F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[ersakthivel]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

First of all I never claimed any seniority over you. All I am saying is that I am not stupid.

1. How do you know that LCA will always accompanied by AWACS?? we will have 15 AWACS in 2022 and they will be shared among 6 LCA squadrons, 7 Rafale Squadrons, 3 Mig 29 sqdrns and 2 Mirage sqdrns. So, either prove that IAF has specific doctrine of sending LCA with AWACS only or get lost.

First of all clarify your statement "that IAF has not ordered extra 20 mk-I". whether you posted without knowing the facts or knowing the facts?
Do you know the meaning of the word "EW" crafts. Have you read anything about the first PV of LCA being converted to EW craft.

ANd what is the meaning of that? where will the AWACS be in times of war. AWACS are not my grandfather's property to be divided among me and my brothers.

They are there to safeguard the airspace of the country ,not to be divided among SUKHOIs and RAFALEs and LCAs. Controling strategic airspace where all fighters do their job.

Even if awacs is not available dedicated ew crafts like the modified PV-1 will take over. Have you ever heard of the term "MINI AWACS" used liberally with SUKHOI? A dedicated EW craft will be 5 times capable than "SUKHOI" in ew warfare

. Ever heard of the term FA_18/GROWLER?. It is not the dog of USAF chief. It is a dedicated ew craft.Go google your self, and give your findings to the forum.

2. Look man I don't want to correct you about the strike fighter issue. Every knows MKI is a fighter bomber. You saying otherwise won't change that. If you start calling an elephant a lion, it doesn't become a lion.

You don't know what is the difference between a lion and elephant. You are saying MKI is a fighter bomber .World over fighter bombers are called strike fighters in the old days.Rafale too has a strike roll. But euro fighter is more air to air than air to ground .It's basic purpose is interceptor. It wont carry as much as rafale in those rolls.

But it has more higher service cielling and much tighter turn radius and carries a much bigger radar. SO it's roll tilts towards air to air fighter. Ofcourse nowadays it is more multi role, all planes do all things. But when you mate sukhoi with BRAHMOS and let it hunt the ocean for naval assets it's role is strike. But It has superior air to air abilities. when it performs those tasks it does air to air role.

Now put yourself in IAF chief's seat .there is a war. There is a need to strike a target that is 1000km away deep inside the enemy territory. Which aircraft will you call? The ones mated with BRAHMOS or what? Then what is the name of the mission? STRIKE.That's what I meant.

3. For RCS of Gripen, http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-1029-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-30.html

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...-start-30.html----This link you posted is not authentic website. It is a place where people like you,P2PRADA,TWINBLADE and me keep posting forever .No one needs to speak the truth here.First try to know the difference between forum and a website of some authenticity.

Then you may ask "are all the things posted here are false?" NO.
What is false is the stuff that are posted without a back up of an authentic link.
I have given authentic link for every statement I made.I have given most outside links through out these thread
And I have debated only about the things here.Not my own gas.
By the way it says grippen has 1/2 of mirage -2000-5's RCS. Do you stand by that?
ALso how can you arrive that rafale has a tenth of mirage's cross section?
How does that prove LCA 's RCS whish is climed to be a third of MIRAGE?

Gripen's instaneous turn rate: significantly better than F-16C, F/A-18C/D, and M2000-5.
Gripenss sustaneous turn rate: worse than F-16C, F/A-18C/D, but better than M2000-5.
Do you stand by this?

Does that also prove LCA has a lesser RCS than GRIPPEN?
If you say that people will set your back on fire in this forum. Please save your soul.

By the way, Do you have proof that LCA's RCS will be as low as you claim it to be.

No one in the world has any proof for any RCS of any fighter. These will be known only through exact testing.But looking at the craft and the claims by the makers and comparing them with other known fighters people can come to a relative conclusion. That's all.

Looking at the Y duct intake that shields the engine blades and ADA's statements we quote our figures. But keep in mind world over people use the same method for this purpose. Subjecting the fighters to radar waves from different angles and using RAMs and coatings.

SO when some one claims "that bigger twin engined or single engined ,canard added,twice the size of LCA ,more metal components fighters all of them which were designed at least 10 years before LCA have a third of LCA 's RCS, then naturally people will ask. How come?"

4. About the Mirage upgrade. Ok then please tell me what was the other option that airforce had other than upgrading its mirages regardless of the cost.

