F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[Armand2REP]

Just take a look at the capabilities of AIM 9x in this video:

Let's take a look at the AIM-9X in a real world situation. Su-22 in full afterburner pops three flares and AIM-9X doesn't go after the most obvious target on the planet. Followed up by an AMRAAM kill.

 

[asianobserve]

Let's take a look at the AIM-9X in a real world situation. Su-22 in full afterburner pops three flares and AIM-9X doesn't go after the most obvious target on the planet. Followed up by an AMRAAM kill.

That incident was an anomaly. There are conflicting accounts from software designed to track only newer Soviet and Russian flares to other causes. In any case, the defect is remedied by now.

But the Russian pilot on board the newer Su-24 shot down by Turkey was not as lucky as the Syrian pilot:

 

[Armand2REP]

That incident was an anomaly. There are conflicting accounts from software designed to track only newer Soviet and Russian flares to other causes. In any case, the defect is remedied by now.

But the Russian pilot on board the newer Su-24 shot down by Turkey was not as lucky as the Syrian pilot:

Turkey shot that down with an AMRAAM so I don't get your point unless it is that the AIM-9X doesn't work.

 

[asianobserve]

Turkey shot that down with an AMRAAM so I don't get your point unless it is that the AIM-9X doesn't work.

The Turkish F-16 used an AIM9x to shoot down the Russian Su-24. Get your sources right.

 

[Armand2REP]

The Turkish F-16 used an AIM9x to shoot down the Russian Su-24. Get your sources right.

A pair of Turkish-owned Lockheed Martin F-16C fighters shot down the Fencer with AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature...ssian-su-24-what-we-know-dont-know-fear-14433

 

[asianobserve]

A pair of Turkish-owned Lockheed Martin F-16C fighters shot down the Fencer with AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature...ssian-su-24-what-we-know-dont-know-fear-14433

National Interest website is like the tabloid of websites. It just cannot be relied upon so I don't use it as primary source.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/shooting-down-of-russian-jet-how-the-day-unfolded

http://m.milliyet.com.tr/25-milyon-dolarlik-ucagi-100-bin-gundem-2153302/

 

[Armand2REP]

National Interest website is like the tabloid of websites. It just cannot be relied upon so I don't use it as primary source.

One of the Turkish F-16C Block40TM, received orders to shoot down one of the two Russian Su-24M bombers with a AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM air to air missile, from a distance of 50km.

http://blogs.plymouth.ac.uk/dcss/20...-su-24m-near-syrian-border-detailed-analysis/

Radar contact provided by Turkey showed the 50km shot was too far for an AIM-9X.

 

[asianobserve]

A US Defense official confirmed the use of AIM 9x to down Russian Su-24 but I can't anymore remember where I read it.

 

[BON PLAN]

AMRAAM capability came with the earlier 3i software.

Cannon firing is just fine in the F-35. It's smoother than Rafale.

Dassault will not give you any info on F-35 capabilities. Seriously though 9g has always been a software issue on the F-35A. It has always been slated to come with 3f software. It's only you and some F-35 bashers who were living in an alternate universe where F-35 is a 3rd gen fighter.

That's 9gs in every flying domain.

YES
NO
NOT AFTER 10 YEARS OF DEVELOPPMENT
NO.

 

[scatterStorm]

When you create a fighter jet that does too many things with software upgrades, things will take time to be full given FOC, some say that 3f software upgrade will give FOC but fighter pilots are having oxygen cylinder issues, fuel probe issue, HMD issue ... the list is long.

The actual FOC will not be before 2020 PERIOD
Unless Lockheed throw some money to shut up top brasses and clear FOC before 2020. Which has a very high possibility. Yes it can fire some of major weapon armaments but not everything is working at it's place.

 

[Immanuel]

Well no body said the FOC was slated now, realistically 2021 is the best they can do with the Block 4 drop and the final keys issues resolved, this will allow it to surpass it's competitors even more with GAN based AESA, DAS and upgraded EOTS & uprated engine on the way. Block 4 will also have many EU based weapons deployable from the F-35.

