F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[BON PLAN]

@BON PLAN Why isn’t France into 5th generation aircrafts? I thought yo guys are already working on one...

Rafale is more a 5th gen than F35 !
Rafale is not a VLO but at least a LO, but is >> agile than F16 (not to speak of F35...) , is supercruising, is sensor fusion fitted.

 

[BON PLAN]

Reports of F-35’s demise are greatly exaggerated

Reports of F-35’s demise are greatly exaggerated - Global Defence Technology | Issue 121 | March 2021

The US Air Force Chief of Staff has countered claims that the F-35 has ‘failed’ as the US Air Force looks into alternatives for replacement of the F-16.

defence.nridigital.com

Exagerated? may be. But not false. And that more than 15 years after the first flight of preserial one !

 

[FalconSlayers]

Reports of F-35’s demise are greatly exaggerated

Reports of F-35’s demise are greatly exaggerated - Global Defence Technology | Issue 121 | March 2021

The US Air Force Chief of Staff has countered claims that the F-35 has ‘failed’ as the US Air Force looks into alternatives for replacement of the F-16.

defence.nridigital.com

Exagerated? may be. But not false. And that more than 15 years after the first flight of preserial one !

F-35 is more of a rich man’s ferrari. Maintenance cost, per hour flight cost, High cost of the aircraft itself.

 

[Lonewolf]

Reports of F-35’s demise are greatly exaggerated

Reports of F-35’s demise are greatly exaggerated - Global Defence Technology | Issue 121 | March 2021

The US Air Force Chief of Staff has countered claims that the F-35 has ‘failed’ as the US Air Force looks into alternatives for replacement of the F-16.

defence.nridigital.com

Exagerated? may be. But not false. And that more than 15 years after the first flight of preserial one !

You hate it from deepest of your heart don't you.

They should use f 22, as base and fit it with f 35 avionics ,and replace older material with newer tech

 

[FalconSlayers]

You hate it from deepest of your heart don't you.

They should use f 22, as base and fit it with f 35 avionics ,and replace older material with newer tech

F-35 is actually a failure, not because it is trash, but because it is unable to replace the aircrafts the USAF intended to. Its too costly to procure, maintain and fly.

 

[Lonewolf]

Reports of F-35’s demise are greatly exaggerated

Reports of F-35’s demise are greatly exaggerated - Global Defence Technology | Issue 121 | March 2021

The US Air Force Chief of Staff has countered claims that the F-35 has ‘failed’ as the US Air Force looks into alternatives for replacement of the F-16.

defence.nridigital.com

Exagerated? may be. But not false. And that more than 15 years after the first flight of preserial one !

Would you like it give more insight to fcas of france than basic pr video and poster if you have , what class of fighter would it be , what kind of engine , armament , cockpit , swarm drone , stealth requirements and all

 

[panzerfeist1]

I thought this was funny so here. https://qr.ae/pN0qXd

 

[Edinburgh]

Stealth fighter can not completely replace the 4th generation fighter，Because of the need for stealth, can not hang missiles outside, and the bomb load is not enough.

Stealth fighters need to be matched with 4th heavy fighters, which may be why the United States also buys the F15E.At the same time, China developed the J-16 fighter. They all put the radar, electronic equipment and battlefield perception equipment of the fifth generation fighters into the fourth generation fighters, and then achieve a certain degree of stealth through composite materials.
Bomb load is the weakness of stealth fighter.

 

[WARREN SS]

Stealth fighter can not completely replace the 4th generation fighter，Because of the need for stealth, can not hang missiles outside, and the bomb load is not enough.

Stealth fighters need to be matched with 4th heavy fighters, which may be why the United States also buys the F15E.At the same time, China developed the J-16 fighter. They all put the radar, electronic equipment and battlefield perception equipment of the fifth generation fighters into the fourth generation fighters, and then achieve a certain degree of stealth through composite materials.
Bomb load is the weakness of stealth fighter.

Lol tell that to F22 raptor

There purpose for which it created to total air dominance in the battle between

Still persistent to take technology step further into another dimension

 

[WARREN SS]

Rafale is more a 5th gen than F35 !
Rafale is not a VLO but at least a LO, but is >> agile than F16 (not to speak of F35...) , is supercruising, is sensor fusion fitted.

