F-18 Advanced Super Hornet

[WolfPack86]

Boeing Receives 1st P-8I Indigenous Equipment From Bharat Electronics
Boeing today announced that it received a key communications technology for the Indian Navy’s P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft from Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) in April, one month ahead of schedule. BEL delivered the Indian-designed Data Link II, a communications system that will enable exchange of tactical data and messages between Indian Navy aircraft, ships and shore establishments. Boeing will install the system during P-8I final assembly at its facility in Renton, Washington.

“Our deepening partnership with Bharat Electronics Limited endorses our ongoing initiative to build and strengthen the aerospace supply chain," said Dinesh Keskar, president, Boeing India. "BEL’s efficiency in reaching this milestone highlights the speed with which the industry is maturing.”
Data Link II is the first Indian-manufactured item delivered to Boeing as part of the P-8I program. The P-8I is a variant of the P-8A Poseidon that Boeing designed and is building for the U.S. Navy. “Data Link II represents the first P-8I Industrial Participation project promised by Boeing in the area of avionics systems,” said Vivek Lall, vice president and India country head, Boeing Defense, Space & Security. “Boeing contracted BEL in August 2009 to build this critical communications technology, and they have done an outstanding job by delivering on their commitment.”

BEL Chairman Ashwani Kumar Datt said, “This milestone is a demonstration of the capability that BEL has developed to deliver cutting-edge work in avionics, software and structural components. We are pleased to partner with Boeing on the P8-I platform and we look forward to achieving many more milestones together.”

BEL’s delivery of the state-of-the-art electronics will support P-8I test and integration activities in Seattle. BEL will deliver the last of the Data Link components in late 2011. Boeing will deliver the first of eight P-8I aircraft to India within 48 months of the original contract signing, which took place in January 2009. India is the first international customer for the P-8.

Some info on Data Link II, courtesy BEL's Bangalore Office: Data Link II enables communication in fleet ships, submarines, helicopters / aircraft and shore establishments. This system enables Indian Navy personnel to exchange messages as well as tactical data in a speedy, reliable and secure manner. Functions: Message communication, Tactical communication. Benefits: Force multiplication of fleet by presenting super tactical picture as each platform in the network has both local (received from tactical system) and remote tactical data (received from another platform over the network). Facility to give tactical commands from various platforms. In certain critical situations (e.g. to avoid detection near enemy area), platform has to switch off all its sensors, but it is still be able to get the tactical picture over the network with remote from other platform's sensors. Missions can be accomplished for targets which are not within reach of local sensors but are detected by other platform's sensors and their position and other information is sent over the tactical network. Data Link II consists of a Main Peripheral Unit (MPU), Display Unit (DU) and a Keyboard Unit (see photo).
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2010/05/boeing-receives-1st-p-8i-indigenous.html

 

[Zebra]

@Zebra, hate to blow your bubble but figures are not supportive of French aircraft having cheaper maintenance.

A mirage2000 costs 10 crore per year compared to su 30 costing 4 crore.

Some of it is clearly IAF's attitude where Russian origin inventory gets a lower priority in funds allocation.

But also the fact that French parts are expensive.

What kind of bubble...! sir.

And today you are comparing a 1980s aircraft with Su-30 MKI.

 

[Screambowl]

Sir, still you cry for ToT. Not me.
It was me who said............ ToT never helped India.
Let me add in something more............ As the amount they paid for it.



Again, I was talking about US-India aircraft carrier deal / talks are better than Gorshkov deal bcz this aircraft carrier will get made and fitted in India with US help and support.



Prove it first.
India use many US manufactured aircrafts now.
Does they take permission every time when ever they dismantle something out of it........!



Bofors gun's ToT.

TOT is what India needs and it helps India in many ways. It is not necessary that ToT happens overtly.

Secondly, what ever you are saying about the aircraft Carrier deal is all random judgment and no one is heard anything about negotiation so we will keep that aside.

The day it is launched and the day it is operational, we will have something to discuss. You see negotiation will itself take more than 2 years. Lol

 

[Screambowl]

Boeing Receives 1st P-8I Indigenous Equipment From Bharat Electronics
Boeing today announced that it received a key communications technology for the Indian Navy’s P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft from Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) in April, one month ahead of schedule. BEL delivered the Indian-designed Data Link II, a communications system that will enable exchange of tactical data and messages between Indian Navy aircraft, ships and shore establishments. Boeing will install the system during P-8I final assembly at its facility in Renton, Washington.