To say nothing is working is a big over statement, the aircraft has been subject to a test phase unlike any other and most of the tech onboard is revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Never have so many pilots from several AFs and services been involved in a detailed test & evolution phase. Once FOC is completed and the current users begin operationalizing their aircraft there is about to be a significant evolution in tactics and the platform will stabilize by 2022 well in time for a combined order for IAF & IN placed in 2023 for deliveries starting 2026/27

 

[scatterStorm]

Well no body said the FOC was slated now, realistically 2021 is the best they can do with the Block 4 drop and the final keys issues resolved, this will allow it to surpass it's competitors even more with GAN based AESA, DAS and upgraded EOTS & uprated engine on the way. Block 4 will also have many EU based weapons deployable from the F-35.

To say nothing is working is a big over statement, the aircraft has been subject to a test phase unlike any other and most of the tech onboard is revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Never have so many pilots from several AFs and services been involved in a detailed test & evolution phase. Once FOC is completed and the current users begin operationalizing their aircraft there is about to be a significant evolution in tactics and the platform will stabilize by 2022 well in time for a combined order for IAF & IN placed in 2023 for deliveries starting 2026/27

Yes it's a good jet, but operational cost is still high, given spare parts have to be flown from USA to the ally nation. In war scenarios, like IAF has experienced in the past, being denied GPS so we will refrain from buying F35s.
Since political parties come an go, each party has it's shift towards one major superpower. Who know, what will happen in 2023... wait they haven't' placed an order yet

 

[Immanuel]

Yes it's a good jet, but operational cost is still high, given spare parts have to be flown from USA to the ally nation. In war scenarios, like IAF has experienced in the past, being denied GPS so we will refrain from buying F35s.
Since political parties come an go, each party has it's shift towards one major superpower. Who know, what will happen in 2023... wait they haven't' placed an order yet

Not true, F-35 has plenty of parts coming from across the world. Operational costs can only drop further once production hit full pace. The flyaway cost of the F-35 and operational costs (which for the F-35 are calculated atleast in the US based on 55 years of service) and in the same league as the Rafale or EF at the moment. By 2023 when production is at roughly 1 F-35 per day and the mods, fixes on early gen blocks is complete the costs will go down and stabilize much more. IAF or IN latest sensors rely on GPS, GLONASS & IRNSS and use combined signals. You speak of a glitch that occured during a Brahmos missile test where the GPS signal blinked in the terminal face leading to minor failure in trajectory correction. This issue won't happen anymore. Moreso, if ever the F-35 is acquired for the IAF and IN, you can be sure we will insist on our own comms, datalinks, navigation modules, IFF etc just like we do for P-8I, C-130Js, C-17s, Apaches due next year, Chinooks due next year etc.

As for the F-35, it's chance in the IAF &/or IN are decent, I don't expect much movement on it now but if the FGFA deal fails, the F-35 possibility gets stronger specially for IN since an F-35B can easily take off from INS Vikky, IAC-1 and future LPDs for which San Antonio Class has the best chance of winning. F-35C would be an ideal fit for INS Vishal too (EMALS ready). A 70 aircraft F-35B order for IN can allow for 20 each to be based on INS Vikky & IAC-1 while the remaning 30 can be a flexi sqd allowing to push off from shore or from the future 4 LPDs. Having mini carriers provides a huge amount of operational flexibility for IN which needs to play a great roles in the IOR. When Japan, Australia and Soko operationalize the F-35B on the their respective LPDs there will be a big draw for the IN to follow suit especially when they see the benefits during future exchanges.

 

[BON PLAN]

F-35 has plenty of parts coming from across the world.

Yes, but the critical parts came all from USA.

And don't forget ALIS : Now USA can forced by a switch on the pentagon panel any F35 across the world to stay on ground (except maybe Israeli's one) .

And some days ago, it was revealed that all the datas collected by in flight F35 are sending to USA before coming back to the user. Remember iraki war N°2, with false datas about the supposed mass destruction weapon.... USA can (and will) filter or alter that datas. It's very serious.

 

[Immanuel]

Yes, but the critical parts came all from USA.

And don't forget ALIS : Now USA can forced by a switch on the pentagon panel any F35 across the world to stay on ground (except maybe Israeli's one) .

And some days ago, it was revealed that all the datas collected by in flight F35 are sending to USA before coming back to the user. Remember iraki war N°2, with false datas about the supposed mass destruction weapon.... USA can (and will) filter or alter that datas. It's very serious.

