F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

Zebra

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I read on some forum that Life of MKI airframe is only 3000 hours. Can't we get any reliable information on this?
Airframe service life of Su-35 is 6000 hrs. as per the Sukhoi web, not sure about MKI though.

Su-35:
.....What is new in the Su-35? First off, the fighter will get an improved airframe, which will dramatically increase its service life to 6,000 hours, 30 years of operation (the time before the first test and recondition and the between-repairs period has been increased to 1,500 hours, or 10 years of operation)......

full article: Sukhoi Company (JSC) - Airplanes - Military Aircraft - Su-35
 

average american

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Airframe service life of Su-35 is 6000 hrs. as per the Sukhoi web, not sure about MKI though.

Su-35:
.....What is new in the Su-35? First off, the fighter will get an improved airframe, which will dramatically increase its service life to 6,000 hours, 30 years of operation (the time before the first test and recondition and the between-repairs period has been increased to 1,500 hours, or 10 years of operation)......

full article: Sukhoi Company (JSC) - Airplanes - Military Aircraft - Su-35
Best I can tell if you want the honest truth the SU35 is a pimped up SU27 with lot of bells and whistle mostly for export because customers like India are get ansy about the delay in the T50 and PAK=FA which now looks like the early to mid 2020s. India buying the Rafaels is a good example. I have heard Russia is now going to buy some of them mainly because their airforce made such a poor showing in their war with Georgia.
 

Zebra

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Old sayiing you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear and if you consider everything it looks real ugly for the T50 and PAK-FA if they even get built, much less if they ever go up againt the F22 and F35, or even the upgraded teen fighters.
What is real ugly in this aircraft? :confused:



 

average american

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One of the problems the people of India has is they dont really know what they are getting,,, if corruptions was in the Olympics its one time the Indians certainly would win a medal,, China would win the gold, Russians the silver and India would certainly take the bronze. When you have two corrupt entities dealing with each others its like a lieing contest. When it comes down to military aircraft there are a million ways corruption can come into play....something as simple as nonseamless copper tubeing being substituted for seamless copper tubeing and causeing fuel line failure. Corruption in India: 'All your life you pay for things that should be free' | World news | The Guardian
 

Zebra

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I did not mean the plane was ugly, the Russians make them really pretty so people will buy them, what is ugly is what happens to them if they ever get in combat.
What can I say about the performance of PAK-FA, the project is still at prototypes and testing level.

But I can say that US keep sending their aircrafts from Japanese base and fly them very near to Russian border in past. But the day Russia stationed and start flying their all new MiG-31 there, US aircrafts never came back.

You can find it on one of these videos.....MiG-25 & MiG-31 (part 1,2 ,3, 4)....

MiG-25 & MiG-31 part 4 - YouTube
 

average american

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What can I say about the performance of PAK-FA, the project is still at prototypes and testing level.

But I can say that US keep sending their aircrafts from Japanese base and fly them very near to Russian border in past. But the day Russia stationed and start flying their all new MiG-31 there, US aircrafts never came back.

You can find it on one of these videos.....MiG-25 & MiG-31 (part 1,2 ,3, 4)....

MiG-25 & MiG-31 part 4 - YouTube
The USA and Russia have been doing that since World War II,, Military Defense Spending and Budgets
USA - $515,400,000,000

Russia - $43,200,000,000

Aerial-Based Weapons
USA - 18,169

Russia - 3,888

Then there is the lack of quality and support for Russian Airforce, not to mention 12 air craft carriers.
 

Zebra

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The USA and Russia have been doing that since World War II,, Military Defense Spending and Budgets
USA - $515,400,000,000

Russia - $43,200,000,000


Aerial-Based Weapons
USA - 18,169

Russia - 3,888

Then there is the lack of quality and support for Russian Airforce, not to mention 12 air craft carriers.
Dude, I hate Russia. bcz, Russia is not like USSR was.

BTW, which year you are talking about ? I mean, the comparison of defense spending.

I think Russia have to start from first step and it is all new game for them.
 

average american

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I spent some time in the old USSR I liked the Russians, to be honest I think they liked Americans more then they did the Russian goverment. but other then nuclear the Russians dont have a serious military now days at least compared to the US. I think a lot of what Wiki has listed has been grounded. Starting from the first step with where military technology would be a long row to hoe.
 
