F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[StealthFlanker]

effective....
How many dB ?

You would think information like that are classified.

And if really effective, just apply it to a 4th gen plane.

Not that simple, because some RAM such as fiber mat is literally part of aircraft structure, so applying it to 4gen could mean remake the whole outer skin, furthermore, at higher frequency, 4 gen lack design such as Radar absorbing structure, weapon bay ...etc, making the application of RAM less effective.

A X band radar is potent against a VLO, but at a smaller range.

if your missile can only track a VLO target few hundred meters aways then they are as good as useless

And in IR signature a 5th gen is not stealthy

There are IR reduction measures, besides IR guided missiles have inferior range to radar guided missiles
btw, Meteor can go pretty far

 

[asianobserve]

F-35 Melbourne Air & Space Show 2019

 

[BON PLAN]

You presume that F-35 does not have radar of its own and passive detection methods to maibtain its VLO profile in a fight. The AN/APG-81 will make short work of any 4th gen or 4.5 gen fighter sent out to look for the F-35.

If the F35 uses its own radar, it will be located at full range. It's the worst solution.
Even à LPI radar.

 

[BON PLAN]

...................................................................

Why only for Belgium crew ?

 

[asianobserve]

If the F35 uses its own radar, it will be located at full range. It's the worst solution.
Even à LPI radar.

First, it's very hard to pin down F-35's LPI radar. Second, the fighter vectored to hunt F-35 needs to turn on it's X-band radar to search and then lock unto an F-35, this is where it will be killed since the F-35 can passively target an enemy fighter that has turned on its X-band radar.

Again, 5th gen fighters like the F-35 will dictate the fight.

 

[StealthFlanker]

If the F35 uses its own radar, it will be located at full range. It's the worst solution.
Even à LPI radar.

Against air target, RWR mostly give you the general direction and not range or velocity. There are specific method to measure range to target with RWR but they are very time consumming and inaccurate , unlike radar that can give range, velocity, altitude (firing solution) almost instataneously

 

[doreamon]

91 f35 delivered in 2018... now thats called a super power

 

[asianobserve]

Israel may have used its F-35 jets to bomb Aleppo

https://mobile.almasdarnews.com/article/israel-may-have-used-its-f-35-jets-to-bomb-aleppo/

 

[asianobserve]

If the F35 uses its own radar, it will be located at full range. It's the worst solution.
Even à LPI radar.

Here's how the F-35 can blast the enemy fighter sent to hunt it (with F-35 remaining VLO)...

The AN/ASQ-239 “Barracuda” is an integrated Electronic Warfare (EW) and self-defense system. It is able to operate not just with other components within the aircraft such as the APG-81 but it can also operate with other F-35’s over MADL to perform EW operations together.

It’s able to precisely geo-locate emission locations hundreds of kilometers away, further then it’s radar can see and from there the APG-81 can be slaved to that data track and then detect and track the object with a very narrow beam, increasing power and detection on target while decreasing detection by other aircraft.

http://www.airdominance.nl/index.php/aircraft-f35.html

 

[asianobserve]

Another thing...

For starters, the F-35’s APG-81 radar is no longer just a radar. “It’s a multi-functional array” that automatically fuses information from “thousands of radars” in the aircraft, O’Bryan explains. And rather than the familiar sweeping cone, the F-35’s beam is more like a laser, able to focus on a specific target or on multiple targets (the exact number is classified) with ten times the power of an EA-6B Prowler, he says. Furthermore, a formation of four F-35s can alternate transmission of the jamming signal among themselves, again automatically. And with stealth capability, one or all four of the aircraft can operate from inside the target’s firing range.

“You start with 10 times more power, and if you are much closer and you are alternating signals between four airplanes with a stealth data link between them, you can do that jamming in a coherent, cooperative manner. The signal, the technique, everything is done for [the pilot].”

