DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[fire starter]

 

[Tuco]

This is a Lockheed Martin product right, they are laser guided if I am not wrong. Got the link.

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/direct-attack-guided-rocket-dagr-missile/

 

[porky_kicker]

I posted about this in 2017.................

an unidentified guided rocket from VEM technologies

it looks to have a imaging seeker and most probably an air to ground rocket , not sure though

caliber 2.75 inch maybe again not sure

View attachment 21651

View attachment 21653

I remember cropping the same out of another pic

 

[Tuco]

I posted about this in 2017.................



View attachment 53992

View attachment 53993

Have they tested these products?

 

[porky_kicker]

Have they tested these products?

Don't think so

 

[porky_kicker]

@Bleh

MWF

 

[LurkerBaba]

@Bhadra I've moved your posts https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/constructive-criticism-of-defence-psus-and-ofb.81890/

Please dont derail this thread

 

[Bhadra]

@Bhadra I've moved your posts https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/constructive-criticism-of-defence-psus-and-ofb.81890/

Please dont derail this thread

Fine sir..

 

[amit19]

You know how old this video is?.. Some impressive precision displayed here hitting such tiny target.

Sir, the date shown in clip is fro 2014 @1.42

 

[Bhadra]

OK Guys .. let us be serious..

It seems DRDO is trying to get their acts together and are making verious kinds/ types of missiles . Not only ATGM as such but even general pupose Air To Surface missile such as Dhruva.

So there will be two versions of air launched missiles - HELINA and Dhruva. While HELINA will be didicated ATGM, Dhruvastra will be used for all targetting purposes including against tank.

We know that NAG and MPATGM will be ground launched ATGM.

My query is - what system will be installed on Dhruva/ Rudra/ ALH to control the missile environment specially Dhruvastra since it is long range and will use MMW and LOAL technologies. LOAL envisages that the helicopter pilot with his HUD. launcher. the launcher missile and a controller must exist and integrated together. LOAL also envisages that the missile can be directed to a target by another flying or ground controller...

Will that architect be compatible with Longbow of Apaches. Or both will remain in separate domain..
Can someone elaborate on that ?? I am sure it is not aiming without aiming.

 

[ARVION]

 

[Bajirao]

OK Guys .. let us be serious..

It seems DRDO is trying to get their acts together and are making verious kinds/ types of missiles . Not only ATGM as such but even general pupose Air To Surface missile such as Dhruva.

So there will be two versions of air launched missiles - HELINA and Dhruva. While HELINA will be didicated ATGM, Dhruvastra will be used for all targetting purposes including against tank.

We know that NAG and MPATGM will be ground launched ATGM.

My query is - what system will be installed on Dhruva/ Rudra/ ALH to control the missile environment specially Dhruvastra since it is long range and will use MMW and LOAL technologies. LOAL envisages that the helicopter pilot with his HUD. launcher. the launcher missile and a controller must exist and integrated together. LOAL also envisages that the missile can be directed to a target by another flying or ground controller...

Will that architect be compatible with Longbow of Apaches. Or both will remain in separate domain..
Can someone elaborate on that ?? I am sure it is not aiming without aiming.

Dhruvastra will not use mmw seeker.it will use either iir or, laser seeker.so,radar like longbow not necessary.

 

[Bhadra]

Dhruvastra will not use mmw seeker.it will use either iir or, laser seeker.so,radar like longbow not necessary.

If the range of the missile is more than 20 km then it would be a LOAL system... whatever may be the seeker.. The seeker will have to take command (generally an image) from the designator.
What is that going to be and how is the integrated architecture - that was the question which you made me repeat??
Care to tell me if HUD instrument in Apache is a radar ??

 

[Bleh]

Dhruvastra will not use mmw seeker.it will use either iir or, laser seeker.so,radar like longbow not necessary.

If the range of the missile is more than 20 km then it would be a LOAL system... whatever may be the seeker.. The seeker will have to take command (generally an image) from the designator.
What is that going to be and how is the integrated architecture - that was the question which you made me repeat??
Care to tell me if HUD instrument in Apache is a radar ??

