F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[asianobserve]

USAF Speeds Next-Gen Fighter Family, With Eye Toward China

As said earlier : F35 is only a stop gap fighter. No FOC and already another plane on study....

http://aviationweek.com/defense/usa...m=email&elq2=b8ecc0a59f894b3e856d783333796be7

You call a 1,700 plus order of F-35As a stop gap? If that's a stop gap then what would you call the 280 Rafale order of the French Air Force ---- a farce?

Inevitably, 5th gen will give way to 6th gen, 6th gen will give way to 7th gen, and so on. That's the nature of fighter evolution. As long as people are still killing each other then fighters as an implement of war will continue to evolve to match the changing times.

Air dominance is an area that the US will not cede to any adversary now and in the future. The US will always try to maintain a step ahead in fighter technology against its rivals. So when its rivals have aready fielded 5th gen, it'll be time for the US to prepare the next gen of fighter to stay ahead. In fact, the US has been formulating concepts for 5th gen fighters even before China fielded J-20.

But do note that both teh F-22 and the F-35 will be around for a long time, up to 2050. There's already an upgrade road map for these fighters. The F-22 will already up for MLU in 2022 and USAF is looking at tech developed from F-35 to augment F-22s current tech.

 

[BON PLAN]

You call a 1,700 plus order of F-35As a stop gap? If that's a stop gap then what would you call the 280 Rafale order of the French Air Force ---- a farce?

Inevitably, 5th gen will give way to 6th gen, 6th gen will give way to 7th gen, and so on. That's the nature of fighter evolution. As long as people are still killing each other then fighters as an implement of war will continue to evolve to match the changing times.

Air dominance is an area that the US will not cede to any adversary now and in the future. The US will always try to maintain a step ahead in fighter technology against its rivals. So when its rivals have aready fielded 5th gen, it'll be time for the US to prepare the next gen of fighter to stay ahead. In fact, the US has been formulating concepts for 5th gen fighters even before China fielded J-20.

But do note that both teh F-22 and the F-35 will be around for a long time, up to 2050. There's already an upgrade road map for these fighters. The F-22 will already up for MLU in 2022 and USAF is looking at tech developed from F-35 to augment F-22s current tech.

USA forces will NEVER takes the 1700. It's only a false promise to give trust to foreign country.

You can't compare the size of france air force with US one. US is 7th bigger than France.
1700 (a total phantasm...) / 7 = 242. => Not a farce.

The sole real US 5th gen plane(according to own early LM propaganda) is F22. F35 is a ill born small brother.

F22 =

F35 =

Even before FOC, F35 is under permanent upgrade. Just to correct design errors, cracks & bugs.

 

[asianobserve]

USA forces will NEVER takes the 1700. It's only a false promise to give trust to foreign country.

You can't compare the size of france air force with US one. US is 7th bigger than France.
1700 (a total phantasm...) / 7 = 242. => Not a farce.

The sole real US 5th gen plane(according to own early LM propaganda) is F22. F35 is a ill born small brother.

F22 = View attachment 23393

F35 = View attachment 23394

Even before FOC, F35 is under permanent upgrade. Just to correct design errors, cracks & bugs.

You have degenerated into a caricature my friend.

 

[BON PLAN]

The maneuverability exhibited by the F-35 in the Paris Air Show certainly was something that I've seen only in TVC equipped fighters. This plane has so much nose pointing authority as can be seen in the Paris Airshow demo video. The power back flip and rudder turns (with full authority) from that demo also certainly were very impressive and have only been seen in F-22 demos among Western fighters.

I'll repost the video for facility:

You probably haven't seen so many TVC plane ! The TVC equipped F35 is out turned by a now old F16 with external tanks.... what a pity for a plane marketed as "agile as a F16 !"

After every turn it had to flight straight a few seconds, in full reheat to recover its energy ! and the plane was quite empty ! In a real configuration the best it can do is to take the advantage over a F4 phantom.

 

[BON PLAN]

Another ignorant article. The US Navy Navy is not favoring the F-35. Remember that there are 317 legacy Hornets and 500 Super Hornets. Legacy Hornets are retiring soon while the Super Hornets are still relatively brand new aircraft and thus will remain in service for decades more. It means that the F-35s will only replace the legacy Hornets while the Super Hornets need to be updated to remain competitive at a time when China is already fielding 5th gen J-20 in the Pacific, the theater where Super Hornets will main operate from.

In other words, these upgrades to Super Hornets fleet are necessary.

USN was never very keen with F35. They always thought stealth was over hyped.

As F35 is late (very late in fact : no less than 10 years), they have to replace some old FA18 (one duty of the F35C)

=> Another proof that USA will never take the initial target of 1700 planes. Only simple minds already agree that.

