F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[BON PLAN]

F-35A price soars for Japan...



via Defense Aerospace.
The estimated per-plane cost to Japan of acquiring a single US F-35A stealth fighter soared by about 53 percent to US$137.6 million (14.7 billion yen) in FY 2017 from an estimated US$90 million (9.6 billion yen) in FY 2012, according to a report by the Asahi Shimbun. Japan Defense Ministry officials attributed the catapulting price on the currency impact of a weaker yen. But some defense analysts blamed the surging costs on Japan’s procurement of the aircraft from the US government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program. Asahi noted FMS sales are considered part of the defense aid that the US provides to its allies. Because of this, buyers like Japan tend to pay the asking price, versus what might have been paid by purchasing the plane directly from Lockheed Martin, its manufacturer. “As the F-35A is aircraft loaded with sensitive features, it is difficult to verify whether the cost is reasonable,” a senior Defense Ministry official was quoted as saying. “It is true that we tend to accept the US asking price.” (end of excerpt)
No rant. I just wish someone somewhere could give me a no bullshit price for this jet.
You can do all the Google searches in the world and you're just gonna be caught in a hall of mirrors.
Some say its dropping, others say its rising...the public is just left confused.
Well done Program Office.
With your accounting practices no one has any real idea how much this plane costs.

 

[asianobserve]

F-35A price soars for Japan...



via Defense Aerospace.
The estimated per-plane cost to Japan of acquiring a single US F-35A stealth fighter soared by about 53 percent to US$137.6 million (14.7 billion yen) in FY 2017 from an estimated US$90 million (9.6 billion yen) in FY 2012, according to a report by the Asahi Shimbun. Japan Defense Ministry officials attributed the catapulting price on the currency impact of a weaker yen. But some defense analysts blamed the surging costs on Japan’s procurement of the aircraft from the US government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program. Asahi noted FMS sales are considered part of the defense aid that the US provides to its allies. Because of this, buyers like Japan tend to pay the asking price, versus what might have been paid by purchasing the plane directly from Lockheed Martin, its manufacturer. “As the F-35A is aircraft loaded with sensitive features, it is difficult to verify whether the cost is reasonable,” a senior Defense Ministry official was quoted as saying. “It is true that we tend to accept the US asking price.” (end of excerpt)
No rant. I just wish someone somewhere could give me a no bullshit price for this jet.
You can do all the Google searches in the world and you're just gonna be caught in a hall of mirrors.
Some say its dropping, others say its rising...the public is just left confused.
Well done Program Office.
With your accounting practices no one has any real idea how much this plane costs.

Remember these are LRIP prices. So they are substantially higher than production version prices. Anyway, in the case of Japan’s additional 25 order (based on your article) just divide $137.6 m by 3, since the article said that there’s a 50% price escalation in the fms transaction. So you get $91.2m as the actial price that Kapan should have paid under LRIP prices had it negotiated directly with LM. That’s a readonable LRIP price given the capabilities acquired.

If Japan is not in a hurry then it can wait for full production and negotiate with LM for a much lower unit price.

 

[BON PLAN]

That’s a readonable LRIP price given the capabilities acquired.

Acquired ? all remain to be made.
So far this plane is capable of quite nothing.

Strangely Israel didn't use it recently (where a F16 was shooting down)... The same air force use its new F16 against Osirak nuclear reactor just one year after entering in the force. Same can't be made with F35.

 

[BON PLAN]

Remember these are LRIP prices. So they are substantially higher than production version prices. Anyway, in the case of Japan’s additional 25 order (based on your article) just divide $137.6 m by 3, since the article said that there’s a 50% price escalation in the fms transaction. So you get $91.2m as the actial price that Kapan should have paid under LRIP prices had it negotiated directly with LM. That’s a readonable LRIP price given the capabilities acquired.

If Japan is not in a hurry then it can wait for full production and negotiate with LM for a much lower unit price.

138 million each. Affordable LM said Sure !
A friend price....

 

[Immanuel]

funny. By choice.... incredible !

How about your ---- country build a aircraft that can hover and then discuss G limits, for the rest put a nice fat Carl Gustav up ------

 

[Immanuel]

7G after 10 years of developpment phase..... It's the end my dear.
No fighter in the world moved from 7 to 9G after 10 years of air test.

THE FLIGHT ENVELOPPE IS THE FIRST THING FULLY OPEN ON A PLANE. It's done until yearSSS for this flying brick.

the flight envelope is opened up when it safe to do so and when it comes to the F-35, virtually everything about it is revolutionary, it takes time. Tejas too had it's envelope opened up much later. Moreso, no other fighter has been tested as much as the F-35. It is perhaps the most comprehevive testing ever done on a fighter with already hundreds of pilots flying it, over 200 built. It is still 3 years away of more testing before FOC is earned. So let's not compare your piddy short years to testing to the F-35.

 

[Immanuel]

Acquired ? all remain to be made.
So far this plane is capable of quite nothing.

Strangely Israel didn't use it recently (where a F16 was shooting down)... The same air force use its new F16 against Osirak nuclear reactor just one year after entering in the force. Same can't be made with F35.

Again -------- you make French people look bad, no professional AF much like the Israelis will deploy half of the 9 or so planes they have with them achieving IOC a month before and to use them in an active combat situation especially when F-16s can do and did the job.

 

[Immanuel]

The first missile might fail but there will be a spare missile, and I think the USAF Aim9x fail was more of an excemption and by now was already fully investigated and rectified. Besides, you wouldn't rest your fate on the thought that the opponent's missile will fail?

