DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Chinmoy]

Yeah the japs...In 2010 i guess. But that was flown under mach 2. But that was a complete different thing than this one.

That is the practical precooled engine.

When you brought in the bomber role with a hybrid hypersonic precooled engine, you have taken out human factor from it. So the afore mentioned role could be carried out by a conventional hypersonic engine base platform too.

But for a bomber like role or civil aviation purpose, an ATREX like engine is more practical.

 

[Karthi]

If possible, copy the content and paste it in a post. Members will be able to search later.

It's already posted here . Few pages back all the technology discussing here are actually under active research by varioys Indian institutions, the precooled jetengine was actually researched( atleast theroatically) many years ago , I seen one from 1961 . And every one chill.

 

[Chinmoy]

One more: LRDE says " First Ground based radar with Dual Frequency of operation for operation in inclement weather conditions" and "Detection algorithms for small RCS targets (boats & dingies) in presence heavy sea clutters".
Maybe our Project-18 destroyers would see dual band MF radar in S and X band.

The BMD deployment discussed in the thread early today is make use of Dual band operation.

 

[BrigadierRPS]

Actually the one you are talk about operates in the low hypersonic mach regime, the advantage of the hybrid rocket engine is that it can directly go to the space if you have enough liquid oxygen stored inside. Also the operating speed will be higher. Can be useful to insert satellites in LEO in rapid succession.

That is the practical precooled engine.

When you brought in the bomber role with a hybrid hypersonic precooled engine, you have taken out human factor from it. So the afore mentioned role could be carried out by a conventional hypersonic engine base platform too.

But for a bomber like role or civil aviation purpose, an ATREX like engine is more practical.

 

[Chinmoy]

Actually the one you are talk about operates in the low hypersonic mach regime, the advantage of the hybrid rocket engine is that it can directly go to the space if you have enough liquid oxygen stored inside. Also the operating speed will be higher. Can be useful to insert satellites in LEO in rapid succession.

Right. Avatar is our project for that.

But saying that we are not working on it or chinese would use it to develop bombers is something out of context or far reached.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

The BMD deployment discussed in the thread early today is make use of Dual band operation.

Which bands?
BTW, look what I found:-

Dual Band Antenna for Radar Applications | Principal Scientific Adviser

Problem Statement Modern Radars operate in dual bands to meet search and precise tracking requirements. Dual-Band radar as a protection mechanism is installed in aircraft for protection against hostile entities like missiles. A Missile approach warning sensor that triggers the countermeasure...

www.psa.gov.in

They want to build dual band with an L-band and Ka-band. Peak power 500W. Wonder what it'll be used for. Purpose:-

as a protection mechanism is installed in aircraft for protection against hostile entities like missiles. A Missile approach warning sensor that triggers the countermeasure consists of a dual-band RF system that needs a dual-band antenna. Currently, the industry needs onboard dual-band radars for advanced ECM mechanism. The shared aperture antenna along with a laser outlet is an integral part of the system. The development of these antennas will enable the indigenous development of high precision dual-band radars.

Study by BARC also.
View attachment 121240

I had no idea this material is of interest to BARC as a neutron absorber. But this is not a fiber-matrix composite. Fracture toughness won't be good for aerospace applications. That said, I found out that Nuclear Fuels Complex and BARC have created facilities build the ZrB2 from scratch:-

Production of Zirconium diboride (ZrB₂) powder and Fabrication of high density ZrB₂ shapes – Bhabha Atomic Research Centre ( BARC )

A premier multi-disciplinary Nuclear Research Centre of India having excellent infrastructure for advanced Research and Development with expertise covering the entire spectrum of Nuclear Science and Engineering and related areas

barc.gov.in

So part of the puzzle is done.

The missing piece is still SiC fiber and then the process to make it into required CMC. Even Carbon fiber might work, though won't be as good. Lets me see what DMRL has done recently.

 

[fire starter]

Right. Avatar is our project for that.

But saying that we are not working on it or chinese would use it to develop bombers is something out of context or far reached.

