F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

WARREN SS

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I don't agree.
Supercruise give the ability to cruise fast with low fuel consumption versus non supercruising fighter. You can chase a liner without using AB when another one will burn far more fuel using it.
I don't think if it is often used, but it's an asset. And it give some information of how potent is the aero of your plane.
Then we should stick are opnions.
But I posted a Technical study from Top notch
Aviation firm like Northrop which was
Industry giant for Decades

There are many Legacy era fighters that has no supercruise ability
And still serving great for ther AF
F/A-18,F-15 to Mirage-2000 and others
 

BON PLAN

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Then we should stick are opnions.
But I posted a Technical study from Top notch
Aviation firm like Northrop which was
Industry giant for Decades

There are many Legacy era fighters that has no supercruise ability
And still serving great for ther AF
F/A-18,F-15 to Mirage-2000 and others
Indeed.
Supercruise is an asset, and just an asset. As agility or stealth.
You can win a card play without asset. It is just more easy with than without.
 

panzerfeist1

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Russians and Chinese are still
Touching up there semi stealth craps
Struggling with even more failures than F-35 project.
If your referring to RCS figures than by default the Su-70 can defeat a F-35 and F-22 that there would be no point in investing in Su-57s or upgrading them.
 

WARREN SS

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If your referring to RCS figures than by default the Su-70 can defeat a F-35 and F-22 that there would be no point in investing in Su-57s or upgrading them.
WHY DO YOU Think IAF rejected it after investing 300-400 million $

Su-57 is failed project of Old aviation giant which is struggling with contemporary realities.

Indian aviation sector came matured enough
To match Russians by end of this decade.
With AMCA and MWF it will outfit Russian aviation
 

BON PLAN

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ALL IS SAID

"… stop throwing money down that particular rathole.” He said, “What does the F-35 give us? And is there a way to cut our losses? Is there a way to not keep spending that much money for such a low capability because, as you know, the sustainment costs are brutal.”

 

panzerfeist1

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WHY DO YOU Think IAF rejected it after investing 300-400 million $

Su-57 is failed project of Old aviation giant which is struggling with contemporary realities.

Indian aviation sector came matured enough
To match Russians by end of this decade.
With AMCA and MWF it will outfit Russian aviation
I hate to say this but India reminds me of Turkey pursuing their own 5th gen project. IAF did not have any access to anechoic chambers and their rejection was based on tech transfer, and disagreeing with a tech transfer trust was lost with Russia's accusation before selling their submarines to them. Sort of like the same paranoia the U.S. has with Turkey operating both S-400 and F-35.
 

SARTHAK

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I hate to say this but India reminds me of Turkey pursuing their own 5th gen project. IAF did not have any access to anechoic chambers and their rejection was based on tech transfer, and disagreeing with a tech transfer trust was lost with Russia's accusation before selling their submarines to them. Sort of like the same paranoia the U.S. has with Turkey operating both S-400 and F-35.
1.su57 has changed overtime including new grille of ram for intakes and new finishing in production models ,so stealth improved as req by iaf previously
2.most important point that led to cancellation of su57 was russians not willing to share tech
 

WARREN SS

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I hate to say this but India reminds me of Turkey pursuing their own 5th gen project. IAF did not have any access to anechoic chambers and their rejection was based on tech transfer, and disagreeing with a tech transfer trust was lost with Russia's accusation before selling their submarines to them. Sort of like the same paranoia the U.S. has with Turkey operating both S-400 and F-35.
Lol DRDO labs has its own abechoic chamber facilities
For UMB GAN AESA for AMCA and Uttam AESA both
Already in there advanced development phase

While Russians DSPSU relics doesn't even started 🙄 on GAN technology 🙄
Lol they don't even 🤣 have research paper on it.

India is forced to purchase substandard and untested S-100 series Air defenses old Due to geopolitical compulsions with vodka Brothers

Barak-8 or LR SAM supercedes any missiles in
S-400 for anti aircraft role with better Seeker technology.

PDV2 anti ballistic missile can target object flying at
25 mach at apogee of 1200 km.


As far tech transfer concerns
French and German consultants had more
Contribution in indian Submarines development than Russians.

Here read why IAF is not interested in PAk fa

 
Last edited:

panzerfeist1

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Lol DRDO labs has its own abechoic chamber facilities
For UMB GAN AESA for AMCA and Uttam AESA both
Already in there advanced development phase

While Russians DSPSU relics doesn't even started 🙄 on GAN technology 🙄
Lol they don't even 🤣 have research paper on it.

India is forced to purchase substandard and untested S-100 series Air defenses old Due to geopolitical compulsions with vodka Brothers

Barak-8 or LR SAM supercedes any missiles in
S-400 for anti aircraft role with better Seeker technology.

