F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[Wisemarko]

No.
I answerd to this sentence : "Read somewhere donno where that France is looking to buy some F35 in small nos.
Is it true? "

No F35 for France. Never.

France cannot be trusted with F-35 tech. So yes, will never be offered.

 

[Wisemarko]

F-35 is a technological Marvel but they have overdid it and should have gone the twin engine sleeker route like Rafale

What is "overdid it"? Sleeker route like Rafale! Lol. F-22 is a twin engine design and lot has been learned from pros and cons of stealth fighters with one and twin engines. So please don't fall for silly arguments.

To be honest Germany should have instead put money on Typhoon renewal and bringing it's availability rate high first.

Germany is investing in Typhoon. F-35 will carry nukes, while Typhoons will be upgraded to work as escort jammers and fighters. It is not easy to explain on defense forums why all European nations want F-35: the classified tech briefing makes those decisions far simpler. Most recently, Switzerland and Finland picked the F-35 aircraft to replace legacy warplane fleets. The U.K., the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Denmark and Norway also are among the customers on the continent.

 

[Flying Dagger]

What is "overdid it"? Sleeker route like Rafale! Lol. F-22 is a twin engine design and lot has been learned from pros and cons of stealth fighters with one and twin engines. So please don't fall for silly arguments.


Germany is investing in Typhoon. F-35 will carry nukes, while Typhoons will be upgraded to work as escort jammers and fighters. It is not easy to explain on defense forums why all European nations want F-35: the classified tech briefing makes those decisions far simpler. Most recently, Switzerland and Finland picked the F-35 aircraft to replace legacy warplane fleets. The U.K., the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Denmark and Norway also are among the customers on the continent.

It can't supercruise... Will have high heat signature using afterburner. Isn't manuverable like raptor. That's not silly argument.

 

[Wisemarko]

It can't supercruise... Will have high heat signature using afterburner.

Supersonic flight presents a serious problem for a stealth strike aircraft.

No aircraft that flies supersonic has good infrared stealth while doing so, including the F-35 and the significantly stealthier F-22. This is due to the extra frictional heating and shockwaves generated by supersonic flight, and that extra heat cannot be hidden. The leading edges of the aircraft and the tip of the nose will heat up and so will the air flowing over them. Nothing can be done to hide this heat from a good infra red sensor once you get past Mach 1. Notice that the B-2 and its eventual replacement, the B-21 Raider, are both subsonic aircraft. This is to enable them to achieve a reasonable infra red stealth performance. Remember, Lockheed is a master of supercruise technology (YF-22) and reason for such limits are very well thought out.

F-35 is a strike aircraft that expects BVR combat- all mock fights it wins is using BVR missiles. Maneuverability is not considered game changer in new generation of fighters like we did in 1980s. You will notice less use of thrust vectoring, less top speed but high AoA ability in newer designs. Design philosophy is what decides performance.

 

[Fonck83]

BREAKING :
Pentagon to request 33 fewer Lockheed F-35s in next budget -Bloomberg News
The Pentagon will request 61 F-35 stealth warplanes from Lockheed Martin Corp in its next budget, 33 fewer than previously planned, Bloomberg News reported on Wednesday, citing people familiar with the matter.
March 16 (Reuters) - The Pentagon will request 61 F-35 stealth warplanes from Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) in its next budget, 33 fewer than previously planned, Bloomberg News reported on Wednesday, citing people familiar with the matter.

Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon did not immediately respond to Reuters requests for comment.

Shares of the weapons maker, whose biggest customer is the U.S. government, were down 1.1% before the bell.

The F-35 is one of the world's most advanced fighter aircraft and is considered a highly sensitive export, sold only to the United States' closest allies.

Reuters reported last month that President Joe Biden is expected to ask Congress for a defense budget exceeding $770 billion for the next fiscal year as the Pentagon seeks to modernize the military. read more

The budget is expected to benefit the biggest U.S. defense contractors, including Lockheed, Northrop Grumman Corp (NOC.N) and General Dynamics Corp .

 

[johnj]

Supersonic flight presents a serious problem for a stealth strike aircraft.

No aircraft that flies supersonic has good infrared stealth while doing so, including the F-35 and the significantly stealthier F-22. This is due to the extra frictional heating and shockwaves generated by supersonic flight, and that extra heat cannot be hidden. The leading edges of the aircraft and the tip of the nose will heat up and so will the air flowing over them. Nothing can be done to hide this heat from a good infra red sensor once you get past Mach 1. Notice that the B-2 and its eventual replacement, the B-21 Raider, are both subsonic aircraft. This is to enable them to achieve a reasonable infra red stealth performance. Remember, Lockheed is a master of supercruise technology (YF-22) and reason for such limits are very well thought out.