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average american

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I spent some time in the old USSR I liked the Russians, to be honest I think they liked Americans more then they did the Russian goverment. but other then nuclear the Russians dont have a serious military now days at least compared to the US. I think a lot of what Wiki has listed has been grounded. Starting from the first step with where military technology would be a long row to hoe.
In Russia they knew there was censorship and they knew there were things they could not say or it would get them in a lot of trouble. They did not like that as I am sure the Chinese dont like it. Most people just figure if information is being censored they are being lied to so it is a natural reaction not to believe any thing that comes from the goverment. Censorship is still a problem in Russia, if theres a problem with the SU 30, 35, T50 you are not likely to hear about it where in the USA all the dirty laundry is going to hanged out to drie.
 
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p2prada

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The Russian military is in the sh!ts. It is terrible with little or no new inductions in the last 20 years. Only their missile forces and nukes are better than before.

It is going to take them 10 to 20 years just to get to Europe's level.

Their mil industrial complex works differently though. They are wholly dependent on exports. The Russian military is only now warming up to new equipment.
 

average american

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The Russian military is in the sh!ts. It is terrible with little or no new inductions in the last 20 years. Only their missile forces and nukes are better than before.

It is going to take them 10 to 20 years just to get to Europe's level.

Their mil industrial complex works differently though. They are wholly dependent on exports. The Russian military is only now warming up to new equipment.
Not so good at Missiles either,, submarines and torpedos are crap too.

Back in March, Russia's missile designers promised to roll out a brand spanking new ICBM by 2013. Boss-for-life Vladimir Putin also pledged to invest $2.6 billion into ballistic missile production.
But Russia hasn't had a lot of luck lately getting new missiles off the ground. It flubbed 7 out of 16 tests for its submarine-launched Bulava missiles, at one point giving residents in Norway a frightening and unexpected fireworks show as a Bulava careened overhead. Written by Adam Rawnsley

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/Russian-Tech-Stumbles-Again-9-1-2012.asp
 

p2prada

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You will be surprised how highly the US thinks of Russian sub surface technology.

Anyway Bulava is a successful missile. There were a continuous string of successes since 2010. It had initial hiccups, but it is a whole new generation of ICBMs. Like the F-22 of the missile world. It supposedly comes with a maneuverable warhead.

The US is yet to build one as an answer.
 

p2prada

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The article you posted is simply rhetoric without any proof. You can say it is made for domestic consumption.

It is Russia which gives America sleepless nights. Do you really think the European Missile defence program is planned against Iran?

Anyway missiles won't go out of fashion anytime soon. It is still the best delivery system and there is no ABM system that can stop ICBMs as of today.

F-22, F-35 and X-47 don't have 8000-12000Km ranges which they can travel in 20 minutes.
 

Sridhar

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Survival
In relation to aircraft observability to radar and vulnerability to associated firing solutions, there still seems to be a lot of confusion out there of what defines a stealth aircraft and what defines a "balanced" survivability aircraft design.

True stealth aircraft designs take a great deal of care to make sure that the areas of interest (such as a nose-on aspect) have good shaping.

Balanced survivability fighter aircraft designs like the Typhoon, the Rafale and Super-Hornet try to use shape and radar absorbing material and skin where possible along with trying to hide the leading edge of jet engine components, to degrade the effects of the kinds of radars that are most likely to kill you, such as air-intercept-radar, radar in missile seekers and high-frequency surface-to-air missile radar ground guidance stations. The results have been reported as tactically useful, but they are not stealth aircraft.

Where are stealth aircraft and balanced survivability aircraft designs on this chart?



The "balanced" part comes in where in a terminal defensive situation, the use of on-board defensive jamming aids--combined with the enhancements mentioned above--help to further reduce the effects of enemy radar emitters. A towed decoy fused to the defensive system (for example, the ALE-50/55 on the Super Hornet) helps survivability in terminal enemy missile events even more.

While on-board defensive jamming may make your general location locatable, it makes it harder for the enemy to use a radar-homing missile against such aircraft in a defensive situation.

The survivability design of the F-35 is flawed. Badly. The F-35 has good nose-on shaping; just not so good anywhere else.

Welcome to "affordable", "export-friendly" stealth. That was the hope anyway. Or the hopes of what may be the greatest defense industry Ponzi scheme.

Ever.