I believe such kill switches exist on Rafale, EF too, you mean to say if Egypt becomes a rogue state and threatens EU for some damned reason France can't kill the Rafale with switches?

Secondly, this can only happen if key parts such as IFF, Comms, datalinks are also OEM sourced, any F-35 buy would have Indian made datalinks, comms, IFF like all Indian buys of US made platforms.

Noted ALIS is currently overloaded but I expect things to be working smoothly by 2021 before FOC, we have to keep in mind there are over 200 F-35s while the aircraft is still in testing. No aircraft in hisotry has been subject to such an extensive test phase in such great numbers, it is therefore expected that the logistics of this excercise is tedious and takes time to stabilize.

 

[scatterStorm]

You speak of a glitch that occured during a Brahmos missile test where the GPS signal blinked in the terminal face leading to minor failure in trajectory correction.

Nope, it's with the PGM's where IAF pilots have to buy kits from Israel (I could be wrong) because our munitions required GPS not GLONASS to be dropped over enemy bunkers located at Siachen. Because GPS signals were denied, without of it, we couldn't drop munitions as they were incorrectly hitting targets. It's still a controversy.

Because of the denial we designed our own GAGAN and later IRNSS 7 satellite constellation. Now I know that it was done to prevent a nuclear war because our warheads would too utilize GPS or Inertial navigation etc.

But by doing that, IAF knew that dependence can be a tough bitch. If we succumbed to F35 than our own AMCA program would be dumped PERIOD

 

[Immanuel]

Nope, it's with the PGM's where IAF pilots have to buy kits from Israel (I could be wrong) because our munitions required GPS not GLONASS to be dropped over enemy bunkers located at Siachen. Because GPS signals were denied, without of it, we couldn't drop munitions as they were incorrectly hitting targets. It's still a controversy.

Because of the denial we designed our own GAGAN and later IRNSS 7 satellite constellation. Now I know that it was done to prevent a nuclear war because our warheads would too utilize GPS or Inertial navigation etc.

But by doing that, IAF knew that dependence can be a tough bitch. If we succumbed to F35 than our own AMCA program would be dumped PERIOD

IAF used Paveways on Mirages during Kargil, they did have a faulty part in the bomb which was remanufactured locally, we had sanctions placed on us and these LGBs were used using the ATLIS pod for targetting. AFAIK We had no issues related to GPS guidance except the failed Brahmos test which was rectified while relying on GLONASS, IRNSS & GAGAN. We still have plenty of Paveways in our inventory by the way.

When did IAF bomb anything in Siachen? You're confusing issues.

You are also fear mongering where non exists, fyi LCA Tejas MK-1 and MK-2 will use the GE F414, AMCA will most likely use a variant of the F414. CBU-105SFW are deployed on Jaguars along side Paveways, Griffin & Harpoons (on P-8I too along side MK-54 Torpedos). There are a host of US weapons & platforms already in use in IAF & IN. Heck our own IAC-1 uses Ge LM2500 engines for propulsion.

An F-35 buy wouldn't have to dump the AMCA, AMCA is a twin engine aircraft meant to replace Mig-29s and eventually MKI. It won't have FOC before 2030-32, well in time for the oldest Mig-29s to be replaced and MKI in phases.

F-35 is an ideal replacement for erstwhile Mig-27s & Mirages in the IAF while LCA will plug the gap for all the Mig-21s. Rafale is the ideal replacement for the Jaguar. Currently out of 100 or so Jags, only 60 will be upgraded further while 40+ will be slowly phased out by the time Rafale comes in. Hence a total requirement of roughly 72-100 Rafale is obvious.

 

[BON PLAN]

Don't seem the unit price of each bird going under 130-150 USD million.

LRIP 11 is just a joke.

 

[BON PLAN]

Just read that block 4 will arrived in 4 under block...
4.1
4.2
4.3
4.4

When you know the past, I'm afraid we will see 4.1A, 4.1B, 4.1C ....

 

[BON PLAN]

U.S. F-35 fighter modernization could cost $16 billion through 2024

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ld-cost-16-billion-through-2024-idUSKCN1GK02M