F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

Immanuel

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Air Force risks losing third of F-35s if upkeep costs aren't cut

https://www.stripes.com/news/air-fo...-of-f-35s-if-upkeep-costs-aren-t-cut-1.519246

"The U.S. Air Force may have to cut purchases of Lockheed Martin's F-35 by a third if it can't reduce operations and support costs by as much as 38 percent over a decade, according to an internal analysis.
The shortfall would force the service to subtract 590 of the fighter jets from the 1,763 it plans to order, the Air Force office charged with evaluating the F-35's impact on operations and budgets said in an assessment obtained by Bloomberg News."

"The long-term support concerns are on top of current F-35 challenges including parts shortages, unavailable aircraft and technical issues that must be resolved as the program ends its 17-year development phase. In September, the F-35 is to begin as much as a year of rigorous combat testing that's required by law. Successful testing would trigger full-rate production, the most profitable phase for Lockheed, as soon as late 2019."

"Stephen Lovegrove, the U.K.'s No. 2 civilian defense official, told reporters Tuesday at a Defense Writers Group breakfast in Washington that although the F-35 "is doing everything we hoped it would do," his country also is grappling with the size and scope of the future support costs for a "very, very complicated platform."

Lovegrove, the permanent secretary of the Ministry of Defence, said he'd be discussing the "slightly unknown territory" of long-term costs in meetings with F-35 program officials. The U.K. is buying 138 of the Marine Corps version of the F-35 designed to be flown off aircraft carriers.
"I am constantly being asked by parliamentarians in the U.K. what the total cost is going to be and they are sometimes, understandably, a bit frustrated when I have to tell them, 'At the moment nobody is entirely sure,'" Lovegrove said."

It was clear from the beginning. That plane is too costly (and the real costs are not the official ones, specially about sustainement). More SH18 and F15 (and maybe F16... oups F21) to be ordered.

Mark my words please :smile:
The Air Force analysis doesn't represent anything close to a final decision, according to spokeswoman Ann Stefanik. The potential reduction in aircraft was a "staff assessment on aircraft affordability. It's premature for the Air Force to consider buying fewer aircraft at this time," Stefanik said.

This is all the relevant part of the article, they have been trying to cut the program back for over a decade. There won't be any cuts not under Trump so that another 5.5 years of waiting for you. :rofl:
 

Immanuel

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A very detailled explanation about how immature is the plane so far.
How many blocks before F4 ? and again no FOC ..... a pity.
Well in current form better than any other aircraft and by block 4, a whole .5 gen better. A nice upgrade actually.
 

Immanuel

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F-35 only had 50% availability in 2018

WASHINGTON — Only about half of the F-35 fighter jets worldwide were ready to fly during an eight-month period in 2018, with the wait for spare parts keeping jets on the ground nearly 30 percent of the time, according to a new report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office.

The F-35’s much-maligned Autonomic Logistics Information System, or ALIS, can't even keep track of spare parts.

Trump's acting defense secretary called F-35 fighter jet program 'f----d up



So the availabity was better than the Rafale, wasn't the availabilty of Rafale in French Af around 48%?
 

Armand2REP

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So the availabity was better than the Rafale, wasn't the availabilty of Rafale in French Af around 48%?
It was up to 56% at the end of 2017. That is availability to fly at a moments notice. The Indian standard is 24hrs which is well over 75% as guaranteed by Dassault.
 
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BON PLAN

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The Air Force analysis doesn't represent anything close to a final decision, according to spokeswoman Ann Stefanik. The potential reduction in aircraft was a "staff assessment on aircraft affordability. It's premature for the Air Force to consider buying fewer aircraft at this time," Stefanik said.

This is all the relevant part of the article, they have been trying to cut the program back for over a decade. There won't be any cuts not under Trump so that another 5.5 years of waiting for you. :rofl:
I think it costs so much than even Trump will cut the program. And order instead F16, F15, SH18.
As GB,
As Italy,
As Netherlands,

If the jobs remain in USA, Trump is able to move the USAF white book. F15 instead of F35.... always built by proud american workers.
 

Immanuel

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It was up to 56% at the end of 2018. That is availability to fly at a moments notice. The Indian standard is 24hrs which is well over 75% as guaranteed by Dassault.
So roughly the same, while this doesn't mean the F-35 doesn't have problem with so many different versions flying. I am certain the availability in India would easily 75%.
 