Equally important, where fourth generation radar are able to detect the arrival of a threat with plus or minus 30 degrees accuracy, the F-35 can pinpoint the threat to within plus or minus one degree, an advantage that is narrowed further with the assistance of a formation of four aircraft sharing that threat trajectory, he says.

https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/D...azine-the-joint-strike-fighter-driven-by-data

 

[asianobserve]

It is important to note that the US Marines will no longer operate Prowler EW aircraft with the introduction of F-35B. So thst alone shouls tell you of tge immense EW capability that the F-35 brings to the fight.

So to recap, it's stealth and it has incredible EW capabilities....

 

[BON PLAN]

Here's how the F-35 can blast the enemy fighter sent to hunt it (with F-35 remaining VLO)...

The AN/ASQ-239 “Barracuda” is an integrated Electronic Warfare (EW) and self-defense system. It is able to operate not just with other components within the aircraft such as the APG-81 but it can also operate with other F-35’s over MADL to perform EW operations together.

It’s able to precisely geo-locate emission locations hundreds of kilometers away, further then it’s radar can see and from there the APG-81 can be slaved to that data track and then detect and track the object with a very narrow beam, increasing power and detection on target while decreasing detection by other aircraft.

http://www.airdominance.nl/index.php/aircraft-f35.html

Sure,
But a fighter totally quiet, directed to its target thanks to another radar (ie a low band one) will not be detected unlike its IRST can track the F35 (not specially stealth in IR band) and fire a IR seeker missile for exemple. Specially if this missile is a medium range one (MICA)

 

[BON PLAN]

It is important to note that the US Marines will no longer operate Prowler EW aircraft with the introduction of F-35B. So thst alone shouls tell you of tge immense EW capability that the F-35 brings to the fight.

So to recap, it's stealth and it has incredible EW capabilities....

No. The real explanation is that USMC never operate alone (except in cold theater) : they will have the US Navy support, specially the Growler one.
the F35 is not a F22 + A10 + Growler combo.

 

[asianobserve]

Sure,
But a fighter totally quiet, directed to its target thanks to another radar (ie a low band one) will not be detected unlike its IRST can track the F35 (not specially stealth in IR band) and fire a IR seeker missile for exemple. Specially if this missile is a medium range one (MICA)

DAS can pick up the heat of the jet at 400 kms away (at least what is publicly acknowledged) and the info will be feed into F-35 radar to make a firing solution for AMRAAM/Meteor. Remember how in 2010 DAS picked up a rocket lunch 1900 kms away? I'm sure F-35 capabilities has only become better since that time.

 

[asianobserve]

No. The real explanation is that USMC never operate alone (except in cold theater) : they will have the US Navy support, specially the Growler one.
the F35 is not a F22 + A10 + Growler combo.

The USMC is a self-sufficient branch of the US military. It has its own aircraft carrier, ground forces and air force. It has been operating its own EW aircraft for a long time. But with the introduction of F-35B it does not have to do that anymore.

Even USAF is not inducting new aircraft to replace its EC-130 since it deems the F-35 sufficient to perform that role.

 

[StealthFlanker]

Sure,
But a fighter totally quiet, directed to its target thanks to another radar (ie a low band one) will not be detected unlike its IRST can track the F35 (not specially stealth in IR band) and fire a IR seeker missile for exemple. Specially if this missile is a medium range one (MICA)

1- what make you think low band radar can't be detected? they can be detected just fine, and low band radar will be even more effective against conventional fighter than they are against stealth aircraft.
2- Furthermore, an aircraft even without operating their own radar, can still be detected just fine unless they are stealthy otherwise there is no need for B-2 or F-117, you can just operate B-52 without their radio sensor. In other words, 4gen-4.5 gen aircraft are still easily detectable by radar even when they stay silent.
3- Since there are something called data link, not all F-35 in a squadron have to operate their radar, so you can have a squadron of 10 F-35, yet only 1-2 of them use their radars while the rest can stay completely silent.
4- Nothing is stealthy in IR band, but F-35 is not without a dozens IR signature reduction measures:
Cooling vents for fuselage:

Fant duct heat exchanger:

Serrated cooling nozzle:

High bypass engine

Masked nozzle:

and the IR signature will get even better with new AETP engine due to the added cooling from the third stream

 

[BON PLAN]

DAS can pick up the heat of the jet at 400 kms away (at least what is publicly acknowledged) and the info will be feed into F-35 radar to make a firing solution for AMRAAM/Meteor. Remember how in 2010 DAS picked up a rocket lunch 1900 kms away? I'm sure F-35 capabilities has only become better since that time.

