DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Arpuster]

@porky_kicker Do u work in DRDO?

 

[armyofhind]

Why don't people give a little thought before passing judgement . Comparing a passive cooling vest with a active cooling vest

There's no such thing as active or passive cooling. Any such process designed to work on reducing temperature from what is ambient is "active".

Routing the present air conditioning of the vehicle into some pipes laid into a vest isn't "tech" development.

Water based cooling vests work off controlled evaporation action through the wicking action of the technical fabric. It's a property of the WarpxWeft construction of the fabric.
There too, an "active" process of controlled evaporation is taking place.

Perhaps you should make more effort to get the subject matter knowledge.

Fact of the matter is that cooling vests can be bought off the shelf.
There is no need to dedicate a separate budget into reinventing the wheel, of which I'm sure a sizeable portion has gone into the pocket of corrupt officials.

 

[porky_kicker]

I don't like to engage in needless arguments , I have got nothing to prove . If somebody wants to do that kindly dont engage me. Anybody is free to believe what he or she wants . I simply provide an alternate pov , rest is on the readers to decide.

A vest which works on water evaporation is a different deal , it won't work optimally inside a tank where the temperature is higher than that of the outside temperature . Water reserve in the vest will be expended quickly , not suitable for extended period of operations . Tanks carry limited supply of water . The air inside is contained during hatch down and NBC conditions. evaporation from 3 cooling vests will lead to condensation inside the tank , fogging the optics.

The DRDO cooling vests is close circuited and use coolants which is circulated and passed through a heat exchanger and is more effective in bringing the temperature down quickly and without any release of any kind of effluent evaporation . They will work for very long periods of operations and they will not fogg up the optics .

Note : the cooling vests are used because air conditioning is not available inside the said tanks

 

[porky_kicker]

@porky_kicker Do u work in DRDO?

Lol no

 

[armyofhind]

If poking holes in a solution is the objective, there is ample to be done then on either side.

There is a higher temperature gradient within the confines of a tank for sure, but that is exactly what the water based cooling vest is made for. Changing the fabric element allowing for wicking isn't a big deal, if further control on the rate of evaporation is needed.

As for fogging on optics, fogging takes place when surface temperatures are cold and there is vapour in the air. Not going to happen in the hot environment inside a tank, where there is already so much heat.

And I wouldn't go so far to call water vapour an "effluent" just to lend my point some credence by incorporating fancy vocabulary into it.

And about the need for water, if it is a part of the gear it can be planned for in advance, cooling vests work with any kind of water, doesn't necessarily have to be potable water.

In NBC conditions, when tanks are operating under hatch down conditions, there is already an air filtration and conditioning system working to keep the air inside clean, so that negates the entire need for a cooling system.



As for a coolant based heat exchanger, unnecessary complexity inside an already cramped confine is just one aspect.

Most coolant materials are highly corrosive, and there is an obvious tubing running from the system into the jacket.
What happens in the stress of combat when within the closed confines of a tank, one of those tubes comes off or tears and sprays coolant fluid all over?
I'm sure that is going to do a whole lot for the combat effectiveness of the crew.

From my perspective, a cooling vest is anyway a "good to have" piece of kit, not a "must have" as far as Armoured Warfare is concerned.

And when it comes to performance in combat, I think the greater the complexity of a system, the harder it will fail when it does.
If the same objective can be met with a mechanically/technically simpler solution, it's worth a try.

But then buying off the shelf doesn't make money for DRDO Babus.

Just my two cents. Out.

 

[Karthi]

3D schematic diagram of a reltron.

Model of a conventional reltron with cathode.

3D Schematic diagram of gridless reltron.


These are various Reltrons under design stage , in India . These are attractive sources for High power microwave Weapons . MILO is an another option , such a MILO was developed and handed over to DRDO and is using in DRDO HPM based Anti Drone system

 

[IndianHawk]

And I wouldn't go so far to call water vapour an "effluent" just to lend my point some credence by incorporating fancy vocabulary into it.

Why are we assuming water is used as coolent?

 

[armyofhind]

Why are we assuming water is used as coolent?

I suggest you read the earlier posts on the same topic. It was in response to a post written earlier by another member.

