F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

BON PLAN

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Don't worry the F-35 is not an immediate purchase, but it will come, there is plan to move Nukes from Turkey to Greece. Hence Greek F-16s and eventually F-35 will have a nuke role. It's a matter of time.
probably.
Greece will share its futur force between Rafale and F35.
A part of the F16 fleet will be deeply upgraded, so a F35 purchase is not for tomorrow. Maybe the time to fine tune the stealthy goose, ie nearly in 2032 :cool3:

And don't forget that Rafale is ASMPA ready. And ASMPA is a nuclear weapon of a NATO country.... 300 to 500 km range, 300kt warhead. Onother beast than B61.
 
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Immanuel

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probably.
Greece will share its futur force between Rafale and F35.
A part of the F16 fleet will be deeply upgraded, so a F35 purchase is not for tomorrow. Maybe the time to fine tune the stealthy goose, ie nearly in 2032 :cool3:

And don't forget that Rafale is ASMPA ready. And ASMPA is a nuclear weapon of a NATO country.... 300 to 500 km range, 300kt warhead. Onother beast than B61.
You're a dumb ass if you think once initial talks start the ball will slow down, US works a lot more efficient under Trump. The number of F-35 deals signed in the last 3 years proves itself.

US nukes in Belgium, Turkey soon Greece, Germany, UK etc are deterrent against Russia and they have their role to play. B-16-Mod 12 is seen as a tactical nuclear bomb with earth penetration abilities. It is meant to be used against hardened nuke bunkers and storage sites.

Also NATO nukes can't be deployed at will, US will need to approve such a strike. France can't unilaterally nuke within concept of NATO. French balls are in US hands here too.
 

BON PLAN

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France can't unilaterally nuke within concept of NATO. French balls are in US hands here too.
Another big fake news of our old but sick friend @Immanuel

I think you must confuse GB deterrence and France one;
GB deterrence is based on Trident US missile, their subs used US tech, their warheads are under a two key system. Infact GB is already another US state.
France deterrence uses 100% french made subs, 100% french made missiles, 100% french made figters, 100% french made warheads. There is only one key for it, in the pocket of the french President.

Sorry for you. Another miss. Not the last one for sure.
 

BON PLAN

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@Immanuel

The first comprehensive cost review of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program since 2012 has found a funding gap of $10 billion over the next five years.

Even more shocking, the total costs for the F-35 are estimated to reach $1.727 trillion over the lifetime of the program. Of this total, $1.266 trillion will be needed for operations and support.


SO SAD..... :pound::pound::pound:


so the real costs of the bird is not known, and even less mastered. Congrats LM !
 

BON PLAN

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Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Bronk said he thought the 138-aircraft target was an “aspiration unlikely to be funded,”

Reports in the British media last month suggested that the United Kingdom may only buy 70 F-35Bs, rather than the 138 aircraft originally planned.

50% cut !!!!!


another wonderfull news isn't it?
 

Immanuel

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Storm Clouds Gather Over F-35B Lightning As United Kingdom Prepares Defense Review

Bronk said he thought the 138-aircraft target was an “aspiration unlikely to be funded,”

Reports in the British media last month suggested that the United Kingdom may only buy 70 F-35Bs, rather than the 138 aircraft originally planned.

50% cut !!!!!


another wonderfull news isn't it?
Meanwhile, the UK Ministry of Defence has steadfastly held to the 138-aircraft figure in its communications.

This is the only quote that really matters. No one cares about experts, a few trips from LM officials and some US Govt. nudge and things will hold steady. Besides, the F-35 order backlog is years backlogged, they are able to slow deliveries or speed up.
 

Immanuel

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Another big fake news of our old but sick friend @Immanuel

I think you must confuse GB deterrence and France one;
GB deterrence is based on Trident US missile, their subs used US tech, their warheads are under a two key system. Infact GB is already another US state.
France deterrence uses 100% french made subs, 100% french made missiles, 100% french made figters, 100% french made warheads. There is only one key for it, in the pocket of the french President.

Sorry for you. Another miss. Not the last one for sure.

