F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

Bhurki

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I wrote dollars.. Polish deal is in dollars, while rafale deal is in EUR.
Dollars are different than Eur, aren't they?

EUR 7.9 = $ 8.8


All these items are not in the polish deal as presented.
I already answered this to you.. So lets not go in circles..

OK. It was not the news I read.
Logistic : what kind of logistic? for how many time?
Logistics cost with procurement usually means upfront set up cost for repair and maintenance equipment while the running costs for the same are what add to the Cost/hour figure.
 
Last edited:

StealthFlanker

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No USA carrier can withstand nuke attack ! Just protecting some electronic components from some weaker emp waves doesn't protect AC from blast which can clear our cities and bring fucking tsunami in ocean!! But retards like you live in a fantasy world. :pound::pound::pound:

And again ballistic missile submarine are for deterrence. Attack submarine will need to close in on enemy ships to attack . If your keeping your attack submarine 2000km away then you are not fighting a war. They are useless that war.

But you are a moron who thinks USA will win war by keeping Carrier and submarine 2000km away from enemy .lol. :crying:

Normally I will block idiots. But you are far too entertaining.

Let's summarise your idioticy till now.
A) USA carried can stand nuke attack .lol.
B) submarine don't need protection. Lol.
C) ballistic missile submarine are used to attack .lol
D) USA can shoot down hypersonic missile. No proof but ok.lol.
E) from 2000 km away you can defeat all countries . Lol


:crying::crying::crying::crying:

Keep them coming . This is too good. :crying::crying:
:pound::pound::pound::pound: You know, it is actually quite hilarious how you initially try to argue with technical arguments (mostly your bad understanding of military equipment but at least it was technical) but then when all your technical arguments get debunked easily, you resort to name calling, in the hope that might be, someone will see this as you are winning the discussion:pound:get real mate. Regardless of how loud you scream or how many insults you throw out, people still see you as an idiot. :pound:Because, the key differences between us is that while I can actually back up my points with sources or calculation, you can't. All you do is scream "retard "without actually giving any support evidences to your arguments (because deep down, even you yourself know that there aren't any).
Anyways,
A) I already give reason and calculation on why ballistic missiles which specifically designed to attack stationary target will not be effective against a carrier, which can move. The maths and physics is simple, the distance the carrier travel can be calculated, the explosion radius of a nuclear warhead can be calculated and number can't lie. It doesn't matter how much you scream, fact is fact and it won't bend to your preferences just because you don't like it. Sorry darling but fact don't care about your feeling
B) Yes they don't. There is pretty good reason why they put ballistic missiles on submarine and not anything else. It is because submarine are literally the hardest thing to find in the ocean and also the most survivable thing. The fact that you think any submarine would need carrier to move close to the shore to protect them is fucking laughable.
C) Firstly, nuclear submarine are used to attack, for example the Los Angeles class are already used to launch Tomahawk in several recent wars. What you should have said is BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINE NOT USED IN CONVENTIONAL ATTACK.
Secondly, it doesn't change my argument at all. Ballistic missile are put on submarine because submarine themselves are very hard to find and track, they are among the the most survivable vehicle on the ocean, this is true for both ballistic missile submarine and attack submarine.
Now for your argument that attack submarine have to move close to attack ship otherwise they are useless in that war. That is an idiotic claim which shows that not only you know nothing about technical aspect, you are also clueless about history. During both Gulf War and Operation Iraqi Freedom, US attack submarine was used to launch Tomahawk more than a thousand kilometers from the shore to attack land target. They don't need to get close to attack ship to contribute.
D) I love how your original argument was that US can't shot down supersonic missile but after realizing how fucking retarded that argument was, you start to move the goal post hoping no one will notice
E) Strawman much ? :pound:It just show how desperate you are :pound:
 

Bhurki

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@BON PLAN
Here you go...
Complete details of the Polish F35 Deal

https://theaviationist.com/2020/01/31/poland-signs-4-6b-usd-deal-for-the-purchase-of-32-f-35s/

Some excerpts -

Poland is acquiring the F-35 in the Block 4 variant, and the agreement also includes a modernization package that would involve subsequent upgrades introduced by Lockheed Martin.