But IAF seems to have all other options when it comes to LCA.Why did they demand that ADA cant do it?
Why should their chief write letters to PM saying this,which ended up 2 TDs first. All tech must be proved. Then only PVs and LSPs.

IAF refused set aside a single ruppee from it's budget. It wanted the fighter to be just a MIG replacement. It steadfastedly argued ADA cant develop FCS.

why didn't every one supported ADA from 1983 to 1993. During this period just 500 crore were released all went to establish infrastructure and project definition.

funds came for TDs only on 1993.That too after ABDUL KALAM's intervention only.Td1 flew in 2001.so it was actually built in 7 years.

If further PVs and LSPs were built side by side the program would have been much quicker. Only after the collapse of USSR in 1993 people who mattered showed any urgency in this matter and released funds,brushing aside IAF's concerns.pvs rolled out only in 2004 onwards. SO it is the IAF's choice.

5. How do you that IAF's consent is not required for inducting LCA?? Proof?? Oh wait, you never come with proof, you only come with fantasies. MKIII will only be inducted if IAF needs it, not because DRDO wants to have something to show for 29 years of work.

Who asked army's consent before building nuclear bombs?
who asked NAVY's nuclear sub before getting NAVY's consent?
who asked airforce's ASR before building air to air version of BRAHMOS?
who asked the army's GSQR before building nuclear bombs?
Did SUKHOI makers received IAF ASR before building it?
Did RAFALE makers received IAF ASR before building it?
Did T-90makers received army's GSQR before building it?
Was T-72 builders received army's GSQR before building it?
Did MIG makers received IAF ASR before building it?
The scientific establishment builds weapons according to the technology available.
Once a weapon systems shows comparable performance to other systems ,No one has the right to refuse it.
Country's that keep buying everything from foriegn countries are called CLIENT STATES.
Today US calls us geopolitical ally because we have built N bomb ,built the missiles, built the NSUB,
They wont use that word if we keep importing every thing.

By the way 1700 F-35s are ordered throughout the globe. You may find some answers,perhaps. which has lower combat specs than LCA due to power requirement for cooling and aerdynamic compromises for stealth,
Go and ask these people, why are you ordering smaller radar single engine craft?
Ask them why are you not building twin engined big radar stealth in place of this single engined smaller radar stealth?

 

[p2prada]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

F35 is multirole, not a striker.....

F-35 is more ground attack and less air to air, even though it is called multirole.

F-35 is fine though. If you look at many air forces around the world, they are content with the F-16 without any F-15 orders to complement it. So, there are only a few air forces which can afford a heavy fighter.

 

[rahulrds1]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

F-35 stealth fighter has reduced % of Titanium and comparatively Large % of Composites.

 

[rahulrds1]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

F-35 stealth fighter has Less % of Titanium and comparatively Large % of Composites.

 

[p2prada]

Re: ADA Tejas (LCA) - III

F-35 stealth fighter has Less % of Titanium and comparatively Large % of Composites.

That's because they wanted to make a cheaper fighter. Like I said already, composites are a cheaper substitute to Titanium.

A mostly Titanium build is impossible to afford.

 

[Defcon 1]

Can anyone please tell why exactly we need a F35B version(STOVL) when the carrier version is already being developed? What purpose will it serve?

 

[p2prada]

Can anyone please tell why exactly we need a F35B version(STOVL) when the carrier version is already being developed? What purpose will it serve?

Now that CATOBAR is written in stone for Vishal, the choice will automatically switch to a CATOBAR capable F-35C.

 

[Defcon 1]

Now that CATOBAR is written in stone for Vishal, the choice will automatically switch to a CATOBAR capable F-35C.

No I mean why is LM developing F35B at all? What purpose will it serve even in USN??

Also, can we have a source on F35 for vishal news?

 

[average american]

Same reasons they built the Harrier, F35B the Stealth Fighter Made by Lockheedmartin Co. - Video it can be kept close to the front lines and on small ships.....

 

[Defcon 1]

Same reasons they built the Harrier, F35B the Stealth Fighter Made by Lockheedmartin Co. - Video it can be kept close to the front lines and on small ships.....

Does US operates fighter planes from any ships other than carriers?

 

[Apollyon]

Does US operates fighter planes from any ships other than carriers?

Wasp Class and in future from America Class LHA

 

[average american]

Role of the Harrier in the Marines | eHow.com

http://defensetech.org/2011/11/14/the-marines-new-harriers-and-the-f-35b/

The F35B could be cut, its seen as a replacement for the harriers. The problem is not really as much a matter of technology or even money, the main problem there is no threat out there and not really like to be for the next 20 years.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

 

[p2prada]

No I mean why is LM developing F35B at all? What purpose will it serve even in USN??