 

[IndianHawk]

I suggest you read the earlier posts on the same topic. It was in response to a post written earlier by another member.

I read his post about drdo cooling vest . He is saying coolant not specifying what coolent.

Then in reply you are implying water is used in drdo vest . So I'm asking what's the logic behind that assumption.

 

[armyofhind]

I read his post about drdo cooling vest . He is saying coolant not specifying what coolent.

Then in reply you are implying water is used in drdo vest . So I'm asking what's the logic behind that assumption.

I suggested a simpler alternative of a water based cooling vest, which are available off the shelf.

He went on to say that the evaporated water from those vests is an "effluent" inside the tank, to which I responded that I wouldnt go so far as to call it an effluent.

Water isnt used in the DRDO vests otherwise the whole point would be moot.

Water is used in the cooling vests available in the market.

 

[porky_kicker]

The optics have their own integral cooling system , thermal imagers etc in tanks etc won't work other wise . So fogging will occur more or less

My english is bad , I wrote what came to my head , if there is less fancy word for effluent , that would be most suitable , no objection on my part.

In NBC lockdown , over pressure or positive pressure is maintained to stop contaminated air from coming in . Even then chances of fogging will remain if the gunner or commander is using the optics due to close proximity.

When a system is designed , the designers don't simply built it as per their qualms . It is done after necessary checks are made regarding their feasibility and their utility followed by tests in the environment in which they are to be operated in real life conditions. There is a complete development cycle involved .

Provided one has proofs that the steps have not been followed then it's ok otherwise don't see the point .

Last comment on this

 

[Chinmoy]

There's no such thing as active or passive cooling. Any such process designed to work on reducing temperature from what is ambient is "active".

Routing the present air conditioning of the vehicle into some pipes laid into a vest isn't "tech" development.

Water based cooling vests work off controlled evaporation action through the wicking action of the technical fabric. It's a property of the WarpxWeft construction of the fabric.
There too, an "active" process of controlled evaporation is taking place.

Perhaps you should make more effort to get the subject matter knowledge.

Fact of the matter is that cooling vests can be bought off the shelf.
There is no need to dedicate a separate budget into reinventing the wheel, of which I'm sure a sizeable portion has gone into the pocket of corrupt officials.

To make complex matter simple, why don't you done your biker vest and sit inside a T72 for 1 hour while it doing a cross country run in Thar. If you are comfortable enough in it, that means DRDO has flushed money down the drain.

 

[armyofhind]

To make complex matter simple, why don't you done your biker vest and sit inside a T72 for 1 hour while it doing a cross country run in Thar. If you are comfortable enough in it, that means DRDO has flushed money down the drain.

Aww hostile much?

Its not a biker vest by the way, its a cooling vest. They are worn even by construction workers working in hot climates.

If its any consolation to you, I HAVE worn the very same vest I was talking about under my riding jacket and rode my motorcycle all the way from Delhi to Tanot, which by the way happens to be in the Thar.

As for the coolant based system with pipes running into the the vest, I'd like to know how many such systems are actually in service around the world, because I havent found any till now.

why don't you done your biker vest and sit inside a T72 for 1 hour while it doing a cross country run in Thar

As for this, if everything had to be done by the citizens themselves, then there would've never been a system of governments in the first place anywhere in the world.
Kindly think if what you're saying makes any sense.

I am only giving a simpler alternative to a problem. What actually comes into service, or if it comes into service at all, will of course be decided by the powers that be.

 

[Bleh]

Why don't people give a little thought before passing judgement . Comparing a passive cooling vest with a active cooling vest

To make complex matter simple, why don't you done your biker vest and sit inside a T72 for 1 hour while it doing a cross country run in Thar. If you are comfortable enough in it, that means DRDO has flushed money down the drain.

Aww hostile much?

Its not a biker vest by the way, its a cooling vest. They are worn even by construction workers working in hot climates.

If its any consolation to you, I HAVE worn the very same vest I was talking about under my riding jacket and rode my motorcycle all the way from Delhi to Tanot, which by the way happens to be in the Thar.

As for the coolant based system with pipes running into the the vest, I'd like to know how many such systems are actually in service around the world, because I havent found any till now.


As for this, if everything had to be done by the citizens themselves, then there would've never been a system of governments in the first place anywhere in the world.
Kindly think if what you're saying makes any sense.