“Our deepening partnership with Bharat Electronics Limited endorses our ongoing initiative to build and strengthen the aerospace supply chain," said Dinesh Keskar, president, Boeing India. "BEL’s efficiency in reaching this milestone highlights the speed with which the industry is maturing.”
Data Link II is the first Indian-manufactured item delivered to Boeing as part of the P-8I program. The P-8I is a variant of the P-8A Poseidon that Boeing designed and is building for the U.S. Navy. “Data Link II represents the first P-8I Industrial Participation project promised by Boeing in the area of avionics systems,” said Vivek Lall, vice president and India country head, Boeing Defense, Space & Security. “Boeing contracted BEL in August 2009 to build this critical communications technology, and they have done an outstanding job by delivering on their commitment.”

BEL Chairman Ashwani Kumar Datt said, “This milestone is a demonstration of the capability that BEL has developed to deliver cutting-edge work in avionics, software and structural components. We are pleased to partner with Boeing on the P8-I platform and we look forward to achieving many more milestones together.”

BEL’s delivery of the state-of-the-art electronics will support P-8I test and integration activities in Seattle. BEL will deliver the last of the Data Link components in late 2011. Boeing will deliver the first of eight P-8I aircraft to India within 48 months of the original contract signing, which took place in January 2009. India is the first international customer for the P-8.

Some info on Data Link II, courtesy BEL's Bangalore Office: Data Link II enables communication in fleet ships, submarines, helicopters / aircraft and shore establishments. This system enables Indian Navy personnel to exchange messages as well as tactical data in a speedy, reliable and secure manner. Functions: Message communication, Tactical communication. Benefits: Force multiplication of fleet by presenting super tactical picture as each platform in the network has both local (received from tactical system) and remote tactical data (received from another platform over the network). Facility to give tactical commands from various platforms. In certain critical situations (e.g. to avoid detection near enemy area), platform has to switch off all its sensors, but it is still be able to get the tactical picture over the network with remote from other platform's sensors. Missions can be accomplished for targets which are not within reach of local sensors but are detected by other platform's sensors and their position and other information is sent over the tactical network. Data Link II consists of a Main Peripheral Unit (MPU), Display Unit (DU) and a Keyboard Unit (see photo).
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2010/05/boeing-receives-1st-p-8i-indigenous.html

This has nothing to do with any good defence deal. It is just another sector where make in India plays its role and it wilm not restrict itself to US only.

 

[BON PLAN]

The markets are slow and the demands are getting lesser as the prices rise, So many of these aircraft companies (and those with allied technologies) will merge or simply be closed down. During WW2 there were more than 10 british companies making varieties of planes, Hawker (makers or Hurricane and Tempest). Supermarine (makers of Spitfire), Bristol (makers of Blenheim, Beaufighter), De Haviland (makers of Mosquito) Gloster (makers of the famous Gladiator and Meteor) Handley Page, Avro, Fairey .. just to name a few, How many of them exist? Many of these companies either shut down or merged to form a stronger comany (Hawker Siddley) and this later became the present giant British Aerospace. (BAe)

Now the markets are going to more difficult,. The engine makers will have orders but not in numbers as before as the planes themselves become expensive and as R&D cost rises, how does one pay for it? Either expensive engine (which in turn increase the cost of plane) and which in return deters the customers or to maybe have a ToT or JV . It is true that engine manufacturing is very intricate business. But how many countries really have the money to invest in developments of engines in future? Investing in engine business is a long term project something like a few decades. For companies like Saturn NPO they will have order from just few customers and both will be Russian (Sukhoi or Mikoyan) and these will be very limited units only with small order book. If the order book has to be made bigger then ToT or JV will be the best alternative. Ultimately by hook or crook, India will get things right about engines, its just matter of experience and slowly we are getting there.

As far France is concerned, they see India on cross roads and they want to try and take max benefit now, as if the French time it wrong, they stand to lose a lot. Rather they could in a way lose the entire share of their pie of Indian defence markets because they tried to be too tough on their conditions and prices.

What we have seen last weeks is Indian top brass trying to get more and more from the french side, not the contrary.

 

[Zebra]

TOT is what India needs and it helps India in many ways. It is not necessary that ToT happens overtly.

Secondly, what ever you are saying about the aircraft Carrier deal is all random judgment and no one is heard anything about negotiation so we will keep that aside.

The day it is launched and the day it is operational, we will have something to discuss. You see negotiation will itself take more than 2 years. Lol

So we are getting ToT for S-400, isn't it.....?

 

[Immanuel]

And fastly the world will come back to basics as Stealth is only a question of (small) time to be broken :
Low frequencies radars, Multi static radars, IR .... after tomorrow laser radars....

At the end, without the stealth cover, what will remain of a F35 : a fat bird, low manoeuvrable, with few load capacity, with high IR signature.
In that sense, a J31 seems better armed to embrace the futur.