Sorry, but I don't believe that DAS can catch a jet plume at such a distance (or 4 Tu160' Kouznetsov NK12 M in full reheat !). The air is not so clean, and so dry to do so.

 

[BON PLAN]

1- what make you think low band radar can't be detected? they can be detected just fine, and low band radar will be even more effective against conventional fighter than they are against stealth aircraft.
2- Furthermore, an aircraft even without operating their own radar, can still be detected just fine unless they are stealthy otherwise there is no need for B-2 or F-117, you can just operate B-52 without their radio sensor. In other words, 4gen-4.5 gen aircraft are still easily detectable by radar even when they stay silent.
3- Since there are something called data link, not all F-35 in a squadron have to operate their radar, so you can have a squadron of 10 F-35, yet only 1-2 of them use their radars while the rest can stay completely silent.
4- Nothing is stealthy in IR band, but F-35 is not without a dozens IR signature reduction measures:
Cooling vents for fuselage:

Fant duct heat exchanger:

Serrated cooling nozzle:

High bypass engine

Masked nozzle:

and the IR signature will get even better with new AETP engine due to the added cooling from the third stream

All wave band can be detected. But if a fighter has to change its mission because it detect a radar emission, no war mission can be executed.
A radar used to guide a fighter against a threat don't need to change of signal or waveform once it detect something ! so the prey, in our case the F35, see its environment as usual, and don't know a fighter is chasing it until it fires.

Heat and F35 : it is well known that F35 have regularly to open the bays to reflesh.... so the body is hot, and a 18T engine can't be cool.

 

[StealthFlanker]

All wave band can be detected. But if a fighter has to change its mission because it detect a radar emission, no war mission can be executed.
A radar used to guide a fighter against a threat don't need to change of signal or waveform once it detect something ! so the prey, in our case the F35, see its environment as usual, and don't know a fighter is chasing it until it fires

You are talking about this as if the only think the F-35 will detect is a ring tone that alert the pilot of the radar,
No, for ground radar, pilot will be able to locate their exact location.
Besides, there is literally nothing stop the F-35 from using its own radar, IR sensor to detect your fighter, especially if your fighter are not stealthy

Heat and F35 : it is well known that F35 have regularly to open the bays to reflesh.... so the body is hot

You keep repeating this myth as if it will finally come true if you repeat it often enough
No, the F-35 used to open its bay once in a while at low altitude and high speed because the extra tube and wiring recently added for maintenance purpose was not certificated for the inner temp, so the procedures were for extra safety

and a 18T engine can't be cool.

On the contrary, it can, the temperature and IR signature of jet engine is not directly proportional to their thrust value. I have explained this to you many times.

 

[asianobserve]

Sorry, but I don't believe that DAS can catch a jet plume at such a distance (or 4 Tu160' Kouznetsov NK12 M in full reheat !). The air is not so clean, and so dry to do so.

This is a footages of DAS and AN/APG-81 testing aboard a surrogate BAC 1-11 aircraft. These tests are 1,300+ kms to 1,900 kms distance.



Imagine a twin engined SU-27 class fighter at 400 kms distance. It will be clear as daylight to a formation of 4 F-35s.

Note also that these tests were carried out using only a BAC 1-11 aircraft whose max ceiling is only 11 kms while the publicly known ceiling of F-35 is 15 kms (most definitely its real ceiling is higher).