Also, can we have a source on F35 for vishal news?

The USMC has the need for STOVL aircraft to replace Harriers.

The Wasp class and America class carry between 6 Harriers to 20 Harriers depending on the need. F-35B in the future.

USN won't use it.

 

[rahulrds1]

'F-35 And Strategy' --SLD [Second Lind of Defense]

http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/UK-F-35-and-Strategy.pdf

 

[average american]

Since the 1950s, engineers worldwide have been trying to create the ideal airplane that possesses the ability to perform short takeoffs and vertical landings while maintain speed and missile capabilities.

The first generation of these aircraft only achieved advanced speed over previous airplanes, while the second reached supersonic speed and the ability to carry missiles.

The third generation, to include the BAE Harrier, was the first successful attempt at creating an airplane capable of short take offs and vertical landings, but such capabilities came with a cost. The airplane was unable to carry as many weapons or as much fuel as other aircraft and certainly couldn't travel as fast. Fourth generation aircraft brought significant improvements to range, sensors, accuracy and stealth, among other things. Even with these advancements in the world of STOVL aircraft and stealth, there was more that could be accomplished.

For more than a decade, engineers with Lockheed Martin have drawn upon the lessons learned over these five generations of technology to create the F-35B Lightning II, a single-seat aircraft with stealth capability, equipped with an enhanced computer technology system and capable of performing STOVL functions while maintaining the conventional operations of other airplanes. The F-35B is slated to replace the AV-8B Harrier, F/A 18A Hornet and the EA-6B Prowler for the Marine Corps.

Col. Arthur Tomassetti, vice commander of the 33rd Fighter Wing, Air Education and Training Command at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., and a seasoned pilot with more than 3,200 flight hours in 35 different aircraft, has been with the Joint Strike Fighter program since its inception. His knowledge and experience have helped shape the F-35B into the ideal STOVL aircraft for the Marine Corps.

"Whatever you want to believe about the F-35 today, we finally built the STOVL airplane we've been trying to build for 60 years," Tomassetti said.

Since he was a young boy, Tomassetti had dreams of becoming an astronaut. By high school, he learned that to achieve this goal he needed to become a military test pilot. After accepting a commission in the Marine Corps in 1986, Tomassetti applied to test pilot school seven times before finally getting accepted in 1997.

Tomassetti's acceptance to test pilot school came at just the right time because he was offered the position of working with Boeing and Lockheed Martin in the JSF program. Tomassetti jumped at the opportunity to develop something brand new for the Corps.

"When somebody becomes a test pilot, I would think in the back of their mind they're thinking, 'I want to be the first to do something; I want to fly something new and do something new,'" Tomassetti said. "New things don't happen as often today as they did in the 1950s and 1960s. They're very few and far between. But there I was at the threshold of something called the X-32 and this thing called the X-35. It was a very neat place to be."

Boeing and Lockheed Martin were both commissioned to develop a STOVL aircraft, with the top prototype winning a contract with the U.S. Marine Corps, Air Force and Navy. Boeing's prototype aircraft was called the X-32 and Lockheed's was named the X-35.

Tomassetti's experience as a Harrier pilot and a combat veteran gave him insight into just what needed to be changed to make the new prototypes better. The engineers took the knowledge of Tomassetti and the other pilots and created their end-product aircraft.

For months, the pilots watched as the aircraft came alive on the factory floor below them. On July 20, 2001, Tomassetti was chosen to fly the Lockheed Martin X-35 for Mission X. The mission consisted of a never-been-done-before routine consisting of a short takeoff of a couple hundred feet, a supersonic dash at that altitude, a turn and finishing with a vertical landing.

"It was only a 50-minute flight," Tomassetti said. "But there was almost a lifetime of experience in those 50 minutes."

Tomassetti successfully completed the mission and a few months later, Lockheed Martin was awarded the contract.

The following year, Tomassetti began working at the Lockheed Martin factory at Fort Worth, Texas, for the creation of the F-35 for the Marine Corps.

"It was sort of right back to where I was four years before," Tomassetti said. "But now, it was real. It wasn't just for an airplane that would fly for a couple months to prove a concept. Now we had to build it right from the get-go. This would be the airplane people would take into combat. This was the flight manual they were going to use to learn to fly the airplane. This would be the simulator they would use to train in. All that stuff started to take on a whole new meaning because this was the way it was going to be forever."

