F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[BON PLAN]

Pentagon Moves Closer To Cutting Turkey's Role In The F-35 Program If It Buys S-400 SAMs

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ole-in-the-f-35-program-if-it-buys-s-400-sams

The Turkish S400 purchase is already inked, no?

 

[BON PLAN]

Taiwan Gives Up On F-35, Turns to F-16V Option

The air force turned its back on pursuing the F-35B short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) fighter due to a recent Taiwan National Security Council report. It indicated the stealth fighter was too exorbitant and untested in real combat to be a pragmatic choice for Taiwan.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/taiwan-gives-f-35-turns-f-16v-option-37332

 

[BON PLAN]

Israel to purchase new F15.
(strange no? .....)
http://psk.blog.24heures.ch/archive...gramme-f-15-israel-advanced-eagle-866572.html

 

[Immanuel]

Israel to purchase new F15.
(strange no? .....)
http://psk.blog.24heures.ch/archive...gramme-f-15-israel-advanced-eagle-866572.html

Israel has always had mix of twin and single engine fighters, you seem to not know the difference. With the oldest F-16s to be replaced with the F-35, the oldest F-15s will be replaced with this next gen version of the F-15 which for Israel is the best way forward, they have decades of experience fighting and winning with this aircraft, a newer, more powerful and updated bird is the best way forward. What's strange is how you have the logic worse than that of my 2.5 year old child?

Had the French been a bit more pro Israel perhaps they would have looked at the Rafale? But hey, they know US remains their strongest ally. Pity since Israel used to operate many French aircraft. Such a loss of a relationship.

Besides when it comes sheer bombing power, nothing comes close to the F-15

 

[BON PLAN]

Besides when it comes sheer bombing power, nothing comes close to the F-15

the same F15 lost technically against Rafale in Korea... don't forget that.

 

[Immanuel]

the same F15 lost technically against Rafale in Korea... don't forget that.

Even Rafale failed in Korea, so what are you on about . Besides this Israeli purchase isn't a competition, but a direct buy.

 

[BON PLAN]

Even Rafale failed in Korea, so what are you on about . Besides this Israeli purchase isn't a competition, but a direct buy.

Rafale won technically in Korea.
The Korean governt, facing uncle Sam disagrement, created a "special relationship" close, not in the tender, to change the result.

 

[Immanuel]

Also in 2002 to say the Rafale beat the F-15K overall is laughable. the F-15K is capable of a useful payload of over 10K kg with perhaps the widest set of weapons in active inventory, was coming with AESA (at that point Rafale had no AESA for another decade) and was a better choice strategically. The current state of affairs proves this point as well. It's better for SK to be aligned with the US than others.

In 2002 to bring the Rafale upto F-15K standards weapons and avionics wise would have cost them an arm and a leg. Besides it's not like France can really protect SK from NK. While US has several thousands of troops, plenty of dedicated squadrons not just to be a deterrent but also to fight along side when needed.

 

[BON PLAN]

Also in 2002 to say the Rafale beat the F-15K overall is laughable. the F-15K is capable of a useful payload of over 10K kg with perhaps the widest set of weapons in active inventory, was coming with AESA (at that point Rafale had no AESA for another decade) and was a better choice strategically. The current state of affairs proves this point as well. It's better for SK to be aligned with the US than others.

In 2002 to bring the Rafale upto F-15K standards weapons and avionics wise would have cost them an arm and a leg. Besides it's not like France can really protect SK from NK. While US has several thousands of troops, plenty of dedicated squadrons not just to be a deterrent but also to fight along side when needed.

Laugh all you can. It's a fact : rafale won technically.

 

[asianobserve]

Rafale won technically in Korea.
The Korean governt, facing uncle Sam disagrement, created a "special relationship" close, not in the tender, to change the result.

Says who? Boeing won the competition fair and square. In fact, the Israeli's recent decision to buy a new batch of F-15s only adds credence to the continued competitiveness of the F-15.

Dassault on the other tried to bribe South Korean officials to favor Rafale, and still lost.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dassault-drops-south-koreans-over-f-x-scandal-144806/

 

[Immanuel]

Funny thing is the F-15 is a workhorse and it appears will continue to be one for long time. With the latest kit and changes to the cockpit, more powerful engines and it's ability to lug a huge amount of ordnance is simply terrific.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...aim-120s-missiles-during-star-wars-canyon-run

The latest F-15s are by no means a easy kill especially when they lay down vast amounts of ammo at you. It is entirely not a surprise that SK went for it and it's not at all a surprise that Israel is looking the Silent Eagle.

 

[BON PLAN]

Says who? Boeing won the competition fair and square. In fact, the Israeli's recent decision to buy a new batch of F-15s only adds credence to the continued competitiveness of the F-15.

Dassault on the other tried to bribe South Korean officials to favor Rafale, and still lost.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/dassault-drops-south-koreans-over-f-x-scandal-144806/

LOL.
No. The Korean Air Force evaluated the rafale rank 1. But the Bush administration used the 40000+ US troop in the SK so as to force the hand of Korean top political rank.
And suddenly a close (not in the tender) in form of a political and strategical relationship occured.

It's just fact.

AESA on Rafale : The RBE2 AA (active antenna) was already on the drawing board in 2002. The final integration was inked in 2004.