Strategic nuclear forces

The strategic forces of the Alliance, and particularly those of the United States, are the supreme guarantee of the security of the Allies.
The independent strategic nuclear forces of the United Kingdom and France have a deterrent role of their own and contribute significantly to the overall security of the Alliance. These Allies’ separate centres of decision-making contribute to deterrence by complicating the calculations of any potential adversaries. In other words, should an adversary decide to attack NATO, they must not only contend with NATO’s decision-making, but also make a judgment about decision-making from the leaders of the United States, United Kingdom, and France.

It's the US that guarantees Nuclear security over the rest of NATO and launch authority will require always US approval first.


It's ok cupe cake, you're going senile by the day.
 

BON PLAN

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Meanwhile, the UK Ministry of Defence has steadfastly held to the 138-aircraft figure in its communications.

This is the only quote that really matters. No one cares about experts, a few trips from LM officials and some US Govt. nudge and things will hold steady. Besides, the F-35 order backlog is years backlogged, they are able to slow deliveries or speed up.
:lol: :pound: :lol: :pound:
Never, never, never !
The 138 target was and is just usefull for job shares.
 

Immanuel

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@Immanuel

The first comprehensive cost review of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program since 2012 has found a funding gap of $10 billion over the next five years.

Even more shocking, the total costs for the F-35 are estimated to reach $1.727 trillion over the lifetime of the program. Of this total, $1.266 trillion will be needed for operations and support.


SO SAD..... :pound::pound::pound:


so the real costs of the bird is not known, and even less mastered. Congrats LM !
You're again confusing long term costs vs long term production. F-35 has enough orders to be in production for a long time. Govts. change, policies change but the Military Industrial Complex will always look out for itself. They have deep pockets, plenty of pull with both Democrats and Republicans and the Presidency. You're only looking at the cost, you forget that over it's lifetime it will have hundreds of exports. The current export order book for the F-35 is at 750+ airframes which is over $150 Billion in orders. Over the next decade, every F-16 operator is a potential F-35 operator. Over it's lifetime, you'll see 2000 + aircraft in exports. As said, F-35 is not just a 5th gen jet but a gravy train. A lots of jobs, companies, suppliers depend on it.

Wait UAE deal coming soon, perhaps Saudis next.
 

Immanuel

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:lol: :pound: :lol: :pound:
Never, never, never !
The 138 target was and is just usefull for job shares.
Little you say or do stops the F-35 from being sold. For years they have been talking about cuts, yet nothing happened. Committees get formed, papers get released, cost estimates get thrown around yet in real life all I see if F-35 winning most fighter competitions in this time. So suck on that fact.

Also it doesn't matter really if they only buy 70 vs 138. Since there are 700 more from other partners on order. As said, when one has hundreds upon hundreds of orders. Few deferrals, slow deliveries or eventual cancellation doesn't affect it much. Also nothing is confirmed yet so you really shouldn't get panties up in a bunch. Wait Swiss, Finland, Canada they are all in play.

Also you'll have a price issue.

As said, you worry more about Rafale that has only around 70 orders in backlog.


Also the F-35A now has a price advantage, Belgian deal 34 for 6.53 billion. Not to mention existing Teen operators in Swiss, Finland, Canada have US weapons stockpiles such as Aim-9x, Amraam and others thus it's cheaper for them to get the bird first without expensive weapons integration issues.

Rafale faces a big problem in all these contests. Rafale more likely to win in placed where existing French platforms operate.
 

BON PLAN

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Strategic nuclear forces

The strategic forces of the Alliance, and particularly those of the United States, are the supreme guarantee of the security of the Allies.
The independent strategic nuclear forces of the United Kingdom and France have a deterrent role of their own and contribute significantly to the overall security of the Alliance. These Allies’ separate centres of decision-making contribute to deterrence by complicating the calculations of any potential adversaries. In other words, should an adversary decide to attack NATO, they must not only contend with NATO’s decision-making, but also make a judgment about decision-making from the leaders of the United States, United Kingdom, and France.

It's the US that guarantees Nuclear security over the rest of NATO and launch authority will require always US approval first.


It's ok cupe cake, you're going senile by the day.

Strategic nuclear forces

The strategic forces of the Alliance, and particularly those of the United States, are the supreme guarantee of the security of the Allies.
The independent strategic nuclear forces of the United Kingdom and France have a deterrent role of their own and contribute significantly to the overall security of the Alliance. These Allies’ separate centres of decision-making contribute to deterrence by complicating the calculations of any potential adversaries. In other words, should an adversary decide to attack NATO, they must not only contend with NATO’s decision-making, but also make a judgment about decision-making from the leaders of the United States, United Kingdom, and France.