Ok, that's not really accurate, until you consider the whole big picture.

3rd gen air-launched ones will eventually have infra-red (IIR) replaced to milli metric-wave (mmW) active radar homing seeker... its development being challenging.
Apparently SANT was tested for the 1st time last year, from a Mi-35 attack helicopter, so longbow like radar is clearly not needed, although the ATGM has a nose-mounted active radar seeker. Unaware about the details of its functioning.

Only CLGM & SAMHO (jeep-mounted recoilless version) developed by DRDO is confirmed as a semi-active laser-homing, making both 2nd gen.

.

But all these Fire-and-Forget & SACLOS missiles are more subject to electronic countermeasures than MCLOS missiles. If your LOAL is jammed & cutoff from the launch platform, it's screwed. So again wire-guided 1st gen MPATGM would be best for very-short ranges below 500m.
Until AI arrives to make them a loitering munition with capability to select own target (they can already identify, especially with electro-optic cam guided) LOAL will remain very vulnerable once detected.

 

[Bajirao]

If the range of the missile is more than 20 km then it would be a LOAL system... whatever may be the seeker.. The seeker will have to take command (generally an image) from the designator.
What is that going to be and how is the integrated architecture - that was the question which you made me repeat??
Care to tell me if HUD instrument in Apache is a radar ??

I don't know about apache.but,for lch and alh the infrared and elctro optical camera will be used for guidence purpose.for laser seeker laser targeting pod is must.

 

[Bajirao]

Ok, that's not really accurate, until you consider the whole big picture.

3rd gen air-launched ones will eventually have infra-red (IIR) replaced to milli metric-wave (mmW) active radar homing seeker... its development being challenging.
Apparently SANT was tested for the 1st time last year, from a Mi-35 attack helicopter, so longbow like radar is clearly not needed, although the ATGM has a nose-mounted active radar seeker. Unaware about the details of its functioning.

Only CLGM & SAMHO (jeep-mounted recoilless version) developed by DRDO is confirmed as a semi-active laser-homing, making both 2nd gen.

.

But all these Fire-and-Forget & SACLOS missiles are more subject to electronic countermeasures than MCLOS missiles. If your LOAL is jammed & cutoff from the launch platform, it's screwed. So again wire-guided 1st gen ones are best for very-short ranges below 500m.
Until AI arrives to make them a loitering munition with capability to select own target (they can already identify, especially with electro-optic cam guided) LOAL will remain very vulnerable once detected.

Mmw seeker is costly... hellfire use laser seeker..mmw equiped brimstone is used from aircraft mainly..mmw equiped atgm can be used without radar but probably it's full range can't be utilised without previosly captured radar image of the target and for mobile target that is quite hard without big radar.range of mm wavelenght is very short..

 

[Bhadra]

Jiski Jo Marzi aye Likh Deta hai...
Let me Kill the Issues so that those are not raised time and agains.

Signal Processing

The thermal sight used in the IIR guidance system can be used for MMW guidance system also for target detection and recognition.

The missile axis is aligned with the thermal sight so that the seeker looks at the target when the thermal sight is laid on the chosen target.

The MMW seeker has the slewing capability by which the lock-on is achieved before launch. However , in bad weather conditions, the thermal sight range deteriorates. Since the MMW seeker will have a range capability better than that of the thermal sight under such bad weather conditions, it would be desirable to exploit this extra range capability of the seeker under such situations.

For this, target identification algorithms which can perform without external aids, like thermal sight, are required. The target signature varies with the cross-section presented in azimuth and elevation, including changes in turret and gun orientation. Hence there is a need to evolve the identification algorithms which make use of aspect-invariant properties of the target. Multiple criteria, such as combination of target-to-clutter ratio (TIC), spread-to-mean ratio (S/M), etc. , have been suggested for use in identification algorithms. Generation of an extensive database for different types of targets, aspect angles and target-background combinations is required to evolve such criteria and algorithms. For detection and range and angle tracking separate and special type of algorithms are required to be evolved.

l1itse functions are suitably apportioned between the vehicle-bascd proces.c;or and the missile-based signal processor. Fast update time for real-time processing, minimum ~ .)wer consumption and minimum I:15e of components from reliability, space and cost considerations are the attributes for the flight processor .