A fat bird, doesn't make it any less deadly, heck even the MKI is fat. It's more maneuverable than the F-18SH and the F-16 it replaces with an internal combat load. More so, the engine has plenty of potential for growth and will be uprated before FOC, if anything with ADVENT set to deliver revolutionary changes by 2020, its engines will be a generation ahead of anything for another 10 years. It's heat signature with one engine should be less than the heat signature of most twin engine fighters, so such critisism can be given to the Rafale as well or any other 4.5 gen aircraft. Al of F-35's sensors including DAS, EOTS, AESA will be upgraded before FOC so chances are it will GaN and QWIP tech before others.

As for combat load, your deduction is based on what exactly, internally it will carry upto 6 A2A missiles which is the typical standard with 2/4/8 bombs depending on the weapon which is plenty for its needs. When missions don't require stealth, then it can easily carry more.

What makes it deadly is that the F-35 by FOC in 2021, will be deployed by Israelis, Dutch, Norway, Koreans, Japanese and many others. More and more weapons will be integrated including Aim-120D, Meteor, I-Derby-ER, Asraam, Python-5+, Spice Family, Paveway Family, JDAMs, CBU-105 SFW cans of 'cluster fuck', Spear-3, HARM-E, Harpoons, Joint Strike missiles and many more weapons.

 

[Screambowl]

So we are getting ToT for S-400, isn't it.....?

India does not require tot in every segment what it buy.

 

[WolfPack86]

F414 Fighter Jet Engine for Tejas, Amca and F 18 advance super hornet

 

[BON PLAN]

A fat bird, doesn't make it any less deadly, heck even the MKI is fat. It's more maneuverable than the F-18SH and the F-16 it replaces with an internal combat load. More so, the engine has plenty of potential for growth and will be uprated before FOC, if anything with ADVENT set to deliver revolutionary changes by 2020, its engines will be a generation ahead of anything for another 10 years. It's heat signature with one engine should be less than the heat signature of most twin engine fighters, so such critisism can be given to the Rafale as well or any other 4.5 gen aircraft. Al of F-35's sensors including DAS, EOTS, AESA will be upgraded before FOC so chances are it will GaN and QWIP tech before others.

As for combat load, your deduction is based on what exactly, internally it will carry upto 6 A2A missiles which is the typical standard with 2/4/8 bombs depending on the weapon which is plenty for its needs. When missions don't require stealth, then it can easily carry more.

What makes it deadly is that the F-35 by FOC in 2021, will be deployed by Israelis, Dutch, Norway, Koreans, Japanese and many others. More and more weapons will be integrated including Aim-120D, Meteor, I-Derby-ER, Asraam, Python-5+, Spice Family, Paveway Family, JDAMs, CBU-105 SFW cans of 'cluster fuck', Spear-3, HARM-E, Harpoons, Joint Strike missiles and many more weapons.

MKI is well powered, and shape for speed and manoeuvrability.
F35 is just fat. Not entered in service an uprated engine already necessary? strange that approach.
And not sure the actual engine has such margin... as it already has been pushed to counter balance heavyest weight of the bird.

IR signature never depend of number of engine ! You're a noob my dear.

FOC in 2021 as calculated today. OK. Same confidence like when it was calculated for 2012 in 2001 ?

F22 is a Tiger. F16 a Lynx. F35 will be a pachyderm.

 

[Immanuel]

MKI is well powered, and shape for speed and manoeuvrability.
F35 is just fat. Not entered in service an uprated engine already necessary? strange that approach.
And not sure the actual engine has such margin... as it already has been pushed to counter balance heavyest weight of the bird.

IR signature never depend of number of engine ! You're a noob my dear.

FOC in 2021 as calculated today. OK. Same confidence like when it was calculated for 2012 in 2001 ?

F22 is a Tiger. F16 a Lynx. F35 will be a pachyderm.

Well an ambitious project like the F-35, its normal the extra weight gain, happened to our LCA too. As for the engine, it has enough margin, in the near term, the F-135 can be uprated by 10%, but offcourse future blocks will also drop the weight of the F-35, its normal for a program. LCA is not yet fully in production and its being upgraded, its normal when delayed for their systems to be upgraded. You're being silly even the Rafale needed upgrades shortly after coming into active service.

hmm really sherlock, why not provide some proof as to how the F-35's IR signature is worse the the Rafale's? We'll see who the noob is.

The F-35's FOC is calculated as of today for 2021, sure its years late but its just about 9 years more advanced than the closest Rafale.

http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2015/pratt-recovery-f135-paves-way-future

Good luck standing in front of an agressive pachyderm, try not to be crushed like an ant while at it.

 

[Zebra]

India does not require tot in every segment what it buy.