Extras that come with the Polish aircraft include
- Ground support equipment,
- integrated training centre,
- 8 Full Mission Simulators,
- Logistics support within the GSS system (until 2030),
- Training of 24 pilots (up to the instructur level),along with 90 members of the ground crew.

Pricetag of the Polish F-35 deal is defined as 4.6B US dollars with
unit price of 87.3M dollars (net), engine included
– according to the Armament Inspectorate of the Polish MoD.
 

bhramos

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................................................................
 

Bhurki

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Armand2REP

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Lockheed Martin F-35 has 873 deficiencies
By Garrett Reim31 January 2020


The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II has 873 unresolved deficiencies and new problems are being discovered regularly, making reducing the number of issues with the aircraft difficult.

That’s the conclusion of the latest scathing assessment of the stealth fighter from the Annual Report for the US Department of Defense’s (DoD) Office of the Director of Operational Test & Evaluation (DOT&E), released to the US Congress on 30 January.



Source: US Air Force

US Air Force Lockheed Martin F-35A

“Although the programme is working to fix deficiencies, new discoveries are still being made, resulting in only a minor decrease in the overall number of deficiencies,” says the report.

The F-35’s problems include 13 Category 1 deficiencies. Such problems “may cause death or severe injury; may cause loss or major damage to a weapon system; critically restricts the combat readiness capabilities of the using organisation; or results in a production line stoppage,” according to the US Air Force’s (USAF) definition.

The F-35’s deficiencies are compounded by maintenance problems which hobbled the aircraft’s mission capable rate below the DoD’s goal of 80%. The mission capable rate is the percentage of aircraft capable of performing at least one mission, excluding aircraft in depot maintenance or undergoing major repairs.

“No significant portion of the fleet, including the combat-coded fleet, was able to achieve and sustain the DoD mission capable rate goal of 80%,” says the DOT&E. “However, individual units have been able to achieve the 80% target for short periods during deployed operations.”

Lockheed Martin did not respond to questions about when deficiencies with the F-35 would be fixed, saying it is still reviewing the DOT&E report.

Some of the aircraft’s lingering problems appear to be connected to the F-35 Joint Program Office and Lockheed Martin’s recently adopted Continuous Capability Development and Delivery process, a method of delivering software fixes and additional functions every six months. The process is modeled on a Silicon Valley method of delivering bite-sized chunks of code changes to customers called agile software development.

Lockheed Martin was openly optimistic in 2019 about the agile method’s ability to turn around the F-35’s troublesome software, which totals more than 8 million lines of code. However, DOT&E says the concept has been problematic.

“Software changes, intended to introduce new capabilities or fix deficiencies, often introduced stability problems and adversely affected other functionality,” says the weapons evaluator’s report. “Due to these inefficiencies, along with a large amount of planned new capabilities, DOT&E considers the program’s current Revision 13 master schedule to be high risk.”

Hardware problems persist too. For example, USAF “units flying newer F-35A aircraft discovered cracks in the outer mold-line coatings and the underlying chine longeron skin, near the gun muzzle, after aircraft returned from flights when the gun was employed”, according to the report.

The F-35A’s internally mounted 25mm gun also remains inaccurate.

“Investigations into the gun mounts of the F-35A revealed misalignments that result in muzzle alignment errors,” says DOT&E. “As a result, the true alignment of each F-35A gun is not known, so the programme is considering options to re-boresight and correct gun alignments.”