PDV2 anti ballistic missile can target object flying at
25 mach at apogee of 1200 km.


As far tech transfer concerns
French and German consultants had more
Contribution in indian Submarines development than Russians.

Here read why IAF is not interested in PAk fa
The problem is how can the F-22 or F-35 or whatever India makes defeat the Su-70? I mean look at what its finished design would be

1615933737565.png


The B-2 is like .0001m2 and this looks like a B-2 meaning because of its smaller size will have a RCS smaller than .0001m2 its so stealth that even tha boyz at F-16.net are not shitposting about it.

4c89c11ae741be234a5f900b3fb41e86.pdf (niip.ru)


"The first platform for our latest radar will most likely be an advanced Russian-built unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV). We believe the radar designed for a heavy UAV will be able to scan airspace with the 200-km radius."

Russians usually give a 3-5m2 figure range so that will be at 200kms also the Su-70 qualifies as a heavy drone so.

俄罗斯苏57失败板上钉钉?仍有最后一丝希望反败为胜|俄罗斯|战斗机|雷达_新浪军事_新浪网 (sina.com.cn)

The Russians' official propaganda is generally like this: "The detection distance is very far, the energy conversion efficiency is up to 60%, the traditional radar is only 30%, and the noise is more than 100 times lower than the traditional radar, greatly improving the signal-to-noise ratio, for stealth target theory detection distance of more than 500 kilometers!

Russia to develop advanced radio-photonic radars for 6th-generation fighter jets - Military & Defense - TASS

"As the press office said, RTI Group is completing R&D work in 2018 on creating a mockup of the X-band radio-photonic radar. Following its results, specialists "will determine a principal scheme of building the radio-photonic locator," which will make it possible "in several years to build prototypes of super-light and small-size radars for unmanned aerial vehicles."

So lets say that Su-70 drone has this radar and we go with Chinas claim(I think KRETS several story size radar building claim, being as efficient as a photonic radar on a Kamaz truck news report might exceed what the Chinese are saying in terms of detection) with the more than 100 times lower noise claim that gives us a .03-.05m2 at 200kms(it could be less because Chinese say more than 100).


@48:30~

"[Billie Flynn] A: “So right we went from World War one the Red Bear and get the world war two like you're talking about p38 it's Spitfires it's against the great German pilot we get to Korea and fighter jets. we get to Vietnam same sort of thing we get to Top Gun thirty something years ago in that movie of dogfights.

That's not my world anymore.

I see the enemy 200 miles away."

The U.S. usually uses 1m2 for detection claims so 1m2 at 321 kms in regards to seeing a target 200 miles by an F-35 pilot. So the F-35 has to have detection and tracking capabilities that exceed the performance of the Su-70 so 321(.05 times 1) ^.25 the an/apg-81 can spot a .05m2 target at 151.79kms. In other words the Su-70 with a photonic radar(RTI will start placing them in drones in 2025) can see the same target but at a further range than the F-35 by 200kms minimum.

Фотонные радары, радиофотоника и стелс-технологии (naukatehnika.com)

"Unlike traditional radars, it will not be physically possible to silence ROFAR by traditional means of EW. The dynamic range of the photon crystal is about 200 DB. Modern electronic receiver, for comparison, has a range of 40 - 60 DB, and we modern EW complexes provide a signal to the entrance of the radio receiver - in 70-80 DB relative to its threshold sensitivity. Thus, the device that needs to receive the signal is displayed from a healthy state. Even after the interference in his inside there are still processes that do not allow him to work. But on Earth there is simply no energy source for a signal with a capacity greater than 200 DB, so this logic in the case of ROFAR simply does not work. It can be confused by so-called intellectual opposition, but this is a different story."

The Su-70 is stealthier than F-22 and F-35s, has better radar detection and immunity to EW while testing new air to air missiles the 2nd half this year. How can India compete?
 

FalconSlayers

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WHY DO YOU Think IAF rejected it after investing 300-400 million $

Su-57 is failed project of Old aviation giant which is struggling with contemporary realities.

Indian aviation sector came matured enough
To match Russians by end of this decade.
With AMCA and MWF it will outfit Russian aviation
Su-57: no internal weapons bay, no serpentine intake, no DSI intake (stealth taiyyara still).
 

SARTHAK

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The problem is how can the F-22 or F-35 or whatever India makes defeat the Su-70? I mean look at what its finished design would be

View attachment 81996

The B-2 is like .0001m2 and this looks like a B-2 meaning because of its smaller size will have a RCS smaller than .0001m2 its so stealth that even tha boyz at F-16.net are not shitposting about it.