The F-35 is neither balanced survivability nor a true stealth aircraft. The F-35 has no credible defensive jamming. Those selling the idea that the F-35's AESA radar as a defensive device against enemy terminal radar concerns aren't believable. Power output limits, thermal concerns along with the limited field of view and in-band frequency limits make the idea of the F-35 radar as a defensive solution of little value. It is only useful on a marketing PowerPoint slide to the clueless. And, unlike the designers of the F-22, the F-35 will not be in possession of true stealth, high-speed and high altitude to help degrade enemy no-escape-zone firing solutions of weapons. The thrust-vectoring on the F-22 is also an aid for quickly changing direction at Mach and not just sub-sonic speed.

The balanced survivability people have a workable solution, combined with, "man's got to know his limitations", (Dirty Harry; Magnum Force).

The F-22 designers also have a workable defensive solution: extreme performance regardless if the aircraft is or is not, naked due to degraded low observability event.

The F-35 design is not useful for future air combat survival. And, certainly, not at any price. Further, the numerous faults in the design--since it will be unable to face emerging threats and is too expensive to own and operate for anything else--point toward "balanced" survivability aircraft like the Typhoon, Rafale and Super Hornet, as providing more overall value to an air arm.

By 2020 (if there are no more delays), a seriously flawed F-35 may be ready to fight an air war 21 years earlier: ALLIED FORCE 1999.

Failure of the F-35 program--for a nation over $16T in the red--should be easy to define.

Eric Palmer blog: Survival
 

average american

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Right on the US does not know how to build fighters air craft, why would anyone looking at the kill record of the last 50 years come to that conclusion.


Kill Ratios
Irans F-14s ___ 123:13
USN F-14As ____ 4:0

IAF F-15s _____ 63:0
SAAF F-15s ____ 4:0 All against Iranian aircraft -2 F-4E & 2 F.1EQ
USAFs F-15s ___ 36:0

EPA F-16s _____ 2:3 (Greek AF victories over Turkish AF)
IAFs F-16s ____ 52:0 (NOTE#1)
NAF F-16A _____ 1:0 (NOTE#2)
PakAF F-16s ___ 11:0 (NOTE#3)
THK F-16s _____ 3:2 (Turkish AF victories over Greek AF)
USAFs F-16s ___ 3:0 (NOTE#4)

USN F/A-18s ___ 2:0 (Against two Iraqi MiG.-21's)

MiG.-29 _______ 10:28
Su-27 _________ (NOTE#5)


NOTEs;
1) Syria list four unconfirmed kills on IAF F-16s
2) Dutch AF's F-16A/MLU killed 1 Serbian MiG.-29
3) Indian AF makes no confirmed kill but, 8 unconfirmed kills claimed by Indian AF against Pakistani AF
4) 1 MiG.25, 2 Galebs all with Slammer Missiles
5) USAF & IAF have 9:0 kill ratio against MiG.-29's
6) Itemized totals;
3 Kills Confirmed
4 kills Unconfirmed
Victims ___ 1 L-39 Albatross and 6 MiG.-29's
No Su-27's shot down. All incidents except one (the kill of the L-39 by the RuAF) occurred in the Erethian / Ethioppian War.
The West has gained access to the Su-27 through mainly the states of the former CIS. Belarus, Moldova and, the Ukraine. I don't know how helpful Russia has been.

A pretty good place for information on aerial kills is -http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/index.shtml
On the left side of the page kills are listed by theater of operations.

Modern Air-to-Air & Air-to-Ground kill record thread





U.S. F-15 Eagle Kill Records:

5 Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrums
7 Iraqi Mirage F-1's
8 Iraqi Mig-23's
2 Iraqi Mig-21's
1 Iraqi ll-76
2 Iraqi SU-25 Frogfoots
3 Iarqi SU-7/17
1 Iraqi MI-24 Hind
2 Iraqi SU-22 Fitters
2 Iraqi MIG-25 Foxbats
4 Serbian Mig-29 Fulcrums
1 Afghan MI-24 Hind (F-15E)
2 U.S. UH-60 Blackhawks (fratricide)

Israeli F-15 kill records:

80-92 Mig-21 Fishbeds
several MIG-25 Foxbats

Royal Saudi Air Force F-15 kill records:

2 Iranian F-4E Phantoms
2 Iraqi F-1 Mirages
1 Iraqi Mig-25

Japanese F-15 kill record:

1 Japanese F-15J (accidental shooting by another Japanese F-15J)

U.S. F/A-18C Hornet kill record:

2 Mig-21 Fishbeds

U.S. F-14 Tomcat kill records:

2 Libyan SU-22 Fitters
2 Libyan Mig-23 Floggers
1 Iraqi MI-8 Hip

Iranian F-14 Tomcat kill record:

?????