Lol agile means
Less in 21 st century than in Ww2

Today modern WVRAAMs like ASRAAM ,MICA IR and Aim-9X made these agility innl Aircombat out dated.

New Updated F-35A shown various Degrees of AOA that good enough to match any fighter in US or European inventory
Its TWR of 1.07 at 50 % internal fuel with Four A2A missiles is match for that of rafale.

Its engines are already cruise at 1.2 mach without afterburning with 120 kN but longer use may result loss to Ram coatings that is it Avoided
Its already mentioned

Many fighters use Can't fly Supersonic more than minute
Unless they want fuel to exhaust early


In RCS value F-35 already out matches rafale in long miles let's not count RCS of loaded Rafale

With amount of Sensors F-35 has it will able Sense Rafale miles away before getting detected

As for future

BAE is already in talks with MBDA for Meteor integration

And US in process of making AIM-260 JATM & LREW as uts primary BVR weapon in next 4-5 years
That will make F-35 in future even more deadly beast

PS:
Yes F-35 is failure but its considered
Failure for its lack of universal utility in US armed forces not because its lacks
Power punch infact

F-35 has not counter even today in modern air combat accept F-22

Russians and Chinese are still
Touching up there semi stealth craps
Struggling with even more failures than F-35 project.

 

[BON PLAN]

F-35 is more of a rich man’s ferrari. Maintenance cost, per hour flight cost, High cost of the aircraft itself.

Indeed.
It remember me what a swiss mechanic guy explain me some years ago, about some of its rich clients using Porsche for the week and Ferrari for the week end, because it was just impossible to be late at work.
F35 is a Ferrari.
Rafale is a Porsche.

 

[BON PLAN]

Lol agile means
Less in 21 st century than in Ww2

Today modern WVRAAMs like ASRAAM ,MICA IR and Aim-9X made these agility innl Aircombat out dated.

New Updated F-35A shown various Degrees of AOA that good enough to match any fighter in US or European inventory
Its TWR of 1.07 at 50 % internal fuel with Four A2A missiles is match for that of rafale.

Its engines are already cruise at 1.2 mach without afterburning with 120 kN but longer use may result loss to Ram coatings that is it Avoided
Its already mentioned

Many fighters use Can't fly Supersonic more than minute
Unless they want fuel to exhaust early


In RCS value F-35 already out matches rafale in long miles let's not count RCS of loaded Rafale

With amount of Sensors F-35 has it will able Sense Rafale miles away before getting detected

As for future

BAE is already in talks with MBDA for Meteor integration

And US in process of making AIM-260 JATM & LREW as uts primary BVR weapon in next 4-5 years
That will make F-35 in future even more deadly beast

PS:
Yes F-35 is failure but its considered
Failure for its lack of universal utility in US armed forces not because its lacks
Power punch infact

F-35 has not counter even today in modern air combat accept F-22

Russians and Chinese are still
Touching up there semi stealth craps
Struggling with even more failures than F-35 project.

LM new speciality : false promises.

T/W ratio? Rafale empty : less than 10T. 75% fuel = 3tons. 2 MICA + 2 Meteor : 600kg. T/W ratio = 1.1 ! With a far better aero shape, so less need to use the full after burner (F35 use it may times because shaped as a sugar piece).

No, F35 can't supercruise.The Mach 1.2 without afterburner is only suitable for a max of 150km, after using full AB to reach higher mach. (I add that the supercruise LM own definition is not for just mach 1.2 .... but higher)
And We now know thanks to GB, that F35 can't fly higher tyhan mach 1,2 (with or without AB) because higher the stealth coating near the engine vanished....

No need of agility ? Why F22 is thrust vectored? Why did it win against a slightly less agile but faster and with more ranged YF23?

Meteor integration ? To be seen. Now thak GB officially explain they will not purchase more than 48 units (against a initial target of 138...) they lack a big customer.

AIM260 : a nice paper project. A US speciality the paper projects. Let's speak of it when it will be a reality, with real performances and not a beautifull powerpoint explaining it is far better despitebeeing smaller and lighter....

 

[BON PLAN]

Lol agile means
Less in 21 st century than in Ww2

Today modern WVRAAMs like ASRAAM ,MICA IR and Aim-9X made these agility innl Aircombat out dated.

