F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[scatterStorm]

Hate to break this to you, but what are you seeing is "strip down" version of F35. Now hold your horses, "strip down" doesn't mean literally some avionics were removed, it's without armaments. Besides, you can move your jet at slow speeds because the entire airframe is designed to glide at low speeds, this isn't new, F18 can also do that, and entire Sukhoi line from 30 and above can do that.

But in actual fight, you won't be doing this kind of maneuvers, especially if you are having an R77 (BVR, fin stabilized) at you tail. Now I am not saying dog fight but a BVR missile locked on to F35.

F35 is a good jet, but was not built for "air superiority". It's main task is to assist the Flying formations of F22, do CAS and SEED ops. It's basically glorified "swing role" fighter.

 

[asianobserve]

Hate to break this to you, but what are you seeing is "strip down" version of F35. Now hold your horses, "strip down" doesn't mean literally some avionics were removed, it's without armaments. Besides, you can move your jet at slow speeds because the entire airframe is designed to glide at low speeds, this isn't new, F18 can also do that, and entire Sukhoi line from 30 and above can do that.

But in actual fight, you won't be doing this kind of maneuvers, especially if you are having an R77 (BVR, fin stabilized) at you tail. Now I am not saying dog fight but a BVR missile locked on to F35.

F35 is a good jet, but was not built for "air superiority". It's main task is to assist the Flying formations of F22, do CAS and SEED ops. It's basically glorified "swing role" fighter.

That's not a strip down version of the F-35. It's a regular F-35A but perhaps with only 50% fuel in tanks.

I believe LM did those maneuvers to disprove the pervasive criticism that it is too fat to maneuver. Well, it can maneuver.

The F-16 too was not primarily sn air superiority fighter, that's the job of the F-15. The F-16 from the start was concieved as a low cost multirole sidekick to the F-15. But guess what? It has proven yo be more than a match to its adversaries.

 

[asianobserve]

Interestingly, the F-35A that did the demo in Paris last year was still using 3i software. Meaning, the F-35A in the Paris Air Show was still limited to only perform up to 7G maneuvers. Impressive, huh?

 

[Adioz]

It only goes to show that in modern dogfights (WVR combat) no amount of super/extreme-duper maneuvering capabilties can save fighters (4th, so called 4.5th or 5th gen) from modern IR missiles with LOAL, HOBS, thrust vectored, 60G capable. Under these technological realities TVC will not give a fighter much advantage for a modern IR missile can always outmaneuver the aircraft, after all pilots would start blacking out at 8Gs while IR missiles can sustain up to 60Gs maneuvers. Besides, in WVR combat all duelling fighters will be in each other missile's "NO ESCAPE ZONE." So the first fighter to be able to launch its missile will likely win.

Dude are you serious about this?
The missile will fly at a much greater speed than the aircraft. Even if the missile can handle more Gs, its higher speed means that its turn radius is still larger than the aircraft travelling at lower speeds and turning at lower Gs.
Add to this the fact that missiles (rocket-powered) tend to loose energy the further they travel and cannot turn so fast further along their engagement zones. Stop talking like everything is so black and white.

 

[Immanuel]

About F35, it's not the facts.
stable platform : probably because not agile. This plane is limited to 7G and loose against a F16. Just facts Bro.
Sensors : the data fusion doesn't work after 10 years of dev.
Stealth : yes, but only in the front sector.

You're full of shit, F-35A is 9G capable, the F-35C is limited to 7.5 gen by choice.

Sensor fusion on the F-35 is a gen ahead of anything operational now or for the next 10 years, heck Rafale still doesn't have a helmet mounted cueing system does it. Stealth is stealth, come back when France can develop something just as good without facing issues. As said, in about 8-10 years, Rafales, EFs, Gripens etc. won't have any future, while LM might still be selling it's old F-16. The F-35 will put your little fighter industry out of business.

The Rafale is a good aircraft but an off the shelf F-16 is more 'usable' due to it's lower costs, nearly 5 times the weapons choice and roughly 2/3 the price.

 

[BON PLAN]

Why Air Force Is Rushing To Fly A Sixth-Generation Fighter Jet

F35 is definitively a stop gap plane.

https://www.investors.com/news/f35-f22-successors-development-accelerated-amid-china-threat/

 

[BON PLAN]

The F-16 too was not primarily sn air superiority fighter, that's the job of the F-15.

F16 was a "daylight" short range fighter. The first models only carry Sidewinder.

 

[BON PLAN]

Interestingly, the F-35A that did the demo in Paris last year was still using 3i software. Meaning, the F-35A in the Paris Air Show was still limited to only perform up to 7G maneuvers. Impressive, huh?

7G after 10 years of developpment phase..... It's the end my dear.
No fighter in the world moved from 7 to 9G after 10 years of air test.

THE FLIGHT ENVELOPPE IS THE FIRST THING FULLY OPEN ON A PLANE. It's done until yearSSS for this flying brick.

 

[BON PLAN]

You're full of shit, F-35A is 9G capable, the F-35C is limited to 7.5 gen by choice.

funny. By choice.... incredible !

 

[asianobserve]

Dude are you serious about this?
The missile will fly at a much greater speed than the aircraft. Even if the missile can handle more Gs, its higher speed means that its turn radius is still larger than the aircraft travelling at lower speeds and turning at lower Gs.
Add to this the fact that missiles (rocket-powered) tend to loose energy the further they travel and cannot turn so fast further along their engagement zones. Stop talking like everything is so black and white.

A2A missiles does not do dogfight -like maneuvers against their targets. They anticipate the targets location to calculate the impact location where the missile will go. So an A2A missile does not really have to match an aircraft's maneuvering to stay on target. IN the case of IR missiles, the current 5th gen IR missiles does not need to follow the tail of a target aircraft. It can target the aircraft from the side.