F-35 is a strike aircraft that expects BVR combat- all mock fights it wins is using BVR missiles. Maneuverability is not considered game changer in new generation of fighters like we did in 1980s. You will notice less use of thrust vectoring, less top speed but high AoA ability in newer designs. Design philosophy is what decides performance.

Thrust vectoring and more top speed is important, also high AoA. JSF aka F 35 is the best 5th gen strike fighter till now, I don,t understand why comparing it with F 22, its like comparing su 34 vs su 35. EU and other countries buying F 35 becz its only 5th gen available in market and ensure spare and support beyond 2070.
No country consider buying F 35 for 4.5gen replacement except cash rich.
You can deny that F 35 having supersonic issues. Also f35 can do its job with or with out supersonic speed with stand off weapons. Also loyal wingman, 6th gen provide air defence if needed in future.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Supersonic flight presents a serious problem for a stealth strike aircraft.

No aircraft that flies supersonic has good infrared stealth while doing so, including the F-35 and the significantly stealthier F-22. This is due to the extra frictional heating and shockwaves generated by supersonic flight, and that extra heat cannot be hidden. The leading edges of the aircraft and the tip of the nose will heat up and so will the air flowing over them. Nothing can be done to hide this heat from a good infra red sensor once you get past Mach 1. Notice that the B-2 and its eventual replacement, the B-21 Raider, are both subsonic aircraft. This is to enable them to achieve a reasonable infra red stealth performance. Remember, Lockheed is a master of supercruise technology (YF-22) and reason for such limits are very well thought out.

F-35 is a strike aircraft that expects BVR combat- all mock fights it wins is using BVR missiles. Maneuverability is not considered game changer in new generation of fighters like we did in 1980s. You will notice less use of thrust vectoring, less top speed but high AoA ability in newer designs. Design philosophy is what decides performance.

You may expect BVR combat all the time but that's not how things will play out .

 

[Wisemarko]

You may expect BVR combat all the time but that's not how things will play out .

Agree, time will tell. All new tech face scrutiny of reality.

 

[BON PLAN]

You may expect BVR combat all the time but that's not how things will play out .

Facts are that few jets were destroyed at more than 25km. 25km is not really what we means BVR... 25km is inside the range of electro optical system, so don't need radar to target.

BVR is a USA dream. It may occur, but once a serious war with two efficient air forces, it will be difficult to avoid friendly fire with the air overflowed by electronic counter measures. The jets will have to be nearer and nearer for a positiv identification.

 

[johnj]

Facts are that few jets were destroyed at more than 25km. 25km is not really what we means BVR... 25km is inside the range of electro optical system, so don't need radar to target.

BVR is a USA dream. It may occur, but once a serious war with two efficient air forces, it will be difficult to avoid friendly fire with the air overflowed by electronic counter measures. The jets will have to be nearer and nearer for a positiv identification.

For achieving bvr, aew is used, but it effect gets limited by electronic warfare measures.
USA uses previous data of enemy to identify target at long range and iff. Sensor fusion also helps.
Introduction of stealth reduces chances of track/identify at long range and like you said 'jets will have to be nearer and nearer for a positively identification.'
USA now considering developing air search uav which fly ahead of jets to identify targets at long range.

 

[Wisemarko]

Facts are that few jets were destroyed at more than 25km. 25km is not really what we means BVR... 25km is inside the range of electro optical system, so don't need radar to target.
BVR is a USA dream.

Oh yeah? Why even bother making and selling meteor then, huh?

With thinking as ancient as yours, no wonder your neighbors are running away from your products.

 

[BON PLAN]

Oh yeah? Why even bother making and selling meteor then, huh?

With thinking as ancient as yours, no wonder your neighbors are running away from your products.

2 answers :
-For french Armée de l'air, Meteor is seen as a tanker and a AEW killer, far more than a fighter killer. It is why no more than 150 were purchased (it has been slightly increase if I remember well)
-For Dassault it was impossible to leave the 2 other Eurocanards with Meteor and not the Rafale. Meteor on Rafale is mainly a marketing move (you know, marketing : the main asset of Lockeed Martin).

Our Neighbors are all in the USA hands. It's not surprising. But some country that are really near a war are purchasing our birds for decades : Greece, India, Egypt...

 

[Flying Dagger]

Oh yeah? Why even bother making and selling meteor then, huh?

With thinking as ancient as yours, no wonder your neighbors are running away from your products.

What's wrong with having Meteor at your disposal ?

NEZ is more in comparison to other missiles so are chances of hitting the target.

But it doesn't mean the fighter jet which carries it won't find itself in a situation where enemy fighter jet is in close proximity. That's why MICA IR/RF Python ASRAAM etc are also employed by the same fighter jet carrying Meteor.