New Updated F-35A shown various Degrees of AOA that good enough to match any fighter in US or European inventory
Its TWR of 1.07 at 50 % internal fuel with Four A2A missiles is match for that of rafale.

Its engines are already cruise at 1.2 mach without afterburning with 120 kN but longer use may result loss to Ram coatings that is it Avoided
Its already mentioned

Many fighters use Can't fly Supersonic more than minute
Unless they want fuel to exhaust early


In RCS value F-35 already out matches rafale in long miles let's not count RCS of loaded Rafale

With amount of Sensors F-35 has it will able Sense Rafale miles away before getting detected

As for future

BAE is already in talks with MBDA for Meteor integration

And US in process of making AIM-260 JATM & LREW as uts primary BVR weapon in next 4-5 years
That will make F-35 in future even more deadly beast

PS:
Yes F-35 is failure but its considered
Failure for its lack of universal utility in US armed forces not because its lacks
Power punch infact

F-35 has not counter even today in modern air combat accept F-22

Russians and Chinese are still
Touching up there semi stealth craps
Struggling with even more failures than F-35 project.

Could France’s F4 Dassault Rafale Beat Out the F-35 in Europe?

How stealthy is it?

nationalinterest.org

"The Rafale is much more agile than the F-35, with superior climb rate, sustained turn performance, and ability to super-cruise (maintain supersonic flight without using fuel-gulping afterburners) at Mach 1.4 while carrying weapons. "

 

[FalconSlayers]

Could France’s F4 Dassault Rafale Beat Out the F-35 in Europe?

How stealthy is it?

nationalinterest.org

"The Rafale is much more agile than the F-35, with superior climb rate, sustained turn performance, and ability to super-cruise (maintain supersonic flight without using fuel-gulping afterburners) at Mach 1.4 while carrying weapons. "

Rafale F4 is going to be better but what are the differences in F4 and F3R currently in service?

 

[WARREN SS]

Could France’s F4 Dassault Rafale Beat Out the F-35 in Europe?

How stealthy is it?

nationalinterest.org

"The Rafale is much more agile than the F-35, with superior climb rate, sustained turn performance, and ability to super-cruise (maintain supersonic flight without using fuel-gulping afterburners) at Mach 1.4 while carrying weapons. "

What is TWR of Rafale with 50 % fuel and 4 A2 A

Writing agile means nothing in technical terms???

Even F-15,F/A-18 doesn't have super cruise or even our su-27, Su-30

And many other air craft out there.

Only few aircraft designed for supercruise.


Supercruise just like cobra mauevers it looks and sound great but has moderate combat value
It has no practical use in Aircombat or Advantages accept when you escaping BVR locks at long range

But in modern era of Sophisticated DRFM and And Escort Jamming
Supercruise play has very moderate to low role.

Accept if u have to burn fuel and reduce you ferry range in missions.

Most of the pilots
Fly fighters on Dry thrust not afterburners
Maintaining speed of 0.5 to 0.9 mach

Fighters fly hardly 1-2 minutes of supersonic fight
If required in mission

F-16 can goes supersonic for 110 seconds to 130 seconds in intervals with 5 stages.

F-35 can fly upto 85 seconds that's 1 minute 25 seconds of supersonic flight in 1.3 mach
Using it more will cause harm to its RAM coatings
That will compromise stealth.

 

[WARREN SS]

If one still having Doubts
One can always read

1
https://www.quora.com/following



15 Answers

Peter Kämpf, Aerospace engineer, private pilot
Updated July 21, 2016 · Upvoted by John Chesire, Former US Navy Fighter Pilot


Flying supersonically still means two to three times higher drag coefficients, and flying at twice the speed means four times more drag. In total, when you compare flight at Mach 0.8 with flight at Mach 1.6, the absolute drag at the higher speed is easily 10 times higher. Yes, it only takes half as long to reach your target, but you still need 5 times more fuel - even in supercruise.
When the first generation of supersonic-capable aircraft was used in real conflicts, something very surprising and unforeseen happened: They did hardly ever fly supersonic. When the Air Force in the late Sixties accumulated the flight data from several years of Vietnam war air combat, they found that all aircraft had accumulated just minutes at Mach 1.4 and only seconds at Mach 1.6 out of more than 100,000 combat sorties¹. Never was even Mach 1.8 flown in aircraft which had been optimized for Mach 2.4 (F-104, F-105, F-106A, F-4D/E and F-111).
To cite from this study why speed stayed mostly subsonic:

The first of these reasons lies in the shape of the turn rate vs Mach number relationship for an aircraft. […] In combat, each pilot has the tendency to to fly his aircraft so as to maximize his turn rate. He thus gains angular position on the enemy which, in turn, may permit a missile launch or a gun firing. […] It can be seen that the pilot's urge to maximize his turn rate will unfailingly drive his Mach number to about 0.7. Thus, if the pilot is going to join in combat, […] his speed will inevitably drop to subsonic speeds. […] Note also, that even if the turn rate is held constant while increasing the speed, […] the turn radius and load factor increase, bringing with it increasing problems of keeping the enemy in sight.

The second reason given in the study is the dramatically smaller combat radius (the maximum distance the airplane can travel from its base, accomplish an objective and return) once the aircraft starts to fly at supersonic speeds. Even for flying into the combat arena supersonic speed was rarely advantageous. Northrop studied a multitude of intercept cases and found that speeds above Mach 1.1 were almost never helpful because they curtailed the combat radius severely. Supercruise will help, but only a little: The supersonic fighter is still sucking its tanks empty at 5 times the rate for the same distance covered than the subsonic fighter. To stay useful, the fighter must be made larger so its supercruise capabilities can be used at all.
Now you need to know that the top speed is an important driver in airframe design. Flying supersonically requires heavy and complex intakes, a heat-resistant structure, high wing sweep and heavy, low-bypass engines. This all degrades the combat qualities at high subsonic speed where fighters will be used the most. Optimizing them for supercruise makes them larger, heavier, more expensive and worse for what they are actually intended for. However, supercruise is a by-product of modern and stealthy fighters. Their trust-to-weight ratio (which is needed in subsonic combat) is sufficient to fly them at supersonic speed at maximum dry thrust. Still, supercruise might not be the smartest tactical choice in many situations.
My answer: Supercruise is not much of an advantage. It is better to restrict the speed envelope so the fighter can be more efficient in all other missions.
¹ Source: Northrop F-5 case study in aircraft design, AIAA Professional Study Series

How important an advantage is it for a jet fighter to have supercruise?

Answer (1 of 5): Flying supersonically still means two to three times higher drag coefficients, and flying at twice the speed means four times more drag. In total, when you compare flight at Mach 0.8 with flight at Mach 1.6, the absolute drag at the higher speed is easily 10 times higher. Yes, it...

www.quora.com

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale F4 is going to be better but what are the differences in F4 and F3R currently in service?

F4 will be a communication node as F35.
More weapons integrated (for exemple 1000kg Hammer bomb)
New IRST, new radar mode, GaN Spectra antennae, new Spectra mode, active decoys, some said a new GaN Radar antenna.
Mica NG.

 

[BON PLAN]

What is TWR of Rafale with 50 % fuel and 4 A2 A

Empty rafale : 10 tons (slightly less), 2 tons of fuel, 450 kg if 4 Mica, 600 kg if 2 MICA and 2 Meteor, equipped pilot 120kg .
in the worst situation, 12720Kg for 15000kg thrust. => T/W = 1.17

 

[BON PLAN]

Supercruise just like cobra mauevers it looks and sound great but has moderate combat value
It has no practical use in Aircombat or Advantages accept when you escaping BVR locks at long range

I don't agree.
Supercruise give the ability to cruise fast with low fuel consumption versus non supercruising fighter. You can chase a liner without using AB when another one will burn far more fuel using it.
I don't think if it is often used, but it's an asset. And it give some information of how potent is the aero of your plane.

 

[WARREN SS]

Empty rafale : 10 tons (slightly less), 2 tons of fuel, 450 kg if 4 Mica, 600 kg if 2 MICA and 2 Meteor, equipped pilot 120kg .
in the worst situation, 12720Kg for 15000kg thrust. => T/W = 1.17

F-35 has TWR of 0.87 with full fuel (1.07 with 50% fuel, 1.19 with 25% fuel)

That is decent for F-35A
IOC clear Variant

While F-16 has 1.09 and f-15 has 1.04

While Su-30 has 0.9 to 1 mach for same.

If asked me its decent agoinf aby technological advantage F-35 has over Adversaries
Specifically in Sensor fusion