Besides, at WVR, the lunching aircraft and the target airfcraft are too close to each other that there is only seconds of missile distance between them. So essentially, the first aircraft to lock on and lunch its IR missile against the other in WVR combat wins.

Take a look at this AIM 9x testing video:

 

[asianobserve]

Why Air Force Is Rushing To Fly A Sixth-Generation Fighter Jet

F35 is definitively a stop gap plane.

https://www.investors.com/news/f35-f22-successors-development-accelerated-amid-china-threat/

Don't be silly. That's how USAF approach their fighter development cycle. You have to remember that USAF's No. 1 mission is to maintain air superiority in current and future air combat scenarios. To that end staying ahead in fighter technology is the most important strategy.

US F-22 fighter program [Advanced tactical Fighter (ATF)] was started in 1981, when the F-15 was introduced only in 1976 while the F-16 was introduced in 1978.

 

[BON PLAN]

Don't be silly. That's how USAF approach their fighter development cycle. You have to remember that USAF's No. 1 mission is to maintain air superiority in current and future air combat scenarios. To that end staying ahead in fighter technology is the most important strategy.

US F-22 fighter program [Advanced tactical Fighter (ATF)] was started in 1981, when the F-15 was introduced only in 1976 while the F-16 was introduced in 1978.

You can't compare the 70th or 80th situation with actual one :
The cold war is over (and the opposition between russia and USA in one hand or china and USA in the other one are soft in comparison).
The developpment of weapons is more expensive, so you change it less often (but upgrade it every few years).

 

[BON PLAN]

UK government addresses F-35 concerns, states continued commitment to programme

Unclear for take-off? F-35 Procurement , the government on 26 February clarified a number of the concerns raised with the aircraft’s next-generation Multifunctional Advanced Data Link (MADL); the capacity of the internet broadband fitted to the Queen Elizabeth-class (QEC) aircraft carriers; the reported cyber vulnerabilities of the Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS); a lack of information on the current or the final costs of the programme; as well as software and hardware development problems.

http://www.janes.com/article/78168/...erns-states-continued-commitment-to-programme

 

[BON PLAN]

the ‘stealth’ jet cannot transmit data to British ships or older planes without revealing its position to the enemy;

broadband on Britain’s principal aircraft carrier is four times weaker than that of an average UK household, severely hampering the jet’s abilities;

a test pilot had to land in almost total darkness after night vision failed in the plane’s £309,000 helmet;

the plane’s £12 billion software system is vulnerable to cyber attack and Britain will not be able to test its security independently;

Joint Forces Command, the part of the MoD in charge of computer networks essential to the plane’s operation, must find savings of £400 million this year; and the fall in the value of the pound against the dollar has exposed British taxpayers to more than £1 billion in extra costs.

:hippo:

 

[asianobserve]

Turkey mulls purchase of US’s F35-B for future airplane carrier

Amid plans to upgrade its naval air forces with light and full-equipped aircraft carriers over the next decade, Turkey is now considering procuring new generation F-35B fighter aircrafts with the qualifications of short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL), as part of the ongoing Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...-uss-f35-b-for-future-airplane-carrier-127923


I'm not sure that Turkey under the caliphate of Erdogan is a trustworthy ally of democratic and liberal countries... Any F-35 deal with Turkey seems to be a hammer that will be used against democratic and peaceful forces in the ME.

 

[asianobserve]

This is another video of AIM 9x testing which makes it clear that WVR combat (dogfight) using current aircraft and missile tech is like an old Western gun duel:


The first one to shoot wins (granting both parties are closely matched in terms of technology). So if you're a pilot you'd be a fool to go into a dogfight against another skilled pilot, even if you're flying a 5th gen fighter.

 

[BON PLAN]

Turkey mulls purchase of US’s F35-B for future airplane carrier



http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...-uss-f35-b-for-future-airplane-carrier-127923


I'm not sure that Turkey under the caliphate of Erdogan is a trustworthy ally of democratic and liberal countries... Any F-35 deal with Turkey seems to be a hammer that will be used against democratic and peaceful forces in the ME.

Absolutely !
This guy is very dangerous and trust free.
I'm very happy that the EU doors remain closed for that Turkey. Maybe under a more clever leader...

One of the very first time I agree with you !!! everything happens.

 

[BON PLAN]

This is another video of AIM 9x testing which makes it clear that WVR combat (dogfight) using current aircraft and missile tech is like an old Western gun duel:


The first one to shoot wins (granting both parties are closely matched in terms of technology). So if you're a pilot you'd be a fool to go into a dogfight against another skilled pilot, even if you're flying a 5th gen fighter.

Don't forget that a missile isn't 100% reliable (see AIM 9 X fail against Syrian SU22 next year)
There are also counter measures (OK, newer missiles integrate counter counter measures, but it's always the battle between the sword and theshield).
DIRCM to come
etc...

 

[asianobserve]

Don't forget that a missile isn't 100% reliable (see AIM 9 X fail against Syrian SU22 next year)
There are also counter measures (OK, newer missiles integrate counter counter measures, but it's always the battle between the sword and theshield).
DIRCM to come
etc...

The first missile might fail but there will be a spare missile, and I think the USAF Aim9x fail was more of an excemption and by now was already fully investigated and rectified. Besides, you wouldn't rest your fate on the thought that the opponent's missile will fail?

 

[asianobserve]

Absolutely !
This guy is very dangerous and trust free.
I'm very happy that the EU doors remain closed for that Turkey. Maybe under a more clever leader...

One of the very first time I agree with you !!! everything happens.

I don't like strongmen and absolutely hates megalomaniacs.