4c89c11ae741be234a5f900b3fb41e86.pdf (niip.ru)


"The first platform for our latest radar will most likely be an advanced Russian-built unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV). We believe the radar designed for a heavy UAV will be able to scan airspace with the 200-km radius."

Russians usually give a 3-5m2 figure range so that will be at 200kms also the Su-70 qualifies as a heavy drone so.

俄罗斯苏57失败板上钉钉?仍有最后一丝希望反败为胜|俄罗斯|战斗机|雷达_新浪军事_新浪网 (sina.com.cn)

The Russians' official propaganda is generally like this: "The detection distance is very far, the energy conversion efficiency is up to 60%, the traditional radar is only 30%, and the noise is more than 100 times lower than the traditional radar, greatly improving the signal-to-noise ratio, for stealth target theory detection distance of more than 500 kilometers!

Russia to develop advanced radio-photonic radars for 6th-generation fighter jets - Military & Defense - TASS

"As the press office said, RTI Group is completing R&D work in 2018 on creating a mockup of the X-band radio-photonic radar. Following its results, specialists "will determine a principal scheme of building the radio-photonic locator," which will make it possible "in several years to build prototypes of super-light and small-size radars for unmanned aerial vehicles."

So lets say that Su-70 drone has this radar and we go with Chinas claim(I think KRETS several story size radar building claim, being as efficient as a photonic radar on a Kamaz truck news report might exceed what the Chinese are saying in terms of detection) with the more than 100 times lower noise claim that gives us a .03-.05m2 at 200kms(it could be less because Chinese say more than 100).


@48:30~

"[Billie Flynn] A: “So right we went from World War one the Red Bear and get the world war two like you're talking about p38 it's Spitfires it's against the great German pilot we get to Korea and fighter jets. we get to Vietnam same sort of thing we get to Top Gun thirty something years ago in that movie of dogfights.

That's not my world anymore.

I see the enemy 200 miles away."

The U.S. usually uses 1m2 for detection claims so 1m2 at 321 kms in regards to seeing a target 200 miles by an F-35 pilot. So the F-35 has to have detection and tracking capabilities that exceed the performance of the Su-70 so 321(.05 times 1) ^.25 the an/apg-81 can spot a .05m2 target at 151.79kms. In other words the Su-70 with a photonic radar(RTI will start placing them in drones in 2025) can see the same target but at a further range than the F-35 by 200kms minimum.

Фотонные радары, радиофотоника и стелс-технологии (naukatehnika.com)

"Unlike traditional radars, it will not be physically possible to silence ROFAR by traditional means of EW. The dynamic range of the photon crystal is about 200 DB. Modern electronic receiver, for comparison, has a range of 40 - 60 DB, and we modern EW complexes provide a signal to the entrance of the radio receiver - in 70-80 DB relative to its threshold sensitivity. Thus, the device that needs to receive the signal is displayed from a healthy state. Even after the interference in his inside there are still processes that do not allow him to work. But on Earth there is simply no energy source for a signal with a capacity greater than 200 DB, so this logic in the case of ROFAR simply does not work. It can be confused by so-called intellectual opposition, but this is a different story."

The Su-70 is stealthier than F-22 and F-35s, has better radar detection and immunity to EW while testing new air to air missiles the 2nd half this year. How can India compete?
bro.first of all s70 is a wingman and hal is also making a wingman with a2a capabilities ,boeing is also making one ,fighter jets and wingmans are two different things .rofar radar is still away from production lines,
 

panzerfeist1

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bro.first of all s70 is a wingman and hal is also making a wingman with a2a capabilities ,boeing is also making one ,fighter jets and wingmans are two different things
wingmen can still be used for A2A also the Su-70 has a set production date with more models. Источники рассказали, чем будет отличаться второй беспилотник "Охотник" - РИА Новости, 17.03.2021 (ria.ru)

Sources called the start date for testing the second Hunter drone."

MOSCOW, 17 Mar-RIA Novosti. Construction of the second prototype of the S-70 Okhotnik heavy strike drone, which has received an updated design, will be completed in late summer, at the same time the vehicle will be rolled out of the workshop and its ground tests will begin, two sources in the military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti.
"Completion of construction and roll-out of the second prototype of the Okhotnik unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) from the shop of the Chkalov Novosibirsk aviation plant (NAZ) are scheduled for the end of summer. Immediately after that, the stage of ground testing of the UAV will begin, including engine starts, checks of on-Board systems and units of the device, taxiing and Jogging along the runway, and much more, " one of the Agency's interlocutors said.
Another source stressed that the second UAV has significant design differences from the first sample. According to the source, "the first Okhotnik is more of an experimental technology demonstrator, while the second Is an experimental pre-production vehicle."
He confirmed the timing of ground tests of the new Okhotnik and clarified that "it is planned to lift the device into the air for the first time at the end of this or early next year."

