DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[FalconSlayers]

BEL annual report.

BEL has introduced a new panoramic NVD for aviation.
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Quantum cryptography, photonics radars & ESMs, High power lasers, LiDARs, 5G comms. MoD has recently started funding 5G comms & Quantum cryptigraphy. Lasers have recieved funding for a decade now. Photonics is a new addition.
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a new multi function fire control radar is being made for the VL-SRSAM.
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a new DIRCM is in the making:
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Must be this one shared by @Aditya Ballal as BEL is a manufacturing agency only, so…

 

[AMCA]

 

[Dessert Storm]

Don't have confirmed info but the Swarm Drone order to NewSpace is a mix of Rotary Wing and Fixed Wing. At the time of army display, the fixed wings were under testing. Further, even the rotaries are of different varieties and configurations. Would b great if somebody could confirm.

 

[ezsasa]

Don't have confirmed info but the Swarm Drone order to NewSpace is a mix of Rotary Wing and Fixed Wing. At the time of army display, the fixed wings were under testing. Further, even the rotaries are of different varieties and configurations. Would b great if somebody could confirm.

conceptually in swarm drones tech, shape and form of drones is secondary compared to ability of the AI software to handle the theatre. as long as AI is able to ensure secure communication & co-ordination between various hardware in play, type of drones that can be plugged into the theatre becomes secondary.

with a stable tested AI in place, people can keep creating more and more drones in various shape and form.

for me the next thing to watch out for is the domestic manufacturing of drone components like rotors, motors, comm. components & structural materials.

 

[ezsasa]

Ya'll Nibbiars Alreday happening the subsystem being manufactured in India.

any companies in particular?

 

[Haldilal]

any companies in particular?

Ya'll Nibbiars Tonbo Imaging, Paras Aerospace, Robu, Cron Systems, Indodrones.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars our IT Firm's are short shighted and Jahil The Drones software and communications systems development could result in billion dollars industry's alone but only start up firms are doing It's. Baki to Anti India ke theka Infosys ne liye hai na.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Ya'll Nibbiars our IT Firm's are short shighted and Jahil The Drones software and communications systems development could result in billion dollars industry's alone but only start up firms are doing It's. Baki to Anti India ke theka Infosys ne liye hai na.

IT Firms are not short-sighted nibba, a country's industry prospers according to its demand. Businesses will open up where there is money to make.

Today if my startup creates a swarm/kamikaze drone, chances are less than 1% I will be able to sell it. The same goes for guns, howitzers, armoured vehicles and more.
Only recently (like last 1-2 years) we are seeing more and more Make in India orders, before that orders went to either foreign vendors or PSUs, which will gobble-up all the money and deliver a substandard product.

No one wants to do a losing business.

 

[Haldilal]

IT Firms are not short-sighted nibba, a country's industry prospers according to its demand. Businesses will open up where there is money to make.

Today if my startup creates a swarm/kamikaze drone, chances are less than 1% I will be able to sell it. The same goes for guns, howitzers, armoured vehicles and more.
Only recently (like last 1-2 years) we are seeing more and more Make in India orders, before that orders went to either foreign vendors or PSUs, which will gobble-up all the money and deliver a substandard product.

No one wants to do a losing business.

Ya'll Nibbiars This clear case of large business Ingoring new business development not just profit or loss. It's well knew that the Indian IT sector is a collie job and expect few firms like TCS, Wipro most spend not that much on R & D European IT Firm's have alreday invested heavily in the Drones software development and Communion Infrastructure. Not just that but in also new emerging new fields. You just don't spend R & D on Profit or Loss but on potentials.

 

[Dessert Storm]

conceptually in swarm drones tech, shape and form of drones is secondary compared to ability of the AI software to handle the theatre.

Absolutely

If you think that demo was for Cheap Kamikaze Drones, you would be missing the point. It actually was a demo of the AI which can control/command/manage 'n' number of drones. The drones themselves can be low/high tech. You needs exponentially more funds to do the same demo with not so cheap drones.
Agree to the concerns you put out there. DEW both portable n not so portable would be the answer. India's getting pretty good at both DEW and Sensor/Detection tech. If I remember correctly, 12 of portable ones (not man portable) have been or are in the process of being deployed in some border areas.

for me the next thing to watch out for is the domestic manufacturing of drone components like rotors, motors, comm. components & structural materials.

That said, using a variety of drones increases the complexity, compared to a programme controlling a single variety. I therefore, was actually pointing to what you said in better words "stable AI". It therefore follows that the brain of the Swarm would be stable(a huge achievement), for the army to place an order for 100 drones of various varieties to be used in various mixes.
Repeating.....any confirmation of the combination ordered for the Swarm.

 

[ezsasa]

[

Absolutely




That said, using a variety of drones increases the complexity, compared to a programme controlling a single variety. I therefore, was actually pointing to what you said in better words "stable AI". It therefore follows that the brain of the Swarm would be stable(a huge achievement), for the army to place an order for 100 drones of various varieties to be used in various mixes.
Repeating.....any confirmation of the combination ordered for the Swarm.

for finding out drone combinations will have to keep an eye on OTPP list that IA publishes once every year. OTPP is basically annual procurement plan for their annual consumables. maybe we will get to see drones or spares from next year or year after.

this is of course if IA does not give out any news information by themselves.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

@Haldilal BHEL?