 

[Flying Dagger]

2 answers :
-For french Armée de l'air, Meteor is seen as a tanker and a AEW killer, far more than a fighter killer. It is why no more than 150 were purchased (it has been slightly increase if I remember well)
-For Dassault it was impossible to leave the 2 other Eurocanards with Meteor and not the Rafale. Meteor on Rafale is mainly a marketing move (you know, marketing : the main asset of Lockeed Martin).

Our Neighbors are all in the USA hands. It's not surprising. But some country that are really near a war are purchasing our birds for decades : Greece, India, Egypt...

Add high cost due to lower number in comparison to USA. That's the real reason many avoid French products. Offcourse political influence is another.

The only way to keep cost down and keep the war machine factories operational is having multiple partners like Germany etc coming together.

 

[Wisemarko]

2 answers :
-For french Armée de l'air, Meteor is seen as a tanker and a AEW killer, far more than a fighter killer.
-For Dassault it was impossible to leave the 2 other Eurocanards with Meteor and not the Rafale. Meteor on Rafale is mainly a marketing move..

So you sold India "tanker and awacs killer" Meteor Are you reading this IAF!? You beat everyone at marketing.

 

[BON PLAN]

F-35 Program Stagnated in 2021 but DOD Testing Office Hiding Full Extent of Problem

Despite more than 20 years and approximately $62.5 billion spent so far on research and development alone, program officials still haven’t been able to deliver an aircraft that can fly as often as needed or to demonstrate its ability to perform in combat, which places military personnel in jeopardy.

• The F-35’s availability rates “plateaued” over most of 2021 and then declined in the final months of the year.
• Program leaders abandoned the efforts to complete the troubled Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) and instead decided to build a new network called Operational Data Integrated Network (ODIN). The new system, meant to anticipate maintenance problems and track parts and repair processes, runs faster and is more deployable than ALIS but is already behind schedule and has some of the same cyber vulnerabilities.
• The Joint Simulation Environment, meant to be a high-fidelity and fully validated and verified simulator to test the F-35’s high-end capabilities, is now more than four years behind schedule. A full-production decision can’t be made until the planned 64 tests in the simulation can be completed.
• The F-35 program’s modernization effort, an effort to complete the delivery of capabilities that should have been included under the original development contract, is behind schedule and has done little to reduce the high number of unresolved design flaws.

https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2022/03/f-35-program-stagnated-in-2021-but-dod-testing-office-hiding-full-extent-of-problem/?utm_term=national+security&utm_campaign=social&utm_source=pogotwitter&utm_medium=link&utm_content=live

 

[Wisemarko]

F-35 Program Stagnated in 2021 but DOD Testing Office Hiding Full Extent of Problem

Despite more than 20 years and approximately $62.5 billion spent so far on research and development alone, program officials still haven’t been able to deliver an aircraft that can fly as often as needed or to demonstrate its ability to perform in combat, which places military personnel in jeopardy.

• The F-35’s availability rates “plateaued” over most of 2021 and then declined in the final months of the year.
• Program leaders abandoned the efforts to complete the troubled Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) and instead decided to build a new network called Operational Data Integrated Network (ODIN). The new system, meant to anticipate maintenance problems and track parts and repair processes, runs faster and is more deployable than ALIS but is already behind schedule and has some of the same cyber vulnerabilities.
• The Joint Simulation Environment, meant to be a high-fidelity and fully validated and verified simulator to test the F-35’s high-end capabilities, is now more than four years behind schedule. A full-production decision can’t be made until the planned 64 tests in the simulation can be completed.
• The F-35 program’s modernization effort, an effort to complete the delivery of capabilities that should have been included under the original development contract, is behind schedule and has done little to reduce the high number of unresolved design flaws.

https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2022/03/f-35-program-stagnated-in-2021-but-dod-testing-office-hiding-full-extent-of-problem/?utm_term=national+security&utm_campaign=social&utm_source=pogotwitter&utm_medium=link&utm_content=live

A terrible F-35 outsells and outclasses Rafale 4 to 1 in sales. World must be so stupid..

 

[asianobserve]

A terrible F-35 outsells and outclasses Rafale 4 to 1 in sales. World must be so stupid..
View attachment 145328

Go easy on the Frenchman... But it was some sort of an insult to everyone's intelligence here that a 4.5th gen Rafale is beyter than 5th gen F-35.

 

[Soldier355]

The US Navy has revealed the inability of fifth-generation F-35 fighters to withstand sea salt. Rust stains have become visible on the planes, there is corrosion of the outer skin.

 

[asianobserve]

The US Navy has revealed the inability of fifth-generation F-35 fighters to withstand sea salt. Rust stains have become visible on the planes, there is corrosion of the outer skin.

Most likely those are not corrosion. There is no sign of delamination or cracking of the stealth coating. Besides, the fuselage of F-35 is composite and aluminum and will not rust like steel. Also, F-35Bs of USMC and RN have beem at sea longer than F-35Cs and yet it does not show similar appearance.