Luckily, Tomassetti had become an expert in the last several years through his work with the X-35 program.

"Being on the ground floor of the X-35 and having all I learned from the X-35 to pull on as a resource of knowledge was a great thing for me personally and for the program overall," Tomassetti said. "We got to carry all those lessons we learned forward. The things that worked really well, we kept them. The things that we needed to improve, we now had time to get them fixed."

Over the next two years, Tomassetti worked with the engineers to create the ideal STOVL aircraft, equipped with cutting-edge technology.

The growth of computer technology became an integral part of the F-35. It features helmet-mounted and dash displays with centralized vehicle monitoring and multispectral sensors. Target locations are shown on the screens, as are the locations of other supporting aircraft. The computer generates exact coordinates of targets so the pilot can choose the proper weapon to engage.

"All of that is there in front of you on the screen," Tomassetti said. "You don't have to do any math or any calculations. It's all there for you."

The information isn't just for the pilot's use; it can be transferred to supporting aircraft as well.

"The strength of the F-35 isn't the one airplane and what it can do," Tomassetti said. "The strength of the F-35 is the group of airplanes and what they can do together."

The potential for cooperation among U.S. armed forces as well as coalition forces all using the F-35 variants is significant. In fact, the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Air Force are working on their own F-35 variants and eight other countries have agreed to join the program.

"In today's environment, it's usually not just the Marine Corps by itself," Tomassetti said. "We're operating with the Navy, Air Force and coalition partners. What happens when we're all in F-35s? Now we can all share that information. In terms of coalition warfare, this airplane further increases everyone's situational awareness to a greater extent than anything we have out there today."

The F-35's value is not only in the flying network it creates in the battle space. The F-35 is able to perform the missions of multiple current Marine Corps aircraft, all in one aircraft.

"This is where we talk about a fifth generation airplane versus a fourth generation airplane," Tomassetti said. "Most of what people want to lock into with fifth generation is stealth, low observable, and the cool pieces of it. That's great and you want as much of that as you can get. But the other piece of fifth generation is that data link and that networking capability. We used to have F/A 18s go in as the fighter cover and F/A 18s and Harriers go in as the ones that were dropping the bombs and EA-6Bs as support from an electronic attack. All those airplanes were needed to go after one target that was heavily defended. Now, we have four F-35s. They can do the fighter mission; they can do the bombing mission; they can do the electronic attack mission. They can go after that same target with a lot less airplanes."

From his earliest days working with the X-35, Tomassetti was committed to making the new aircraft easier to handle.

"Anytime you have to spend a lot of time practicing for something, that means it's hard," Tomassetti said. "And things shouldn't be hard. We should always be striving to make things easy. When you're flying airplanes in combat, there's enough hard things going on that you don't want simple things like navigating from point A to point B, and your take off and landing to be the hardest things you do all day. You've got other stuff when you're in the battle space that should be the hardest things you do each day."

In keeping with this desire, the F-35B is equipped with only two joystick controls, instead of the three that the Harrier has. Also, the simulator designed to teach the pilot to fly is so similar to the airplane that the pilot can fly with confidence after mastering the simulator.

"If you ask anybody who has flown the airplane or anyone who's flown the simulator – regardless of their aviation background – they all say, wow that's easy; I thought it would be harder," Tomassetti said.

The features of the F-35B aren't just for today's battle space. Unlike the legacy aircraft of the past, these aircraft are built to adapt to the ever-changing combat environments of future generations.

"The F-35 was built with the idea in mind that it would last 40-50 years," Tomassetti said. "Great thought was put into how the world and technology would change. We built the airplane so it could incorporate some of those changes. It's a software intensive airplane and software is easy to upgrade, as opposed to hardware. Also, things were built in modular format in the aircraft. If something doesn't work, you take out the module, send it back to the factory, and put a new module in."

In a world where technology is changing at a rapid rate, the F-35B will be able to adapt to support Marines, sailors, airmen and our international partners wherever and whenever they are needed.

Currently, the F-35B is undergoing constant testing of its competencies as well as testing of its operational capabilities by Marines. In the future, the Marine Corps plans to move F-35Bs to Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Ariz., and begin transitioning squadrons Corps-wide.

"We've done this before," Tomassetti said. "We've transitioned from an airplane to a newer airplane in the past. This time, though, we're transitioning a lot of our legacy aircraft at the same time. We don't normally do that. But it's doable."