Atleast US missiles are the most tested as well, Aim-9X, Aim-120s has been tested hundreds of time by now, if some fail during combat, you can be sure EU and Russian missiles are worse in terms of reliability

 

[asianobserve]

Acquired ? all remain to be made.
So far this plane is capable of quite nothing.

Strangely Israel didn't use it recently (where a F16 was shooting down)... The same air force use its new F16 against Osirak nuclear reactor just one year after entering in the force. Same can't be made with F35.

It could be a variety of factors from sufficiency of current IAF fighters' capabilities to deal with enemies in Syria, unfinished integration of Israeli systems on the F-35 and/or lack of operational doctrine (yet) within the IAF on how best to use the F-35. But rest assured that the F-35 will soon be the tip of the spear of the IAF in the ME.

 

[asianobserve]

Atleast US missiles are the most tested as well, Aim-9X, Aim-120s has been tested hundreds of time by now, if some fail during combat, you can be sure EU and Russian missiles are worse in terms of reliability

Still, if your the air force commander planning for an air sorties against a peer adversary you don't want to risk the lives of your pilots of or the success of your attack plan on the possibility that the opponent's missiles might fail. You always plan to destroy the enemies fighters without too much risk of your forces being shot down by them. That means you have to plan to engage them from BVR while avoiding WVR combat (dogfights) at all cost.

Of course, if your forces must engage in WVR combat then you make sure that they get the most training time as compared to the enemy for in dogfights pilots skills have more weight on the outcome of the fight than maneuverability or tech.

 

[Galaxy 7]

Atleast US missiles are the most tested as well, Aim-9X, Aim-120s has been tested hundreds of time by now, if some fail during combat, you can be sure EU and Russian missiles are worse in terms of reliability

Our inventory is filled with Russian Air to Air missiles

 

[asianobserve]

Acquired ? all remain to be made.
So far this plane is capable of quite nothing.

Strangely Israel didn't use it recently (where a F16 was shooting down)... The same air force use its new F16 against Osirak nuclear reactor just one year after entering in the force. Same can't be made with F35.

These promised capabilities are as good as acquired. Like the Rafale (which was complex for French industry) which took almost 20 years to develop, the F-35 is a cutting edge fighter that is equally testing the industrial and technological capacity of the US. Remember that the huge advances in capabilities in the F-35 compared to its predecessors should come at enormous cost, but which due to the number of orders being made are brought down to levels that are even cheaper than half or a generation earlier European offerings.

 

[asianobserve]

How is it that you are sooo full of shit, the flight envelope is opened up when it safe to do so and when it comes to the F-35, virtually everything about it is revolutionary, it takes time. Tejas too had it's envelope opened up much later. Moreso, no other fighter has been tested as much as the F-35. It is perhaps the most comprehevive testing ever done on a fighter with already hundreds of pilots flying it, over 200 built. It is still 3 years away of more testing before FOC is earned. So let's not compare your piddy short years to testing to the F-35.

He does not understand that the flight envelop of the F-35 is a matter of software. The 9G capability for example will be implemented in software 3f drop. But then again, he does not really want to hear it. I bet he is dreaming now that time gets stuck so that F-35 does not progress anymore and he can continually repeat his talking points. But this fellow is in for a serious disappointment.

 

[asianobserve]

Our inventory is filled with Russian Air to Air missiles

Russian AAM should be okay, you just have to constantly test and monitor it to make sure it is in top shape. But of course we do know that Russian products are most often overly advertised and quality challenged.

 

[BON PLAN]

How about your shitty country build a aircraft that can hover and then discuss G limits, for the rest put a nice fat Carl Gustav up your ass

or

 

[BON PLAN]

How is it that you are sooo full of shit, the flight envelope is opened up when it safe to do so and when it comes to the F-35, virtually everything about it is revolutionary, it takes time. Tejas too had it's envelope opened up much later. Moreso, no other fighter has been tested as much as the F-35. It is perhaps the most comprehevive testing ever done on a fighter with already hundreds of pilots flying it, over 200 built. It is still 3 years away of more testing before FOC is earned. So let's not compare your piddy short years to testing to the F-35.

7G. for life !
dream if you want.

 

[BON PLAN]

Atleast US missiles are the most tested as well, Aim-9X, Aim-120s has been tested hundreds of time by now, if some fail during combat, you can be sure EU and Russian missiles are worse in terms of reliability

once again, assertion .
Last AIM9X fired in combat against a russian old horse failed miserably. Facts, only facts.

 

[BON PLAN]

Our inventory is filled with Russian Air to Air missiles

Don't listen to this poor guy.
He knows absolutely nothing and when in the corner, only send insults.

 

[BON PLAN]

He does not understand that the flight envelop of the F-35 is a matter of software. The 9G capability for example will be implemented in software 3f drop. But then again, he does not really want to hear it. I bet he is dreaming now that time gets stuck so that F-35 does not progress anymore and he can continually repeat his talking points. But this fellow is in for a serious disappointment.

NO.
One problem come from a lack of rigidity of the engine. it can be managed by a new engine already on track (plane not FOC, but a new engine on the drawing board... . Maybe it will be a supercruiser with it....)
Another one is the poor aero of the frame. And this can't be changed. F35 is as aerodynamic as a piece of sugar.

 

[asianobserve]

NO.
One problem come from a lack of rigidity of the engine. it can be managed by a new engine already on track (plane not FOC, but a new engine on the drawing board... . Maybe it will be a supercruiser with it....)
Another one is the poor aero of the frame. And this can't be changed. F35 is as aerodynamic as a piece of sugar.

A fighter does not need to be able to supercruise to perform 9G maneuvers. Su-35 cannot supercruise and yet it can perform 9G maneuvers.

Besides, F-35 can achieve supercruise.