SABRE is a evolution of LACE engine.

 

[fire starter]

Which bands?
BTW, look what I found:-

Dual Band Antenna for Radar Applications | Principal Scientific Adviser

Problem Statement Modern Radars operate in dual bands to meet search and precise tracking requirements. Dual-Band radar as a protection mechanism is installed in aircraft for protection against hostile entities like missiles. A Missile approach warning sensor that triggers the countermeasure...

www.psa.gov.in

They want to build dual band with an L-band and Ka-band. Peak power 500W. Wonder what it'll be used for. Purpose:-



I had no idea this material is of interest to BARC as a neutron absorber. But this is not a fiber-matrix composite. Fracture toughness won't be good for aerospace applications. That said, I found out that Nuclear Fuels Complex and BARC have created facilities build the ZrB2 from scratch:-

Production of Zirconium diboride (ZrB₂) powder and Fabrication of high density ZrB₂ shapes – Bhabha Atomic Research Centre ( BARC )

A premier multi-disciplinary Nuclear Research Centre of India having excellent infrastructure for advanced Research and Development with expertise covering the entire spectrum of Nuclear Science and Engineering and related areas

barc.gov.in

So part of the puzzle is done.

The missing piece is still SiC fiber. Even Carbon fiber might work, though won't be as good. Lets me see what DMRL has done recently.

Its for DIRCM.

Regarding sic fiber.

SILICON CARBIDE FIBRE | Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO, Ministry of Defence, Government of India

High temperature low density closed cell SiC foam.

www.drdo.gov.in

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Its for DIRCM.

Regarding sic fiber.

SILICON CARBIDE FIBRE | Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO, Ministry of Defence, Government of India

High temperature low density closed cell SiC foam.

www.drdo.gov.in

Yeah, they say they have developed SiC-ZrB2 CMC but I still want to search for the papers to see of what quality and if they are using SiC fibers made in India or imported. I'll look into it a bit more.


BTW, looks like they managed to increase l/d ratio of the penetrator for the FSPADS from 20 of the Mk2 round to 23. And they demonstrated steel jacketed penetrator as well. Seems like they'll come out with a 600-650mm RHAe round in some time. Lets see how they get to 800mm after that. Meanwhile, Americans are still far away at 40 with >1 meter pen.

SABRE is a evolution of LACE engine.

I remember ISRO talking about LACE engines in many older presentations.

 

[BrigadierRPS]

Avatar was just a feasibility study by a group of DRDO scientists. ISRO was not involved in that. There is no fund allocated for the project either. It is completely non existent. For the project to be successful you need to develop the critical subcomponents first. Nothing has been done till now. Whereas china has already tested a downscaled engine in a ground based testbed. To think that china won't achieve this or won't militarize this technology is utter foolishness. The US startup HERMEUS has recently unveiled their unmanned mach 6 flight capable aircraft, a downscaled model of the actual intended HERMEUS One.

Right. Avatar is our project for that.

But saying that we are not working on it or chinese would use it to develop bombers is something out of context or far reached.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Avatar was just a a feasibility study by a group of DRDO scientists. ISRO was not involved in that. There is no fund allocated for the project either. It is completely non existent. For the project to be successful you need to develop the critical subcomponents first. Nothing has been done till now. Whereas china has already tested a downscaled engine in a ground based testbed. To think that china won't achieve this or won't militarize this technology is utter foolishness. The US startup HERMEUS has recently unveiled their unmanned mach 6 flight capable aircraft, a downscaled model of the actual intended HERMEUS One.

China has more funds to throw around. We should focus on ensuring we can at least defend against that capability they are developing. So the focus should be on investing in hypersonic missile defence, which requires space-based VLWIR sensors.
Once our economic heft increases and the current round of modernization of Armed Forces progresses further to the point where R&D funds for future tech becomes available, we'll see these projects getting funded.

 

[Chinmoy]

Which bands?

L and S band.