As more U.S. and international partner pilots and maintainers become acquainted with the F-35 variants and its capabilities, a world of possibilities for future engagements opens up. The F-35 may be the key to unlocking true cooperation of forces between U.S. coalition forces, creating a united front against any world threat.


Read more: F-35 Opens the Door to True Cooperation of Forces | Aviation & Air Force News at DefenceTalk

 

[average american]

he Integrated Training Center (ITC) here completed its 500th combined sortie for both the F-35A conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) and F-35B short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft Friday.

Flight operations for the F-35 began on the Emerald Coast March 6. There are currently 22 F-35s at Eglin as the fleet continues to grow supporting the team as it trains instructor pilots and maintainers. The team accomplished the 500 sorties in 238 days cutting the time between each milestone sortie:
100th sortie – July 12 – accomplished in 123 days
200th sortie – Aug. 24 – accomplished in 44 days
300th sortie – Sept. 21 – accomplished in 28 days
400th sortie – Oct. 16 – accomplished in 25 days
500th sortie – Nov. 2 – accomplished in 16 days

Headquartered in Bethesda, Md., Lockheed Martin is a global security and aerospace company that employs about 120,000 people worldwide and is principally engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture, integration and sustainment of advanced technology systems, products and services. The corporation's net sales for 2011 were $46.5 billion. (Thats more then Indias entire defense budget)


Read more: Eglin Completes 500TH F-35 Sortie | Aviation & Air Force News at DefenceTalk

 

[asianobserve]

US Air Force praises early performance of Lockheed Martin F-35
By: DAVE MAJUMDAR WASHINGTON DC
6 Nov 2012 Source: Flightglobal


Initial feedback from US Air Force pilots and maintainers operating the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter at Eglin AFB, Florida, suggests the aircraft is performing better than its predecessors did at a similar stage of development.

The F-35 is in its infancy, but the stealthy type is already proving to be relatively stable from a maintenance standpoint, says Col Andrew Toth, commander of the 33rd Fighter Wing.

"The system right now is behaving as advertised, [although] occasionally, we will have some issues with it on the ground," he says. However, this is usually easily fixed by shutting the aircraft down and then restarting it,

Once the JSF is airborne there are "very limited" issues, with the aircraft's hardware, software and Pratt & Whitney F135 engine all performing well, he says.

"That's all good news," Toth says, but cautions: "We're a very young system and we still have very long way to go."

Sgt Skyler DeBoer, a senior maintainer with the 33rd Fighter Wing, who has previous experience on the Lockheed F-22 Raptor and F-117 Nighthawk programmes, says the F-35 has the edge on the Raptor. "Compared with the [F-22], this programme is way ahead of where the [F-22] was, software-wise, aircraft-wise," DeBoer says, "Lockheed has made great strides with this aircraft."

DeBoer attributes part of the improvement to better maintenance training. F-35 maintainers have received far more extensive instruction at this early stage of the JSF programme than on the F-22, he says.

Contractor support, too, is far better on the F-35 than was the case on the F-22, he insists. Requests to address specific problems are processed far more quickly through the F-35's autonomic logistics information system, with responses often received within hours, he says.

Additionally, the F-35's stealth coatings are much easier to work with than those used on the Raptor. Cure times for coating repairs are lower and many of the fasteners and access panels are not coated, further reducing the workload for maintenance crews.

According to Lockheed, some of the F-35's radar-absorbent materials are baked into the jet's composite skin, which means the JSF's stealthy signature is not easily degraded.


US Air Force praises early performance of Lockheed Martin F-35

 

[LurkerBaba]

An F-35A Lightning II conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) aircraft rapidly expanded its high angle of attack (AOA) test envelope to its 50 degree limit in only four flights during recent flight testing here. F-35A test aircraft are limited to AOAs of 20 degrees until their controllability is proven at a higher AOA limit of 50 degrees. The ability to rapidly progress to the maximum AOA indicates a sound aerodynamic and flight control system design. High AOA testing will continue on the F-35A for several months testing the capabilities of all design loadings and the flight control system.

Lockheed Martin � F-35A Achieves Maximum High Angle Of Attack Limit In Four Flights

 

[p2prada]

Good. Now they need to achieve that with the F-35C.

 

[Armand2REP]

I don't think it is any surprise with such a powerful engine. But the real concern is how it handles maneuvers in AoA. The poor airframe design is not going to enable it to fly well in this regime . All you can expect is a quick look to shoot.