I know it.

But still I ask you bcz, when ever we talk about US product, DFI people automatically bring ToT issues in it.

And I observed that when ever we talk about Russian product, they took totally different approach.

That's the point, nothing else.

 

[charlie]

Sir, every where the same story.
Trust me, I saw few people who cried a lot about the private company who made hull for nuke sub in India.
They said the same check the red color part..

Well at least L&T is an Indian contractor and it employee a lot of Indians as well as money stays inside the country.

And what about your country sir ...........! :biggrin2:
Canada is also one of the five eye country, if I am not wrong..

Well Canada is treated no differently we are also the dirty step child, Things were not as bad as now before oct/Nov 2015. You know after the last major spying or hacking incident things changed a lot. Now we get "I don't know what exactly that would be it's kind of a Warning or Newsletter" from FBI (more frequently)saying how to secure info as well as info of your colleague if he or she belongs to you know which country.

Now a days I hear the word customs a lot in my office which I didn't hear much before even a thumb drive is scrutinize.

How much ToT Russians and French offered to India till today.....?
Very old and simple question.

Well My brother-in-law has close ties with defence firms in Russia as he gets contracts from them to supply and repair some electronic parts, so I can see the difference between how we work and how they work.

Again Russian export law can be relaxed a bit, if you offer the right amount or even a little less, they do let go on some things.

My brother-in-law was giving an example of Azerbaijan about how there were issue and apparently they gave it away. (something you will never hear a US company will do, unless some sales guy is really despreate and does something stupid)

My boss was telling about Olympics in China, that our company was setting up a system for public services there but again oracle from our side came in as export control list but if China directly orders it from Oracle it would not be a under export control list. really weird laws in US

 

[garg_bharat]

The story of F18 is that the proposal has come towards the end of Obama administration. So I fear the push is not as strong as needed to make it happen.

I have a feeling next President may be more favorable towards India. I still give F18 a higher probability compared to RAfale.

F18 makes more sense for India, as its radar and engine can be used in AMCA.

Local production of such components will hasten the development of AMCA.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

F414 Fighter Jet Engine for Tejas, Amca and F 18 advance super hornet

Does it have thrust victor engine variant? AMCA is planned with 3D thrust victor Nozzle.

 

[smestarz]

MKI is well powered, and shape for speed and manoeuvrability.
F35 is just fat. Not entered in service an uprated engine already necessary? strange that approach.
And not sure the actual engine has such margin... as it already has been pushed to counter balance heavyest weight of the bird.

IR signature never depend of number of engine ! You're a noob my dear.

FOC in 2021 as calculated today. OK. Same confidence like when it was calculated for 2012 in 2001 ?

F22 is a Tiger. F16 a Lynx. F35 will be a pachyderm.

Pachyderm is still respected animal in south East Asia

 

[BON PLAN]

hmm really sherlock, why not provide some proof as to how the F-35's IR signature is worse the the Rafale's? We'll see who the noob is.

Easy my dear !
1) Rafale engine plume is surronded by fresh air, so as to reduce IR signature. EJ200 and F135 hasn't.
2) see how big the F35 is versus Rafale : it has a much bigger aerodynamic penalty. So at same speed it need much more thrust, so much more IR trace.

Is as simple as that.

 

[BON PLAN]

Pachyderm is still respected animal in south East Asia

OK.
But to be respectable doesn't make you effective.

 

[BON PLAN]

Well an ambitious project like the F-35, its normal the extra weight gain, happened to our LCA too. As for the engine, it has enough margin, in the near term, the F-135 can be uprated by 10%, but offcourse future blocks will also drop the weight of the F-35, its normal for a program. LCA is not yet fully in production and its being upgraded, its normal when delayed for their systems to be upgraded. You're being silly even the Rafale needed upgrades shortly after coming into active service.

hmm really sherlock, why not provide some proof as to how the F-35's IR signature is worse the the Rafale's? We'll see who the noob is.

The F-35's FOC is calculated as of today for 2021, sure its years late but its just about 9 years more advanced than the closest Rafale.

http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show-2015/pratt-recovery-f135-paves-way-future

Good luck standing in front of an agressive pachyderm, try not to be crushed like an ant while at it.

I fear less a pachyderm than a Tiger.

 

[Zebra]

.

Easy my dear !
1) Rafale engine plume is surronded by fresh air, so as to reduce IR signature. EJ200 and F135 hasn't.
2) see how big the F35 is versus Rafale : it has a much bigger aerodynamic penalty. So at same speed it need much more thrust, so much more IR trace.

Is as simple as that.

Sir, watch it @ 4:40.............................


Published on Jun 16, 2015, by GE Aviation