) rating of 1700.

This hugely expensive and heavily restricted FoM 1700 rating allows users to see clearly in pitch darkness including heavily clouded moonless nights and even in thick jungle at night. But the fundamental drawback is that this capacity is unavailable in India and needs to be imported at high cost.
In 2010 the MoD had, for Rs 1 billion facilitated the transfer of controlled 'supergen' technology from France's Photonic to the public sector Bharat Electrical Limited (BEL) to manufacture II Tubes with a FoM 1400 rating.
Other than Photonis the only other provider of II-based technology is USAs ITT. And while former is not permitted by the French government to export technology beyond FoM 1400 outside the European Union, US legislation prohibits ITT from transferring know-how overseas beyond FoM 1200.

Meanwhile, the field evaluation of night sights conducted last year by the Infantry Directorate on the CQB carbines on dark nights proved that the sights equipped with FoM 1400 were more than adequate for its 200m effective range.
Besides, factoring in the cost differential of nearly 50 per cent between FoM 1400 and FoM 1700 versus the respective visual range enhancement of no more than 10 per cent renders the army's QRs for night sights for the CQB carbines not only impractical but as some officers suggest somewhat subjective. They hinted that a handful of unproven European night vision manufacturers had entered into joint ventures with well connected local entrepreneurs who were reportedly influencing decisions on night sights.

Officials said BEL is capable of meeting the army's requirement for 45,000 night sights based on II tubes with a FoM of 1400 but army headquarters remains insistent on FoM 1700 which would necessitate costly imports. Additionally, BEL can also provide the 'Auto Gating' or brightness control facility on the night sights at no additional cost. Army experts justify the high cost of fitting the proposed assault rifles with ranges of over 400 mts with night sights with FoM 1700 as an effective force multiplier rather than on the CQB carbines.

Under F-INSAS the army also plans on acquiring some 15,000 5.56mm light machine guns and around 1000 sniper rifles for select "Ghatak" infantry commando platoons but these too await final QR formulations.
Similarly QRs for critical battle field communication and navigation equipment- including Dead Reckoning Modules (a miniature self-contained electronic navigation unit that pinpoints the user's position in case of non-availability or failure of navigational satellites), digital compasses, assorted computer, dual-band radio sets and soldier-individual power packs were far from completed.

But requests for proposal (RFPs) for some 170,000 modular bullet proof jackets (BPJs) weighing around 10.5kg and an equal number of Ballistic Helmets had been dispatched to domestic manufacturers in June and December 2012 respectively, some four years behind schedule. Contracts for neither had yet been signed. Conversely, tenders for basic knee and elbow protection pads too awaited finalisation in what is proving to be a ruinous infantry modernisation programme.

 

[sayareakd]

Reading the above i get the feel that IA is screwed by its officers.

 

[rugved]

By the time the army completes the F-INSAS programme, countries like USA, UK, France, China, etc. would have surged past ahead by inducting weapons and systems that will be 2 generations ahead of F-INSAS.

 

[mattster]

I have never seen a country like India before.

Every aspect of government involvement is trapped with red-tape and turf wars and corruption, etc.
In most countries - government departments are full if red-tape, etc, but when it comes to critical national security functions they make sure that those key areas are efficient.

But in India - its total parallysis !!
Even when soldiers are dying on the field or stone-age fighters are crashing and killing pilots - the GOV and MOD are still fighting their turf wars.

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

What is FoM 1700 night sight? Why can't french government allow export greater than FoM 1700?

 

[Immanuel]

I hardly think adopting FELIN style system or any others for that matter would help IA. IMO IA should stick to Indian companies and develoments. FINSAS actually has to very stringent requirments, systmes like FELIN won't work beyond certain heights in Kashmir, The average temp is sooo low, no even sure if any PDAs or night vision works at below 30. Have systems like FELIN even been tested beyond 50+ in very hot conditions?


I think, no matter how long it takes, IA should rely on local suppliers for such things. Not sure what this FoM 1700 sight is perhaps 1400 is already ok and wait for increments over the next years. Besides implementation can only be in phases and will take a few years.

 

[ladder]

Israel to Aid India's Future Soldier Effort

NEW DELHI — Israel will collaborate in producing high-tech systems for Indian soldiers, tapping a potential US $3 billion market.

Israel will team with India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to produce a variety of systems related to command and control, battlefield management, sensors and weapons, according to a proposal that was finalized last month.

An Indian Army official said the Indian Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System (F-INSAS) program "aims to utilize advanced technologies to enhance capabilities of an individual soldier." F-INSAS "is based on lessons from conflicts worldwide and intends to make the Indian soldier a self-contained fighting machine," the official said.

DRDO and Israel have agreed to jointly develop portable command-and-control (C2) systems for Indian soldiers. The system will have an encrypted computer and a monitor able to operate in harsh Indian weather. The system will be connected with the Indian Army's battlefield management system, a network-centric warfare project under development, said another Indian Army source.

The economic model of the arrangement between DRDO and Israel is unclear, but an Indian Army source said the C2 system must be able to grow over the years to accommodate 1.1 million Indian troops.

In addition, DRDO is teaming up with Israel for joint development of an advanced mobile observation system for infantry soldiers that will operate through a radio frequency sensor, allowing a soldier to remain at a distance while observing and recording a target.

DRDO has also submitted a proposal to the Indian Defence Ministry to develop an advanced personal network radio able to integrate voice; command, control, communications and intelligence applications; and GPS signals. The system will be connected to long-range radio networks to provide unprecedented operational range. This system will be developed with Israeli help.

To meet Army requirements, DRDO is also developing a multi-caliber individual weapon system and an air bursting grenade for individual weapons.

Other equipment to be procured includes advanced anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) launchers, bulletproof vehicles, anti-materiel rifles, new generation carbines, battle surveillance radars, thermal imaging sights for ATGM launchers, ground sensors, secured communication systems, precision guided ammunition and laser rangefinders.

Israel to Aid India's Future Soldier Effort | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[Twinblade]

The F-Insas rifle, is officially referred to as MCIWS (multi caliber individual weapon system).

It is most likely a conventional configuration, similar to Galil ACE, AK-12 or a heavily modernised Insas (unless there are multiple configurations).
Found this in one of DRDO's industry participation documents about MCIWS from march this year.

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

MCIWS looks like a mix-hybrid of AK-12 and Galil ACE.

 

[kumar2310s]

DRDO should subcontract these to private indian companies that can deliver the right quality and fulfil the orders at the right time. Since PSUs dont care for time line, Private players have to deliver on time else penalty clauses can be invoked.

Govt should work on such a model where the overall design should be prepared by DRDO and subcontracts should be given to Indian private players.

 

[Eastman]

Signal Regiment till date use vintage style analogue RF frequency easily interceptable and jammable, correct me if I am wrong.