It is not known if those changes will fix the aircraft’s problems, as further testing would be needed, notes the Pentagon. The US Marine Corps’ F-35B and the US Navy’s F-35C, which carry 25mm guns in external pods, were accurate in air-to-ground firing tests, the report says.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/lockheed-martin-f-35-has-873-deficiencies/136481.article
 

IndianHawk

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:pound::pound::pound::pound: You know, it is actually quite hilarious how you initially try to argue with technical arguments (mostly your bad understanding of military equipment but at least it was technical) but then when all your technical arguments get debunked easily, you resort to name calling, in the hope that might be, someone will see this as you are winning the discussion:pound:get real mate. Regardless of how loud you scream or how many insults you throw out, people still see you as an idiot. :pound:Because, the key differences between us is that while I can actually back up my points with sources or calculation, you can't. All you do is scream "retard "without actually giving any support evidences to your arguments (because deep down, even you yourself know that there aren't any).
Anyways,
A) I already give reason and calculation on why ballistic missiles which specifically designed to attack stationary target will not be effective against a carrier, which can move. The maths and physics is simple, the distance the carrier travel can be calculated, the explosion radius of a nuclear warhead can be calculated and number can't lie. It doesn't matter how much you scream, fact is fact and it won't bend to your preferences just because you don't like it. Sorry darling but fact don't care about your feeling
B) Yes they don't. There is pretty good reason why they put ballistic missiles on submarine and not anything else. It is because submarine are literally the hardest thing to find in the ocean and also the most survivable thing. The fact that you think any submarine would need carrier to move close to the shore to protect them is fucking laughable.
C) Firstly, nuclear submarine are used to attack, for example the Los Angeles class are already used to launch Tomahawk in several recent wars. What you should have said is BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINE NOT USED IN CONVENTIONAL ATTACK.
Secondly, it doesn't change my argument at all. Ballistic missile are put on submarine because submarine themselves are very hard to find and track, they are among the the most survivable vehicle on the ocean, this is true for both ballistic missile submarine and attack submarine.
Now for your argument that attack submarine have to move close to attack ship otherwise they are useless in that war. That is an idiotic claim which shows that not only you know nothing about technical aspect, you are also clueless about history. During both Gulf War and Operation Iraqi Freedom, US attack submarine was used to launch Tomahawk more than a thousand kilometers from the shore to attack land target. They don't need to get close to attack ship to contribute.
D) I love how your original argument was that US can't shot down supersonic missile but after realizing how fucking retarded that argument was, you start to move the goal post hoping no one will notice
E) Strawman much ? :pound:It just show how desperate you are :pound:
Oh boy still defending your lunacy.
Okay let's end this.

Provide one document stating that a us navy carrier can with stand a full spectrum nuclear attack by enemy.

No more bullshit. No more selective emp . No more singular aircraft standard. Proof now or shut up forever.
 

StealthFlanker

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Oh boy still defending your lunacy.
Okay let's end this.

Provide one document stating that a us navy carrier can with stand a full spectrum nuclear attack by enemy.