 

[BON PLAN]

Funny thing is the F-15 is a workhorse and it appears will continue to be one for long time. With the latest kit and changes to the cockpit, more powerful engines and it's ability to lug a huge amount of ordnance is simply terrific.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...aim-120s-missiles-during-star-wars-canyon-run

The latest F-15s are by no means a easy kill especially when they lay down vast amounts of ammo at you. It is entirely not a surprise that SK went for it and it's not at all a surprise that Israel is looking the Silent Eagle.

How many AMRAAM was fired by the same plane in a real mission ? 2?

 

[Immanuel]

How many AMRAAM was fired by the same plane in a real mission ? 2?

Well has Rafale ever fired a A2A missile in combat, comparison to the F-15's A2A kills, the Rafale is a baby. The point here the F-15 has a great ability to be considered a missile and bomb truck and this is a great quality on itself. If an F-15 can deploy upto 12 missiles in combat if needed.

 

[Immanuel]

LOL.
No. The Korean Air Force evaluated the rafale rank 1. But the Bush administration used the 40000+ US troop in the SK so as to force the hand of Korean top political rank.
And suddenly a close (not in the tender) in form of a political and strategical relationship occured.

It's just fact.

AESA on Rafale : The RBE2 AA (active antenna) was already on the drawing board in 2002. The final integration was inked in 2004.

There is no real evidence of this, either way even if the Rafale did better in aerial performance which no one doubts, there is no way the Rafale could or still match the F-15 in useful payload, weapons types, overall ability to punish.

 

[BON PLAN]

There is no real evidence of this, either way even if the Rafale did better in aerial performance which no one doubts, there is no way the Rafale could or still match the F-15 in useful payload, weapons types, overall ability to punish.

Rafale agility is superior. Rafale carefree handling is superior. Rafale RCS is inferior. Rafale carry an integrated optronic system.
All depend of the criteria used for the match.

https://www.lesechos.fr/02/04/2002/...lt-fait-contre-mauvaise-fortune-bon-coeur.htm

"L'avantage de l'avion français s'est maintenu alors que, en cours de sélection, le gouvernement coréen a minoré la pondération des critères qui donnaient l'avantage au Rafale. A la fin, malgré ces manoeuvres, l'appareil aurait obtenu, selon des sources françaises autorisées, une note supérieure de 5 % à celle de son rival, pour un prix inférieur de 8 %. Cet écart de notation aurait ensuite mystérieusement fondu à 3 %, autorisant Séoul à lancer une deuxième phase d'évaluation où, cette fois, la dimension politique de l'alliance entre la Corée du Sud et les Etats-Unis devient déterminante."

=

"The advantage of the French aircraft was maintained while, under selection, the Korean government has reduced the weighting criteria that gave the advantage to the Rafale. In the end, despite these maneuvers, the Rafale would have obtained, according to authorized French sources, a score 5% higher than that of its rival, for a price lower than 8%. This rating gap would then mysteriously have melted to 3%, allowing Seoul to launch a second evaluation phase where, this time, the political dimension of the alliance between South Korea and the United States becomes decisive."

Les Echos = the most popular economic newspaper of France.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Laugh all you can. It's a fact : rafale won technically.

But what are the exact criteria?
With different requirements come different criteria that they will judge the aircraft on.
For example: if the criteria are having lower RCS, lower IR signature, able to take off from a carrier then Rafale will beat F-15 by a long shot.
On the other hand, if the criteria are: lly long distance, carrying an extremely heavy payload, having a massive radar then there is no way Rafale can even come close to F-15, which is physically a much bigger aircraft.
It like comparing a Formula 1 race car to a truck, if you want a contest of speed, a truck will lose, but if you want to carry a large amount of stuff over long distance, the truck will win.

Rafale agility is superior

What is the condition?

Rafale carry an integrated optronic system.

 

[BON PLAN]

Integrated optronic system.
Tiger eyes is not integrated.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Integrated optronic system.
Tiger eyes is not integrated.

also, some f-15 has a nose-mounted IRST

 

[Immanuel]

Rafale agility is superior. Rafale carefree handling is superior. Rafale RCS is inferior. Rafale carry an integrated optronic system.
All depend of the criteria used for the match.

https://www.lesechos.fr/02/04/2002/...lt-fait-contre-mauvaise-fortune-bon-coeur.htm

"L'avantage de l'avion français s'est maintenu alors que, en cours de sélection, le gouvernement coréen a minoré la pondération des critères qui donnaient l'avantage au Rafale. A la fin, malgré ces manoeuvres, l'appareil aurait obtenu, selon des sources françaises autorisées, une note supérieure de 5 % à celle de son rival, pour un prix inférieur de 8 %. Cet écart de notation aurait ensuite mystérieusement fondu à 3 %, autorisant Séoul à lancer une deuxième phase d'évaluation où, cette fois, la dimension politique de l'alliance entre la Corée du Sud et les Etats-Unis devient déterminante."

=

"The advantage of the French aircraft was maintained while, under selection, the Korean government has reduced the weighting criteria that gave the advantage to the Rafale. In the end, despite these maneuvers, the Rafale would have obtained, according to authorized French sources, a score 5% higher than that of its rival, for a price lower than 8%. This rating gap would then mysteriously have melted to 3%, allowing Seoul to launch a second evaluation phase where, this time, the political dimension of the alliance between South Korea and the United States becomes decisive."

Les Echos = the most popular economic newspaper of France.

we don't care about Los Leches the most popular newspaper in France. Sounds a lot like looser talk.