It's the US that guarantees Nuclear security over the rest of NATO and launch authority will require always US approval first.


It's ok cupe cake, you're going senile by the day.
The french nukes are under a one key decision center.
The french nukes are 100% french made.
USA has nothing to say to the french president. We are fully independant.

This is what is written in your document :
"The development and implementation of NATO’s nuclear policy are the responsibility of the Nuclear Planning Group (NPG). The NPG provides the forum for consultation on all issues that relate to NATO nuclear deterrence. All Allies, with the exception of France, which has decided not to participate, are members of the NPG. "

We are so independant that we didn't share our SLBM patrol zone to USA and GB. It caused a collision between a french and a GB subs some years ago.... Since then a minimum information is share between us to...

Now take your medicine and go to bed.
 

Immanuel

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The french nukes are under a one key decision center.
The french nukes are 100% french made.
USA has nothing to say to the french president. We are fully independant.

This is what is written in your document :
"The development and implementation of NATO’s nuclear policy are the responsibility of the Nuclear Planning Group (NPG). The NPG provides the forum for consultation on all issues that relate to NATO nuclear deterrence. All Allies, with the exception of France, which has decided not to participate, are members of the NPG. "

We are so independant that we didn't share our SLBM patrol zone to USA and GB. It caused a collision between a french and a GB subs some years ago.... Since then a minimum information is share between us to...

Now take your medicine and go to bed.
You make my point exactly, in the case of NATO, release of nuclear weapons is directly controlled by Washington along with the Brits. France has little pull in NPG exactly because they choose to stay out.
 

Immanuel

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You are pulling my leg.

Mark my words : F35 will never land in switzerland. Never.
This is not a plane made for this kind of job.
We'll see. So far there's a small chance for Rafale in Swiss. The odds for F-35 and Block-3 are much higher due to existing stocks of US weapons, logistics and relationships lasting decades.
 

BON PLAN

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We'll see. So far there's a small chance for Rafale in Swiss. The odds for F-35 and Block-3 are much higher due to existing stocks of US weapons, logistics and relationships lasting decades.
US weapons : old stock. Just enough to be used on the remaining life of actual F18.
Logistic : old spare parts inventory.
relationship : we are just on the other side of a frontier....

Rafale was technically the best in 2011. since Swiss top brass had all the time to see that the road map offered to the Swiss AF was perfecty on time and on spec. It can't be said of EF (they promised a AESA radar in 2015... big LOL) and it can't be saif of the stealthy goose F35 which is only IOC and always late.
The game will be between SH18 and Rafale. And SH18 was not brillant during the field tests (a breakdown, and low agility in the mountains).
 

Immanuel

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US weapons : old stock. Just enough to be used on the remaining life of actual F18.
Logistic : old spare parts inventory.
relationship : we are just on the other side of a frontier....

Rafale was technically the best in 2011. since Swiss top brass had all the time to see that the road map offered to the Swiss AF was perfecty on time and on spec. It can't be said of EF (they promised a AESA radar in 2015... big LOL) and it can't be saif of the stealthy goose F35 which is only IOC and always late.
The game will be between SH18 and Rafale. And SH18 was not brillant during the field tests (a breakdown, and low agility in the mountains).
Rafale didn't get far in 2011 and the F-35 in competition changes things.



Also let's see if the Swiss vote to buy now or later.

Swiss AF order plenty of Aim-120C-7s which were delivered over the years among, they'll last well into the mid next decade and Hornets are being upgraded. Also the costs vs a new type like Rafale will be evidently high. In COVID era all this matters. I see a very low chance of Rafale deal in Swiss.

You have no sources for your BS claims about the latest Swiss Trials.
 

BON PLAN

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You have no sources for your BS claims about the latest Swiss Trials.
The SH18 breakdown was official.
F35 : no dual seat. The effect of the need to be 4 was bad.

There are talks beween pilots.... And some french forumers are friends of french pilots.... and they spoke....
 

Manticore

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Source on the f-18 breakdown. Not arguing on this point, just curious.

Also, do not use rumors of pilots as official sources. If that is the case then,

There are talks beween pilots.... And some american, swedish, UK and Germany forumers are friends of american, swedish, UK and Germany pilots.... and they spoke....
 

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