No more bullshit. No more selective emp . No more singular aircraft standard. Proof now or shut up forever.
After a day of thinking and that the best argument you can come up with? :pound::pound::pound: i truly gave you too much credit.
What the fuck is even a "full spectrum nuclear attack?" Does a nuclear warhead on top of P-700 or LRASM count as nuclear attack? Or do they have to goes full retard and use a ballistic missile which specially intended to attack stationary land target ? :pound:And Military equipment are always designed/tested base on a certain standard, so by saying standard are BS and not allowed, you just showed everyone that you know nothing about military procurement and design process:pound:. Besides, you and your little friends WARENSS said there are no counter against nuclear EMP, I showed both of you that there are countermeasure and they are in place. Then your little friend have the silly idea of using a normal ICBM to destroy aircraft carrier, I showed him with simple calculation why that isn't possible. Then you said only a few aircraft are protected against nuclear EMP, I showed you that even counting Navy aircraft alone, there are more than 9 types are harden against EMP and has been tested at platform level. Then you continues saying that no aircraft carrier is protected against nuke EMP. I once against proving you wrong by showing the MIL-STD-464. Now that you run out of argument, you try to play a trick making me finding you the "Provide one document stating that a us navy carrier can with stand a full spectrum nuclear attack by enemy" otherwise you win the argument? :eek1: Firstly, by your logic if you can't find a single documents stating ballistic missiles are immune to naked man shouting at them, that mean ballistic missiles can be stoped by many naked man?:pound:
Secondly, burden of proof is on the one who make the claims (ever heard of Russel tea pot?) it is WARREN SS and you propose the idea of using nuclear EMP against carrier. So it up to you and him to provide evidence to show that it is effective. I don't actually have to prove a negative :pound:. I was actually being kind by showing you that MIL-STD-3023 is the design margin, performance metrics, and test protocols for HEMP protection of military aircraft and also showing you some Navy aircraft that get tested at platform level under that standard, I also showed you MIL-STD-464 and MIL-STD-4023 which is ship standard. Now if you want to propose that you nuclear EMP is enough to wreak all systems regardless they follow these standard or not. Then it is YOU who must supply a document which state Indian nuclear EMP can still ruined vehicle following MIL-STD-464, MIL-STD-3023 and MIL-STD-4023 standard :pound:
Come on, put up or shut up. You still haven't provide even a single documents to prove anything you have said while I have provided plenty, but Iam not your baby sister
 

fire starter

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lot of problems
It is unclear whether the Pentagon's new approaches to fixing the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter's (JSF's) troubled Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) will sufficiently improve the system or if more resources are needed, the Pentagon's chief weapons tester said in his latest report.

These new approaches are the Operational Data Integrated Network (ODIN), which is replacing ALIS, and the US Air Force's (USAF's) Mad Hatter, which is part of the service's Kessel Run effort to improve software development and turn the USAF into a more software-focused organisation.

Robert Behler, director of operational test and evaluation (DOT&E), said in his fiscal year 2019 (FY 2019) report released on 30 January that the F-35 programme released several new versions of ALIS in 2019 that improved the system's usability. Unfortunately, these improvements did not eliminate the major problems in ALIS design and implementation and are unlikely to significantly reduce technical debt or improve the user experience. DOT&E said ALIS remains inefficient and cumbersome to use, still requires the use of numerous workarounds, retains problems with data accuracy and integrity, and requires excessive time from support personnel.

As a result, ALIS does not efficiently enable sortie generation and aircraft availability as intended. Users continue to lack confidence in ALIS functionality and stability. DOT&E suggests the programme expedite fixes to the electronic equipment logbook data because it is a major ALIS degrader, frequent source of user complaints, and is a big ALIS administrator burden.
FB_IMG_1580721669936.jpg
 

abhay rajput

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lot of problems
It is unclear whether the Pentagon's new approaches to fixing the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter's (JSF's) troubled Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) will sufficiently improve the system or if more resources are needed, the Pentagon's chief weapons tester said in his latest report.

These new approaches are the Operational Data Integrated Network (ODIN), which is replacing ALIS, and the US Air Force's (USAF's) Mad Hatter, which is part of the service's Kessel Run effort to improve software development and turn the USAF into a more software-focused organisation.

Robert Behler, director of operational test and evaluation (DOT&E), said in his fiscal year 2019 (FY 2019) report released on 30 January that the F-35 programme released several new versions of ALIS in 2019 that improved the system's usability. Unfortunately, these improvements did not eliminate the major problems in ALIS design and implementation and are unlikely to significantly reduce technical debt or improve the user experience. DOT&E said ALIS remains inefficient and cumbersome to use, still requires the use of numerous workarounds, retains problems with data accuracy and integrity, and requires excessive time from support personnel.