 

[BON PLAN]

You have degenerated into a caricature my friend.

poor argument !
(you have accustomed me to be better)

 

[asianobserve]

You probably haven't seen so many TVC plane ! The TVC equipped F35 is out turned by a now old F16 with external tanks.... what a pity for a plane marketed as "agile as a F16 !"

Only in the clean configuration can an F-16 manage to outmaneuver an F-35. No Western fighter has been able to perform such extreme maneuver as back flip or rudder turn except the F-22.

After every turn it had to flight straight a few seconds, in full reheat to recover its energy ! and the plane was quite empty ! In a real configuration the best it can do is to take the advantage over a F4 phantom.

You are talking about Rafale. The F-35 clearly has a lot of power in that demo.

 

[asianobserve]

USN was never very keen with F35. They always thought stealth was over hyped.

Is that why the Super Hornet has tried to incorporate as much stealth features into its legacy design as possible?

As F35 is late (very late in fact : no less than 10 years), they have to replace some old FA18 (one duty of the F35C)

=> Another proof that USA will never take the initial target of 1700 planes. Only simple minds already agree that.

The F-35 is the new NATO standard, no matter your silly claims. Whenever it goes up against Rafale, Rafale always loses.

 

[BON PLAN]

Only in the clean configuration can an F-16 manage to outmaneuver an F-35. No Western fighter has been able to perform such extreme maneuver as back flip or rudder turn except the F-22.

of course not.
The F16bk30 (not so youg !), with 2 external tanks was better. It was publicly released.

those manoeuvers are useless in aerial combat.
What is important is the ability to change of direction quickly, and not to loose (too much) energy (or recover it soon). In those 2 area F35 is lumpish. It's just the truth.
But it's quite normal : F35 from the beginning is studied as an attack plane, not a air fighter. It's just LM that unsucessfully tried to prove it's a nice fighter to keep F16 heritage.

Same history than Tornado : from a nice attack plane, the GB tried to transform it in a air defense fighter. It was all but a sucess. fast, only able to flight straight away, under powered, only able to dive when attacked (Mirage 2000 pilots were smiling when opposant was a Tornado ADV... a butcherry !)

 

[BON PLAN]

The F-35 clearly has a lot of power in that demo.

remove your sun glasses when you look at the video !
with just the amount of fuel necessary the beast is already out of breath, so with all fuel and weapon.....

 

[BON PLAN]

Is that why the Super Hornet has tried to incorporate as much stealth features into its legacy design as possible?

Is it the USN request? NO

It's a marketing attempt from Boeing. Stealth is the mood. As all mood it change...

 

[BON PLAN]

The F-35 is the new NATO standard, no matter your silly claims.

It's not the first time NATO made a wrong choice ! F104 was a pilot killer...

 

[asianobserve]

It's not the first time NATO made a wrong choice ! F104 was a pilot killer...

There was widespread of allegation of bribery by Lockheed Martin (the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act was only enacted into law in 1977). And I agree the F-104 "widow maker" is not a very good plane.

The same cannot be said of F-35. It's a very stable platform, highly maneuverable, stealthy with the most advanced integrated sensors of any fighter in the World, both in service or under development. In fact, F-22 MLU will borrow extensively from sensor tech of the F-35.

 

[scatterStorm]

The maneuverability exhibited by the F-35 in the Paris Air Show certainly was something that I've seen only in TVC equipped fighters. This plane has so much nose pointing authority as can be seen in the Paris Airshow demo video. The power back flip and rudder turns (with full authority) from that demo also certainly were very impressive and have only been seen in F-22 demos among Western fighters.

I'll repost the video for facility:

You can do such maneuvers if your jet is "hot". Considering they are manufactured by the legendary P&W. You can compare Tejas video as well on "afterburners", considering it's not even a canard delta wing, which further increases drag during extreme merges or scissor maneuvers, that's why delta winged planes lacking a canard are said to avoid extreme merges for a long period of time, because in turns you are actually bleeding energy and if it continues to do so, your engine is going to stall.

So the questions comes in the in the mind, does the F35 also bleeds a significant amount of energy, because I read an article where some fighter pilots of F18s said in a Red flag exercise it was a no match for F16s and F18s during tight turns maneuvers, which actually forced the F35 pilot to go hot, and a very bright painted dot on there fire control radars screens.

 

[BON PLAN]

There was widespread of allegation of bribery by Lockheed Martin (the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act was only enacted into law in 1977). And I agree the F-104 "widow maker" is not a very good plane.

The same cannot be said of F-35. It's a very stable platform, highly maneuverable, stealthy with the most advanced integrated sensors of any fighter in the World, both in service or under development. In fact, F-22 MLU will borrow extensively from sensor tech of the F-35.