Armand2REP

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So roughly the same, while this doesn't mean the F-35 doesn't have problem with so many different versions flying. I am certain the availability in India would easily 75%.
It couldn't possibly exceed 70% as 30% of them are down for lack of spares. The Rafales are down for upgrade to F3R standard.
 

BON PLAN

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Well in current form better than any other aircraft and by block 4, a whole .5 gen better. A nice upgrade actually.
so before block 4 it's not a whole 5th gen ? GOOD !!!! I agree.

But my dear, after so many years of developpment and so many fruitless blocks, you can be sure there will be a 4.1 as a block 4 patch, then a 4.2... The software job was ill born from the beginning, and now there are so many ligns of codes it's a nightmare because when you add something you modify another function....

This kind of problem was seen on Rafale, when they discover just before a flight that a patch (I don't remember to correct what kind of application) has a direct effect on carriage kinematic ! Because all is now collegated thanks to data bus. But the Rafale blocks was far better anticipated. From the beginning the road map was clear up to F3.3. F3.4 and mainly F3R are the first real new developpments not anticipated during the early 90's.
 

BON PLAN

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So the availabity was better than the Rafale, wasn't the availabilty of Rafale in French Af around 48%?
It's a french choice, to put some planes in storage.
On the french carrier, the availability is up to 75%.
 

Immanuel

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I think it costs so much than even Trump will cut the program. And order instead F16, F15, SH18.
As GB,
As Italy,
As Netherlands,

If the jobs remain in USA, Trump is able to move the USAF white book. F15 instead of F35.... always built by proud american workers.
I don't think so, the budgets are only increasing at a steady pace. As said before Trump will not sign any order to cut if there are job loses. Any cut would only come after they plan deferals i.e like Italty, spread the dliveries over a longer duration (which is always possible), while making interim orders on the F-15SE, F-18 Block3. This keeps the Teen lines open for another 5-8 years means potentially hundreds more orders for them which means direct competition with Rafale and the likes. What is absolutely hilarious is 70's era Teens are still selling like hot cakes.
 

Armand2REP

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I don't think so, the budgets are only increasing at a steady pace. As said before Trump will not sign any order to cut if there are job loses. Any cut would only come after they plan deferals i.e like Italty, spread the dliveries over a longer duration (which is always possible), while making interim orders on the F-15SE, F-18 Block3. This keeps the Teen lines open for another 5-8 years means potentially hundreds more orders for them which means direct competition with Rafale and the likes. What is absolutely hilarious is 70's era Teens are still selling like hot cakes.
You really forget who you are talking about. Mr. Trump is aka Mr. Boeing.
 

Immanuel

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so before block 4 it's not a whole 5th gen ? GOOD !!!! I agree.

But my dear, after so many years of developpment and so many fruitless blocks, you can be sure there will be a 4.1 as a block 4 patch, then a 4.2... The software job was ill born from the beginning, and now there are so many ligns of codes it's a nightmare because when you add something you modify another function....

This kind of problem was seen on Rafale, when they discover just before a flight that a patch (I don't remember to correct what kind of application) has a direct effect on carriage kinematic ! Because all is now collegated thanks to data bus. But the Rafale blocks was far better anticipated. From the beginning the road map was clear up to F3.3. F3.4 and mainly F3R are the first real new developpments not anticipated during the early 90's.
No I meant by block 4 it should be 5.5 gen.
 

Immanuel

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You really forget who you are talking about. Mr. Trump is aka Mr. Boeing.
Sure but F-35 is on a scale unlike any other program in the world and he is a pragmatist. Anyways the F-35 is planned to be service till 2070, there is plenty of time. This doesn't mean the F-35 program won't be kept on the pressure. All these costs studies, carefully planted stories on it's bugs, issues and costs are all well timed control mechanisms. This way they keep LM in check. But as far as cuts they have been talking about it since first flight. Companies like LM, NG, PW can put plenty of pressure on law makers in both Congress and Senate. They can also lobby at State Level.
 

Gessler

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So roughly the same, while this doesn't mean the F-35 doesn't have problem with so many different versions flying. I am certain the availability in India would easily 75%.
F-35 in India?

Sure buy F-16 first. Otherwise no F-35 for India.
 

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