DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Amrk]

Very good docu. on Def Expo, lots of juicy stuff, also check out programmes like Saksham Bharat on RStv and LStv, much better and informative than private news channels programmes, also no shouting


.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

I have multiple questions,

Do Bharat have an indegenous CIWS weapons system ?
Pardon my Noobness here but does a CIWS system have a manual aim mode or It can only target incoming projectiles?
Like can an CIWS System on a ship fire at some trolley boat with terrorist which is closing in to the ship?

 

[Steven Rogers]

I have multiple questions,

Do Bharat have an indegenous CIWS weapons system ?
Pardon my Noobness here but does a CIWS system have a manual aim mode?
Like can an CIWS System on a ship fire at some trolley boat with terrorist which is closing in to the ship?

Ofb have made one

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[Tanmay]

I have multiple questions,

Do Bharat have an indegenous CIWS weapons system ?
Pardon my Noobness here but does a CIWS system have a manual aim mode or It can only target incoming projectiles?
Like can an CIWS System on a ship fire at some trolley boat with terrorist which is closing in to the ship?

AK 630 : Russian ciws licensed manufactured here. Idk indeginisation percentage .

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wmc/add_12.html

Bhel is trying to make indigenous one. But this is not anti SAM rather like RCIWS of tanks

https://www.google.co.in/url?url=ht...ridwar+76+mm&usg=AOvVaw1n-j82LtC-9WDtnmiAuMlU

Ciws (even Ak 630 ) can be used in manual mode for anti ship role ( pirate boats etc)

 

[Chinmoy]

This will ensure PAF Fighters will not be able to take off.

Yeah HAS and PAS would be minch meat....

 

[binayak95]

AK 630 : Russian ciws licensed manufactured here. Idk indeginisation percentage .

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wmc/add_12.html

Bhel is trying to make indigenous one. But this is not anti SAM rather like RCIWS of tanks

https://www.google.co.in/url?url=ht...ridwar+76+mm&usg=AOvVaw1n-j82LtC-9WDtnmiAuMlU

Ciws (even Ak 630 ) can be used in manual mode for anti ship role ( pirate boats etc)

Pretty shitty indigenization in the AK-630... its a pretty average CIWS too (open looped and thus not as accurate as say, the Phalanx or the Goalkeeper) BHEL is trying to, dont know how far they have come along.

 

[Kshithij]

Pretty shitty indigenization in the AK-630... its a pretty average CIWS too (open looped and thus not as accurate as say, the Phalanx or the Goalkeeper) BHEL is trying to, dont know how far they have come along.

Ak630 is very easy to make and is cheap. The fire control radar and other controls can always be upgraded to make the gun more accurate.

The advantage of phalanx is that it uses bigger caliber shell (it is also 30mm caliber but longer shell), has over 20% more muzzle velocity and consequently 60% more energy and an excellent fire control radar which runs the gun in automater manner. The gun also fires to a longer ranr and has more energy to cause damage to enemy shios. Phalanx can also act as SAM against missiles

But phalanx also has disadvantage that its barrel is longer, thicker and hence heavier. The gun weighs 6ton whereas AK630 weighs 3tons. The radaris also more sophisticated and hence more expensive. The ammunition's also weigh more than tgat if AK630. The AK630 is smaller and can be mounted on patrol boats, the radar is cheap to make. The ammunition weighs less and overall is a giid gun for short range targeting of enemy boats, supply ships etc.

 

[abingdonboy]

Ak630 is very easy to make and is cheap. The fire control radar and other controls can always be upgraded to make the gun more accurate.

The advantage of phalanx is that it uses bigger caliber shell (it is also 30mm caliber but longer shell), has over 20% more muzzle velocity and consequently 60% more energy and an excellent fire control radar which runs the gun in automater manner. The gun also fires to a longer ranr and has more energy to cause damage to enemy shios. Phalanx can also act as SAM against missiles

But phalanx also has disadvantage that its barrel is longer, thicker and hence heavier. The gun weighs 6ton whereas AK630 weighs 3tons. The radaris also more sophisticated and hence more expensive. The ammunition's also weigh more than tgat if AK630. The AK630 is smaller and can be mounted on patrol boats, the radar is cheap to make. The ammunition weighs less and overall is a giid gun for short range targeting of enemy boats, supply ships etc.