U.S. F-16 Fighting Falcon kill records:

1 Iraqi Mig-29 or Mig-23
1 Serbian Mig-29
4 Serbian Soko G-4 Super Galebs
1 Iraqi Mig-25 (first AMRAAM kill)

Israel F-16 kill records:

2 Syrian MI-8 Hips
44 Syrian Migs (mostly Floggers)

Dutch F-16 kill record:

1 Serbian Mig-29

PAF F-16 kill records:

2 Russian SU-22 Fitters
8 Afghan Aircrafts
1 PAF F-16 (fratricide)


U.S. A-10 Warthog kill record (tanks and aircrafts):

2 Iraqi Mi-8 Hips
850 + Iraqi T-72 MBTs, T-62 MBTs, & T-55 MBTs
300 Iraqi APCs

U.K AV-8A Sea Harrier kills in the Falkland War:

1 C-130 Hercules
1 Mirage III
9 Mirage V's
1 Canberra
1 Pucara
6 A-4 Skyhawks



Iraqi MIG-25PD kill record:

1 U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet

Ethiopian SU-27 kill record:

4 Eritrean MiG-29s

Eritrean MiG-29 kill record:

1 Ethiopian Mig-21

Russian MIG-29 Fulcrum kill record:

1 Afghan SU-22 Fitter

Iraqi Mig-21 kill record:

1 Iranian F-14 Tomcat
Other Iranian/Kuwait aircrafts?

Indian Mig-21 kill record:

4 PAF F-104 Starfighters
 

average american

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Russia economy is 1/8 that of the USA, the USA spends 50 times more then Russia on research and development then Russia and its ridiculous to come to a conclusion based on past history belive in some fantasy that Russia is going to build superior aircraft. Its almost a fantasy to believe Russia can build air craft that dont crash on a fairly regular basis.

Russia's Military Collapse


"So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people, greedy, barbarous and cruel. As you are."

– Peter O'Toole to Omar Sharif in "Laurence of Arabia", 1962

Just last week, we editorialized about the shocking collapse of the Russian military. We pointed out that, in being forced to purchase weapons from NATO countries that it cannot manufacture itself, Putin's Russia was not only humiliating itself before the eyes of the world but exposing itself to grave danger: Its ability to maintain these weapons would depend solely on the good will of countries Russia considers its enemies. Russia is buying ships from France, armored vehicles from Italy and, if you can believe it, drone aircraft from Israel.

Now it's time to tell the other side of the story, namely the truly devastating impact of the pathetic inability of the Russian Kremlin to make its own weapons on the national economy. The always indispensable Paul Goble reports that even the Russians themselves recognize the horrifying consequences they face.

Goble notes that "the Italian deal represents an immediate threat to Russian workers who produce a similar piece of equipment." Goble relates that Russian union leaders predict that because of the Italian deal "more workers at the Arzamas machine-building complex, one of Russia's hard-hit company towns, will see their wage arrears increase or even see their jobs disappear entirely." The consequences are dire: "As of January 2010, wage arrears in Russian firms had reached, according to official figures, 4.1 billion rubles (135 million US dollars), including unpaid back wages in the region where Arzamas is located of 152 million rubles (5 million US dollars)."

And it turns out that "the Italian company which would sell the armored vehicles to Russia is a shadow partner of another Russian firm, KamAZ, whose director in turn is friendly with the leadership of the defense ministry." So it's not even clear that Russia can't produce these vehicles, it may be that it's not going to simply because of Russia's rampant corruption.

Regardless of the cause, however, fundamental defects in Russian society are revealed and the results of the diversion of Russian resources to foreign countries are clear: Unemployment and wage arrears for Russians.

Little wonder, then, that Russians took to the streets last weekend in a "day of rage" that saw dozens arrested on the streets, leaders arrested preemptively and the website that organized the protests shut down by the Kremlin. Russians are outraged at the savage mismanagement of their economy by the crude clan of KGB thugs whom Vladimir Putin has brought to power.

But too few Russians have the courage to stand up for their country and their future. The Kremlin is seriously undermining Russian national security by failing to address fundamental Russian backwardness and corruption, and it is pushing the economy to the brink of bankruptcy with its crazed KGB-fueled cold-war fantasies. If more Russians do not take action soon, we will see yet another national collapse from Russia.
 

average american

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The US does not have to have a perfect F22 and F35, all it has to do is have a better Fighter and better Strike Air Craft along with better pilots and better stratgy then our enemys, and now days that looks easy compared to when there was a USSR.
 

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