I am only giving a simpler alternative to a problem. What actually comes into service, or if it comes into service at all, will of course be decided by the powers that be.

I read his post about drdo cooling vest . He is saying coolant not specifying what coolent.

Then in reply you are implying water is used in drdo vest . So I'm asking what's the logic behind that assumption.

Putting aside the typical hostility, there has been reports of T-90 crew members fainting of overheating in 55°C inside the metal structure... So this might as well prove a helpful tech to protect from heat-strokes, especially in middle of action.

But not enough to protect them when those moving coffins inevitably pop though. Russians are introducing flame resistant suits for their tankies. That's what they need too, like fighter pilots have G-suits... A full fireproof overall with cooled air being piped in it (like a tiny body hugging air-conditioning system).

 

[porky_kicker]

I don't get it

one guy offers a suggestion , it's ok since he made it himself
But
If another guy gives his suggestion , its deemed hostile

Lack of sportsmanship

Anyways

DRDO description of their product

PERSONAL COOLING SYSTEM (PCS)
Battle tank crew deployed in desert operations are subjected to extreme heat stress. The temperature inside the battle tank is reported to be 7-9 degrees higher than the prevailing ambient temperature due to reduced ventilation and radiation from metal. If the personnel have to operate wearing thermally restrictive clothing, the thermal stress will aggravate further. Mitigation of heat stress is essential to enhance mission endurance. Air conditioning of these vehicles leads to added weight and wastage of lot of energy. Therefore, cooling the personnel is the near perfect solution using microclimate cooling system which consists of an active cooling unit and a Liquid Cooled Garment.

DEBEL has developed an active cooling system based on miniature lightweight compressor that can work in an ambient of 60 Deg C. The system is lightweight & provides cooling upto 250 Watts. The system has been configured as an extremely compact backpack version.

This should end this needless discussion

 

[armyofhind]

I don't get it

one guy offers a suggestion , it's ok since he made it himself
But
If another guy gives his suggestion , its deemed hostile

Lack of sportsmanship

The way in which a suggestion is offered makes all the difference my friend. If you noticed, I kept my discussions civil and never asked anyone to "go and try out a piece of kit in a tank in the middle of the Thar" by themselves.

 

[porky_kicker]

The way in which a suggestion is offered makes all the difference my friend. If you noticed, I kept my discussions civil and never asked anyone to "go and try out a piece of kit in a tank in the middle of the Thar" by themselves.

Matter of fact everybody was civil here .

If I had half the wit and sense that chinmoy has , I would have mentioned the same earlier and walked away . That was a perfect sensible answer as far as I am concerned.

You accused me of fancy vocabulary and lack of subject matter , but I did not take offense or accuse you of being uncivil. So sir your objection is moot .

Why not end end this discussion , I am perfectly willingly to admit you are right and DRDO is wrong . Won't make any difference either way in the real world. Everybody has his or her view and everybody is welcomed to it.

 

[Bleh]

Matter of fact everybody was civil here .

If I had half the wit and sense that chinmoy has , I would have mentioned the same earlier and walked away . That was a perfect sensible answer as far as I am concerned.

You accused me of fancy vocabulary and lack of subject matter , but I did not take offense or accuse you of being uncivil. So sir your objection is moot .

Why not end end this discussion , I am perfectly willingly to admit you are right and DRDO is wrong . Won't make any difference either way in the real world. Everybody has his or her view and everybody is welcomed to it.

Forget it. But is that thing fire-proof? "thermally restrictive clothing" "Mitigation of heat stress" don't explain that.
Wouldn't an air-condition suit be microclimate as well?.. The whole crew compartment dont need to be cooled then... Just a small one sending out cool air by 3 pipes.

 

[porky_kicker]

Forget it. But is that thing fire-proof? "thermally restrictive clothing" "Mitigation of heat stress" don't explain that.
Wouldn't an air-condition suit be microclimate as well?.. The whole crew compartment dont need to be cooled then... Just a small one sending out cool air by 3 pipes.

No idea on that , since no information has been provided . No point speculating.

i didn't understand the second part of your query

 

[porky_kicker]

Cargo ground buildup system for automated cargo handling from a private Indian company , actually a start up