For the IN that has 7,000++ ton vessels that cost almost $1B each, weight and cost of Phalanx type systems isn’t an issue, it should all be about capability and the AK-630 is WOEFULLY outdated. The IN honestly disappoints me with how backwards they can be, even on their cutting edge new gen frigates they are planning to place LW-08 VSRs for some reason, which is actually a step backwards compared to even what the P-17s have! LRDE have made plenty of suitable VSRs, not sure why IN is so blind and deaf to this, paying $1bn for a frigate with a 1980s Radar is beyond absurd.

IN had issued and RFI for new gen fun based CIWS a while back but it seemed nothing much came of that.

 

[Kshithij]

For the IN that has 7,000++ ton vessels that cost almost $1B each, weight and cost of Phalanx type systems isn’t an issue, it should all be about capability and the AK-630 is WOEFULLY outdated. The IN honestly disappoints me with how backwards they can be, even on their cutting edge new gen frigates they are planning to place LW-08 VSRs for some reason, which is actually a step backwards compared to even what the P-17s have! LRDE have made plenty of suitable VSRs, not sure why IN is so blind and deaf to this, paying $1bn for a frigate with a 1980s Radar is beyond absurd.

IN had issued and RFI for new gen fun based CIWS a while back but it seemed nothing much came of that.

Do you understand that the ships carry advanced radars like MF STAR for Barak-8 and not 1980s radar? AK630 is only close quarter engagement system and is a small part of the ship.

India also uses 400-500ton ships like patrol boat. 7000t ships are exception rather than norm

 

[binayak95]

Ak630 is very easy to make and is cheap. The fire control radar and other controls can always be upgraded to make the gun more accurate.

The advantage of phalanx is that it uses bigger caliber shell (it is also 30mm caliber but longer shell), has over 20% more muzzle velocity and consequently 60% more energy and an excellent fire control radar which runs the gun in automater manner. The gun also fires to a longer ranr and has more energy to cause damage to enemy shios. Phalanx can also act as SAM against missiles

But phalanx also has disadvantage that its barrel is longer, thicker and hence heavier. The gun weighs 6ton whereas AK630 weighs 3tons. The radaris also more sophisticated and hence more expensive. The ammunition's also weigh more than tgat if AK630. The AK630 is smaller and can be mounted on patrol boats, the radar is cheap to make. The ammunition weighs less and overall is a giid gun for short range targeting of enemy boats, supply ships etc.

Bhai. Do you even realise what you wrote? Leave aside the fact that you are factually downright wrong most of the time. The Phalanx is 20 mm calibre. It's a smaller and faster round. It doesn't matter what calibre you use for air defence. Hell even a rotary 12.7 mm HMG is good enough.

The AK 630 can't be used for patrol boats because it's ammunition stowage and feed is below deck, unlike the Phalanx which is self contained unit (there is no deck penetration)
The Phalanx's (or preferably, the Goalkeeper) accuracy more than justifies the price of the radar and tracking system. The Ak630 cannot be improved beyond a point! Because it's an open looped system.. read what an open looped system means.. before you come in and comment again.

 

[binayak95]

Do you understand that the ships carry advanced radars like MF STAR for Barak-8 and not 1980s radar? AK630 is only close quarter engagement system and is a small part of the ship.

India also uses 400-500ton ships like patrol boat. 7000t ships are exception rather than norm

Which patrol boat has an AK630 again? All patrol boats are armed with CRN 91s. 30mm autocannons. Not CIWS

 

[Suryavanshi]

Brother do u think middle men and babus were involved in this deal.
I say this because Navy has been mostly sensible when it comes to procurement, our indigenous industry has reached new milestone thanks to indian navy.
This may be due to new navy admira tho does he have any say in these type of deal.

 

[Kalki_2018]

The Phalanx gun system has an dismal record in service including the gulf war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS
Look under incidents.

 

[Kshithij]

Bhai. Do you even realise what you wrote? Leave aside the fact that you are factually downright wrong most of the time. The Phalanx is 20 mm calibre. It's a smaller and faster round. It doesn't matter what calibre you use for air defence. Hell even a rotary 12.7 mm HMG is good enough.

The AK 630 can't be used for patrol boats because it's ammunition stowage and feed is below deck, unlike the Phalanx which is self contained unit (there is no deck penetration)
The Phalanx's (or preferably, the Goalkeeper) accuracy more than justifies the price of the radar and tracking system. The Ak630 cannot be improved beyond a point! Because it's an open looped system.. read what an open looped system means.. before you come in and comment again.