 

[Bhadra]

LOAL

TRIGA T Long Range (LR) and .NAG are examples of the vehicle based/helicopter-borne third generation A TGMs.

These systems are based on LOBL concept. LoBL capability restricts the maximum range of the missile to 4 or 5 km. This restriction is due to the limit imposed by the maximum achievable range of the thermal sight and missile seeker due" to operational constraints of size, weight, power, etc.

To increase the maximum range capability, it would be essential to go in for lock-on-after-launch (LOAL) capability.

In this scheme, the missile is fired based on a priorj information in the general direction of the targets. The flight profile and missile system capability ensure that the missile reaches the target area within certain specified error basket" The seeker is activated at this point and with the scanning capability built into the seeker, it would be able to perform target detection and recognition functions.

However, this would need a lot more intelligence to be huilt into the missile signal processor in the form of fast and efficient algorithms based on suitable criteria for target detection and recognition, which is otherwise done with the help of the missile operator in the vehicle for the LOBL mission.

The LOAL class of missile can also be used for terminally guided submissiles (TGSMs) in a many versus many scenario ( multiple missiles being carried in a big bus missile against multiple targets).

Dual mode sensors, as and when configured for actual missile-bome use, would combine the advantages of the allweather capability of MMW system and the high resolution capability of the IIR system, apart from improved failure resistance features to be built in. However, the integrated design of the two seekers with the need for commonality in subsystem modules of the seeker to the exploitable extent and packaging the dual sensor based seeker within the already stringent dimensional and weight constraints of the single sensor-based seeker are the technological .challenges.

Hyper velocity missiles (HVM) and supersonic A TGM-3 with LOAL and dual sensor capabilities ,built into the seeker are other areas being focussed upon.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

OK Guys .. let us be serious..

It seems DRDO is trying to get their acts together and are making verious kinds/ types of missiles . Not only ATGM as such but even general pupose Air To Surface missile such as Dhruva.

So there will be two versions of air launched missiles - HELINA and Dhruva. While HELINA will be didicated ATGM, Dhruvastra will be used for all targetting purposes including against tank.

We know that NAG and MPATGM will be ground launched ATGM.

My query is - what system will be installed on Dhruva/ Rudra/ ALH to control the missile environment specially Dhruvastra since it is long range and will use MMW and LOAL technologies. LOAL envisages that the helicopter pilot with his HUD. launcher. the launcher missile and a controller must exist and integrated together. LOAL also envisages that the missile can be directed to a target by another flying or ground controller...

Will that architect be compatible with Longbow of Apaches. Or both will remain in separate domain..
Can someone elaborate on that ?? I am sure it is not aiming without aiming.

What is the talk about HELINA for army and LOAL Dhruvastra for IAF.. Makes no sense..

 

[ezsasa]

OK Guys .. let us be serious..

It seems DRDO is trying to get their acts together and are making verious kinds/ types of missiles . Not only ATGM as such but even general pupose Air To Surface missile such as Dhruva.

So there will be two versions of air launched missiles - HELINA and Dhruva. While HELINA will be didicated ATGM, Dhruvastra will be used for all targetting purposes including against tank.

We know that NAG and MPATGM will be ground launched ATGM.

My query is - what system will be installed on Dhruva/ Rudra/ ALH to control the missile environment specially Dhruvastra since it is long range and will use MMW and LOAL technologies. LOAL envisages that the helicopter pilot with his HUD. launcher. the launcher missile and a controller must exist and integrated together. LOAL also envisages that the missile can be directed to a target by another flying or ground controller...

Will that architect be compatible with Longbow of Apaches. Or both will remain in separate domain..
Can someone elaborate on that ?? I am sure it is not aiming without aiming.

so far according to info available, MMW will be used for 20km range SANT not for NAG variants.