The United aircraft Corporation (UAC) did not comment on the information provided by the sources to RIA Novosti.
As RIA Novosti reported in early February, NAZ is building three more prototypes of the Okhotnik heavy attack UAV, which are planned to be connected to flight tests in 2022-2023. Then, in particular, it was noted that changes will be made to the design of the second device based on the operating experience of the first "Hunter".
The s-70 Okhotnik was developed at the Sukhoi design Bureau (part of the rostec state Corporation UAC) and is designed according to the flying wing aerodynamic scheme. According to open sources, the length of the drone is 14 meters, the wingspan is 19 meters, and the take-off weight is 20 tons. "Okhotnik" has a subsonic maximum flight speed and is made using materials that reduce radar visibility.
The first flight of the first "Hunter", as reported in the Ministry of defense, took place on August 3, 2019. During the flight tests, according to RIA Novosti sources, the UAV has already used aviation weapons, including the drone bombed a ground target at the Ashuluk training ground.
Serial deliveries of "Hunters" to The aerospace forces of the Russian Federation, noted earlier in the UAC, should begin in 2024.

Odin in the sky is not a warrior
According to Denis Fedutinov, a leading expert in the field of unmanned aviation, the greatest effect of using the s-70 Okhotnik Can be achieved by organizing its interaction with other manned and unmanned aerial vehicles and forming reconnaissance and strike aviation groups based on them.
"This will require fairly large-scale applied research aimed at increasing the autonomy of the Hunter's actions, as well as organizing effective interaction of heterogeneous reconnaissance and strike assets while minimizing human involvement in this process, "the expert stressed.
He added that "one of the intrigues of the upcoming flight tests, in particular, is how the interaction of the two Hunters will be tested.
Fedutinov clarified that in addition to autonomy, development of communication channels and automation of interaction, the concept of using heavy UAVs and ways to integrate them into the grouping of forces and means is of key importance. According to the expert, serious efforts will be required by research organizations of the Russian defense Ministry to form the concept of embedding and using "Hunters" in the framework of reconnaissance and strike systems, including manned aircraft, UAVs and other forces and means.
He added that progress in these areas is likely to be associated with significant financial and, importantly, time costs that exceed the cost of creating the UAV itself.


rofar radar is still away from production lines,
I wouldn't be too sure about that.


Now all radar systems - military and civilian - operate in a strictly defined range of frequencies, which complicates technical design and leads to a variety of radar range. Photon radars will achieve the highest degree of unification. They are able to instantly adjust in a very wide range of working frequencies - from meter values to millimeters.

Радиолокационная станция "Яхрома" в Крыму будет работать в четырех диапазонах - Армия и ОПК - ТАСС (tass.ru)

TASS, January 4. The newest radar station "Yakhroma", the construction of which in Crimea was announced by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Sergei Shoigu at the annual board of the Ministry of Defense, will operate in four ranges with a view of 270 degrees. A source in the military-industrial complex told TASS about it.

"This station has no analogues, it will operate in four bands: meter, centimeter, decimeter and millimeter," the agency's interlocutor said, specifying that the station's view would be 270 degrees.

In December 2020, during the final collegium of the military department, Russian Defense Minister General of the Army Sergei Shoigu announced that the construction of the newest Yakhroma radar station in Sevastopol would begin in 2021.


Than of course we have RTI stating in september 2019 that a photonic radar will be equipped on a multifunctional fighter.
 

mattster

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Every country that fields a 5th gen stealth fighter is going to have to deal with super-high costs of keeping the aircraft flying. The Americans are the first ones to do it, and they are open about the issues and costs.

I am willing to bet that the Chinese Stealth fighter that looks like a boat with canards probably has flying cost per hour rate that is double that of F-35, but you'll never know what the real number is.

The PAK-FA is probably a disaster to maintain - thats probably why the IAF said no thanks.
 

BON PLAN

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Some fresh news of the flying brick :
Block 4 Software Issues Could Cause F-35 Capability Delays, Costly Retrofits

Following the latest review by the Government Accountability Office, DoD is expected to again push back the schedule for the sprawling F-35 modernization effort.
The new report is yet another slap for the Joint Strike Fighter, which is already in DoD’s budget-cutting cross-hairs due to the plane’s exorbitant maintenance costs.
...
GAO said that costs of the effort had ballooned by $1.9 billion between 2019 and 2020, bringing the overall cost to about $14.4 billion.
...
(The current 2027 deadline for Block 4 completion already represents a three-year delay from the 2024 deadline DoD set in its 2018 baseline for the effort.)
:pound::pound::pound:


 

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