The closed loop and open loop are basic engineering stuff and I know it well. about 30mm pahalanx, I got confused by goalkeeper and Phalanx. Goal keeper is 30mm. My bad.

Yes, you are right that Ak630 will need to be replaced, especially the fire control radar with a closed loop one. But the gun mount itself is fine. The gun's guidance and fire control is the weakness. Considering that India has made many SAMs like Akash, QRSAM and BVR missile like Astra, all of which needs radar guidance, I see bright chances of India making its own CIWS with closed loop. Importing phalanx is not meaningful as the spare part dependency will complicate things for much of the future

Which patrol boat has an AK630 again? All patrol boats are armed with CRN 91s. 30mm autocannons. Not CIWS

By patrol boats, I meant most of the non surface combat oriented ships including OPV, corvette, landing crafts, ASW etc Some of the ships where Ak630 or similar Kashtan/Ak230 is used:

Kumbhir Class landing ship
Abhay class corvette
Veer class corvette
Sukhanya class OPV
Saryu class OPV

CRN 91 is a simple gun and is manually controlled.

 

[binayak95]

Ag

The closed loop and open loop are basic engineering stuff and I know it well. about 30mm pahalanx, I got confused by goalkeeper and Phalanx. Goal keeper is 30mm. My bad.

Yes, you are right that Ak630 will need to be replaced, especially the fire control radar with a closed loop one. But the gun mount itself is fine. The gun's guidance and fire control is the weakness. Considering that India has made many SAMs like Akash, QRSAM and BVR missile like Astra, all of which needs radar guidance, I see bright chances of India making its own CIWS with closed loop. Importing phalanx is not meaningful as the spare part dependency will complicate things for much of the future



By patrol boats, I meant most of the non surface combat oriented ships including OPV, corvette, landing crafts, ASW etc Some of the ships where Ak630 or similar Kashtan/Ak230 is used:

Kumbhir Class landing ship
Abhay class corvette
Veer class corvette
Sukhanya class OPV
Saryu class OPV

CRN 91 is a simple gun and is manually controlled.

Again with the confusion. Kashtan is present only on the first three Talwar class FFGs. AK230 is a far simpler general purpose weapon that dates to the 1971 war. It's no longer used. Patrol boats CANNOT use AK630 or any CIWS. OPVs qualify as Corvettes given their significant weight and thus they do use.

About replacing AK630. DAMN RIGHT WE HAVE TO. But it's not a priority unfortunately. The Barak 8 has made the IN supremely confident in its AD capabilities.

 

[binayak95]

Brother do u think middle men and babus were involved in this deal.
I say this because Navy has been mostly sensible when it comes to procurement, our indigenous industry has reached new milestone thanks to indian navy.
This may be due to new navy admira tho does he have any say in these type of deal.

Which deal?

30 characters... Chutiyaap

 

[binayak95]

The Phalanx gun system has an dismal record in service including the gulf war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS
Look under incidents.

No CIWS has actually been put to use in a critical last ditch anti missile defense. That's the hard fact. Ak 630 is even worse on paper.

 

[Tanmay]

Ag

Again with the confusion. Kashtan is present only on the first three Talwar class FFGs. AK230 is a far simpler general purpose weapon that dates to the 1971 war. It's no longer used. Patrol boats CANNOT use AK630 or any CIWS. OPVs qualify as Corvettes given their significant weight and thus they do use.

About replacing AK630. DAMN RIGHT WE HAVE TO. But it's not a priority unfortunately. The Barak 8 has made the IN supremely confident in its AD capabilities.

People probably got confused.
Multibarrel CIWS like Phalanx and AK630 are used as last ditch effort against SAM and an additional role as anti-pirate/anti-terrorist (Remember USS Cole)

20mm/30mm single barrel guns are to be used in patrol boats for dedicated anti-pirate role.
Little or no antiSAM role except for maybe slow moving helos.
This is CRN-91. Its based on BMP-2 turret. Gun suffers from poor firecontrol issues

Possible BHEL replacement for this gun.

As you can see unlike anti SAM CIWS (5000 rouns/min) we are developing "anti-pirate" CIWS (200rds/min)

We are not replacing AK-630 anytime soon.
Only INS Jalashwa is equipped with Phalanx.
CRN-91 is on its way out.

 

[patriots]

GTRE still says they intend to fly a prototype on Tejas test vehicle by next year................................................

 

[patriots]

indigenous engine for Arjun is in testing.......

...................................................
........