 

[SavageKing456]

 

[Karthi]

Which bands?
BTW, look what I found:-

Dual Band Antenna for Radar Applications | Principal Scientific Adviser

Problem Statement Modern Radars operate in dual bands to meet search and precise tracking requirements. Dual-Band radar as a protection mechanism is installed in aircraft for protection against hostile entities like missiles. A Missile approach warning sensor that triggers the countermeasure...

www.psa.gov.in

They want to build dual band with an L-band and Ka-band. Peak power 500W. Wonder what it'll be used for. Purpose:-



I had no idea this material is of interest to BARC as a neutron absorber. But this is not a fiber-matrix composite. Fracture toughness won't be good for aerospace applications. That said, I found out that Nuclear Fuels Complex and BARC have created facilities build the ZrB2 from scratch:-

Production of Zirconium diboride (ZrB₂) powder and Fabrication of high density ZrB₂ shapes – Bhabha Atomic Research Centre ( BARC )

A premier multi-disciplinary Nuclear Research Centre of India having excellent infrastructure for advanced Research and Development with expertise covering the entire spectrum of Nuclear Science and Engineering and related areas

barc.gov.in

So part of the puzzle is done.

The missing piece is still SiC fiber and then the process to make it into required CMC. Even Carbon fiber might work, though won't be as good. Lets me see what DMRL has done recently.

I think we discussed the same in Kaveri Thread and i posted few Research papers on it .

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

I think we discussed the same in Kaveri Thread and i posted few Research papers on it .

I think that was about SiC-SiC CMC for turbine blades. This is for ZrB2-SiC CMC for TPS on hypersonic aircraft.

The article mentions bird ingestion test in Russia, but @Karthi posted pics of such a facility in India itself.

 

[SavageKing456]

What happened to HGV 202F?
Looks like they showed some video to navy guys in background

 

[Karthi]

SABRE is a kind of Airbreathing Rocket. In which ISRO had knowledge. In the attached document VASCO scientist saying about that . In orginal SABRE engine which is a concept of reactions engines limited UK two technologies combined together Precooled Jetengine and a closed cycle Rocket Engine.

In the second Doc former CmD of BDL talking about ABR engine. China doesn't have a very reliable Jetengine only recently they have sime what succeeded in Jetengine , and it's almost impossible to make that Jetengine into a precooled Jetengine in a short span of time. In ISRO thread me and others posted about SSTO and TSTO concepts of ISRO which are very similar to SABRE , Jetengine DMRJ combined together to make a space plane first TD expected to be in 2030 . Kaveri Engine will be a success in this decade ( hope so) so we are not that much behind in SSTO technologies.

 

[fire starter]

 

[Love Charger]

What about AK 203 ?

 

[BrigadierRPS]

China is not going for jetengine or precooled jet engine guys. They are going for a completely different thing. They will cool the incoming air to -150℃ first using the precooler, then they will send it to a compressor which will compress it to liquid oxygen sort of thing (not 100% pure oxygen) and then send the fuel and liquid air to burn in the combustion chamber like rocket. That will give specific impulse higher than conventional scramjet in the mach number range they are targeting (mach 8 to mach 10), basically a rocket engine without onboard liquid oxygen. That's where they will make the difference. If we want to go for a low mach range (upto mach 6) then it is ok to have scramjet, but if we target mach number higher than that it will be better to go for that kind of engine

SABRE is a kind of Airbreathing Rocket. In which ISRO had knowledge. In the attached document VASCO scientist saying about that . In orginal SABRE engine which is a concept of reactions engines limited UK two technologies combined together Precooled Jetengine and a closed cycle Rocket Engine.

In the second Doc former CmD of BDL talking about ABR engine. China doesn't have a very reliable Jetengine only recently they have sime what succeeded in Jetengine , and it's almost impossible to make that Jetengine into a precooled Jetengine in a short span of time. In ISRO thread me and others posted about SSTO and TSTO concepts of ISRO which are very similar to SABRE , Jetengine DMRJ combined together to make a space plane first TD expected to be in 2030 . Kaveri Engine will be a success in this decade ( hope so) so we are not that much behind in SSTO technologies.