As a result, ALIS does not efficiently enable sortie generation and aircraft availability as intended. Users continue to lack confidence in ALIS functionality and stability. DOT&E suggests the programme expedite fixes to the electronic equipment logbook data because it is a major ALIS degrader, frequent source of user complaints, and is a big ALIS administrator burden.View attachment 42353
ALIS is a software to Spy on owners.. they are upgrading it because some customers noticed that it has been sending critical data back to us.. only Israeli one's don't have that..
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ne...s/news-story/12b4fafce6b579448cc8416518063d1f
 

asianobserve

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lot of problems
It is unclear whether the Pentagon's new approaches to fixing the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter's (JSF's) troubled Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) will sufficiently improve the system or if more resources are needed, the Pentagon's chief weapons tester said in his latest report.

These new approaches are the Operational Data Integrated Network (ODIN), which is replacing ALIS, and the US Air Force's (USAF's) Mad Hatter, which is part of the service's Kessel Run effort to improve software development and turn the USAF into a more software-focused organisation.

Robert Behler, director of operational test and evaluation (DOT&E), said in his fiscal year 2019 (FY 2019) report released on 30 January that the F-35 programme released several new versions of ALIS in 2019 that improved the system's usability. Unfortunately, these improvements did not eliminate the major problems in ALIS design and implementation and are unlikely to significantly reduce technical debt or improve the user experience. DOT&E said ALIS remains inefficient and cumbersome to use, still requires the use of numerous workarounds, retains problems with data accuracy and integrity, and requires excessive time from support personnel.

As a result, ALIS does not efficiently enable sortie generation and aircraft availability as intended. Users continue to lack confidence in ALIS functionality and stability. DOT&E suggests the programme expedite fixes to the electronic equipment logbook data because it is a major ALIS degrader, frequent source of user complaints, and is a big ALIS administrator burden.View attachment 42353

All problems are software related. So you see how LM is ramping up production.
 

Bhurki

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All problems are software related. So you see how LM is ramping up production.
It is kind of funny on the part of people making fun of few deficiencies on the most expensive and advanced jet program in history of aviation while the Indian indigenous program has more years under the belt than it has aircraft.

We see these deficiencies because the auditor allows them to get through to us.
Even if there is any selective bias regarding the jet by the auditor, then it certainly isnt in favour of it, but to criticise it. This seems like a good practice to keep constant pressure on the tech integrators to not lose steam.

On the other hand, people take it as a confirmation of their rumoured beliefs.

If it was such a bad jet, it wouldn't actually be bought by the hundreds every year..
There will literally be 1000 of these in 2023. What other jet in production/proposal/development of any generation can you think which is destined to even touch that number?
 

BON PLAN

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@BON PLAN
Here you go...
Complete details of the Polish F35 Deal

https://theaviationist.com/2020/01/31/poland-signs-4-6b-usd-deal-for-the-purchase-of-32-f-35s/

Some excerpts -

Poland is acquiring the F-35 in the Block 4 variant, and the agreement also includes a modernization package that would involve subsequent upgrades introduced by Lockheed Martin.


Extras that come with the Polish aircraft include
- Ground support equipment,
- integrated training centre,
- 8 Full Mission Simulators,
- Logistics support within the GSS system (until 2030),
- Training of 24 pilots (up to the instructur level),along with 90 members of the ground crew.

Pricetag of the Polish F-35 deal is defined as 4.6B US dollars with
unit price of 87.3M dollars (net), engine included
– according to the Armament Inspectorate of the Polish MoD.
Nice !

a block 4 variant :clap2:

No one knows, even inside LM, when it will be fully released....
 

BON PLAN

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All problems are software related. So you see how LM is ramping up production.
and? with such a complicated and multi layerd soft, it will not be a piece of cake to fix. the bird is years late mainly because of such issues.
See ALIS.... seemed wonderfull. Now to be scrapped.
 

asianobserve

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and? with such a complicated and multi layerd soft, it will not be a piece of cake to fix. the bird is years late mainly because of such issues.
See ALIS.... seemed wonderfull. Now to be scrapped.
But tge beauty here is that since the issues are merely softwares the fixes can easily be implemented more cheaply than hardware changes or reengineering and applied to earlier batches. Also, the jet can be constantly be upgraded by softwares only.
 

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