About F35, it's not the facts.
stable platform : probably because not agile. This plane is limited to 7G and loose against a F16. Just facts Bro.
Sensors : the data fusion doesn't work after 10 years of dev.
Stealth : yes, but only in the front sector.

 

[BON PLAN]

You can do such maneuvers if your jet is "hot". Considering they are manufactured by the legendary P&W. You can compare Tejas video as well on "afterburners", considering it's not even a canard delta wing, which further increases drag during extreme merges or scissor maneuvers, that's why delta winged planes lacking a canard are said to avoid extreme merges for a long period of time, because in turns you are actually bleeding energy and if it continues to do so, your engine is going to stall.

So the questions comes in the in the mind, does the F35 also bleeds a significant amount of energy, because I read an article where some fighter pilots of F18s said in a Red flag exercise it was a no match for F16s and F18s during tight turns maneuvers, which actually forced the F35 pilot to go hot, and a very bright painted dot on there fire control radars screens.

During Le Bourget show, you can see F35 flying straight away after every high 7G turn. Because it lacks its energy despite the huge engine.
Just imagine the same plane with full fueln and some weapons...

As said earlier, it's a modern Tornado ADV : a nice radar and some medium range AAM. Once the stealth vanished (only a question of time), or in a high density combat, where friend or foe are close so impossible to shoot medium range AAM, it is dead because unable to close combat.

 

[asianobserve]

You can do such maneuvers if your jet is "hot". Considering they are manufactured by the legendary P&W. You can compare Tejas video as well on "afterburners", considering it's not even a canard delta wing, which further increases drag during extreme merges or scissor maneuvers, that's why delta winged planes lacking a canard are said to avoid extreme merges for a long period of time, because in turns you are actually bleeding energy and if it continues to do so, your engine is going to stall.

So the questions comes in the in the mind, does the F35 also bleeds a significant amount of energy, because I read an article where some fighter pilots of F18s said in a Red flag exercise it was a no match for F16s and F18s during tight turns maneuvers, which actually forced the F35 pilot to go hot, and a very bright painted dot on there fire control radars screens.

In dogfights (WVR combat) whether opposing fighters uses afterburners or not is of no significant importance. Within visual contact each fighter's will always be visible to the sensors of the opponent aircraft either via radar or heat signature detection (EOTs, IRST, ect.). Just take a look a this FLIR video of an F-22 in WVR:


It only goes to show that in modern dogfights (WVR combat) no amount of super/extreme-duper maneuvering capabilties can save fighters (4th, so called 4.5th or 5th gen) from modern IR missiles with LOAL, HOBS, thrust vectored, 60G capable. Under these technological realities TVC will not give a fighter much advantage for a modern IR missile can always outmaneuver the aircraft, after all pilots would start blacking out at 8Gs while IR missiles can sustain up to 60Gs maneuvers. Besides, in WVR combat all duelling fighters will be in each other missile's "NO ESCAPE ZONE." So the first fighter to be able to launch its missile will likely win.

The determining factor that will decide modern dogfights is "pilot skills." The more experienced, trained pilots will most likely commit less mistakes and will quickly gain advantage on the less experienced/trained pilot. But perhaps granting that both opposing pilots are equally skilled and experienced then the fighter with the best sensors and sensor fusion coupled with HMCS will have a a better chance of coming out on top. of the opponent.

So in real-World scenario, the air combat systems and plans that prioritizes BVR advantage are the sure winners. This is where 5th gen fighters will have an undisputed advantage over 4th or so called 4.5th gen fighters for it means that 5th gen fighters can dictate the pace of the air combat and can chose when and how to engage and have the best chance of disengaging from the fight if the tactical advantage is lost.

 

[asianobserve]

About F35, it's not the facts.
stable platform : probably because not agile. This plane is limited to 7G and loose against a F16. Just facts Bro.
Sensors : the data fusion doesn't work after 10 years of dev.
Stealth : yes, but only in the front sector.

Please look at my responses so many pages before.

 

[asianobserve]

During Le Bourget show, you can see F35 flying straight away after every high 7G turn. Because it lacks its energy despite the huge engine.
Just imagine the same plane with full fueln and some weapons...

As said earlier, it's a modern Tornado ADV : a nice radar and some medium range AAM. Once the stealth vanished (only a question of time), or in a high density combat, where friend or foe are close so impossible to shoot medium range AAM, it is dead because unable to close combat.

You wish. What the F-35 showed in Paris is its slow speed maneuverability. It's gracefulness if you will. And it has demonstrated it so well as in fact the only planes capable of doing better are TVC-equipped fighters.

 

[BON PLAN]

You wish. What the F-35 showed in Paris is its slow speed maneuverability. It's gracefulness if you will. And it has demonstrated it so well as in fact the only planes capable of doing better are TVC-equipped fighters.

Blind you are.....