 

[fire starter]

Army, Navy, IAF sign deals for swarm, kamikaze drones amid govt push for new tech warfare.

Army, Navy, IAF sign deals for swarm, kamikaze drones amid govt push for new tech warfare

Leading the Services on new contracts signed is the Army which has inked three separate deals for various types of drones.

theprint.in

 

[mist_consecutive]

Ya'll Nibbiars This clear case of large business Ingoring new business development not just profit or loss. It's well knew that the Indian IT sector is a collie job and expect few firms like TCS, Wipro most spend not that much on R & D European IT Firm's have alreday invested heavily in the Drones software development and Communion Infrastructure. Not just that but in also new emerging new fields. You just don't spend R & D on Profit or Loss but on potentials.

The startup & business ecosystem is more complex than you are making here to be. We misunderstand a lot of things when it comes to that.

First, few things about so-called Indian tech giants TCS and Wipro -

• Their business is a consultancy, that is they take contract work from other businesses and agencies and complete them. For example, if govt. says they want a website/software built, they reach these consultancy companies and award the contract to the lowest bidder.
• There is little to no innovation in these companies, because it is not required, they are not required to invent something, only do things that are already created with efficiency.
• These companies hire subpar quality talent in mass and underpay and overwork them to make a profit on their products, as the competition is who can make the product cheaper and faster.

The last point is the most important because essentially that's what makes these companies "coolies" of bigger organizations.

Now, coming to the "defense" technologies.

• Most cutting-edge research in military technology is kept closely guarded by each country, and almost never outsourced.
• There is a push from govt. of American and European countries to develop new technologies and cultivate the military ecosystem. They are making and developing these technologies since WW2 and now they have become experts in their own domains.

Now, coming to the Indian tech sector,

• It is a pretty young industry. Like tech boom happened in last ~20 years only.
• Since there was no incentive offered by the Indian govt. for the military-industrial complex, no company bothered. Also, no other country will develop their military technology in another country so R&D on a lost cause is just a bad investment.
• Few startups trying to break the import lobby trend emerged (Tonbo, MKU for example) but again they found more success overseas than in India.

Now coming back to your question, yes R&D is done on the potential of profit in the future. Tata won't put money in the R&D of, let's say genetically modified humans and cyborgs because although it might be future tech, it won't be adapted in the next 50 years.

 

[Haldilal]

The startup & business ecosystem is more complex than you are making here to be. We misunderstand a lot of things when it comes to that.

First, few things about so-called Indian tech giants TCS and Wipro -

• Their business is a consultancy, that is they take contract work from other businesses and agencies and complete them. For example, if govt. says they want a website/software built, they reach these consultancy companies and award the contract to the lowest bidder.
• There is little to no innovation in these companies, because it is not required, they are not required to invent something, only do things that are already created with efficiency.
• These companies hire subpar quality talent in mass and underpay and overwork them to make a profit on their products, as the competition is who can make the product cheaper and faster.

The last point is the most important because essentially that's what makes these companies "coolies" of bigger organizations.

Now, coming to the "defense" technologies.

• Most cutting-edge research in military technology is kept closely guarded by each country, and almost never outsourced.
• There is a push from govt. of American and European countries to develop new technologies and cultivate the military ecosystem. They are making and developing these technologies since WW2 and now they have become experts in their own domains.

Now, coming to the Indian tech sector,

• It is a pretty young industry. Like tech boom happened in last ~20 years only.
• Since there was no incentive offered by the Indian govt. for the military-industrial complex, no company bothered. Also, no other country will develop their military technology in another country so R&D on a lost cause is just a bad investment.
• Few startups trying to break the import lobby trend emerged (Tonbo, MKU for example) but again they found more success overseas than in India.

Now coming back to your question, yes R&D is done on the potential of profit in the future. Tata won't put money in the R&D of, let's say genetically modified humans and cyborgs because although it might be future tech, it won't be adapted in the next 50 years.

1 . TCS and Wipro has done tremendous innovation in both the software and Infras.

2 . Can't relay always on the low costs.

3 . That not totally true. The cloud based and other emerging technologies in the IT need more experienced employees.

4 . The drone technology's in the Civil and even little extent to do little in the Safeguard.as tye technologies is still emerging and new. It more complex than as explaineds.

5 . The Indian IT sector is not young it's already 40 years old.

6 . Yes correct no inecavties has ever made. But it's not limited to the military technology but also the civilan uses.

7 . The Tonbo and MKU are the succes story only due to the constant innovations.

8 . Tatas philosophy don't only Concertate on the profits but upon others factors like potential, growth, Opportunities, Markets.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Indian giant Larsen and Toubro wins British Royal Navy design contract to develop bid for building Fleet Solid Support ships

 

[mist_consecutive]

1 . TCS and Wipro has done tremendous innovation in both the software and Infras.

2 . Can't relay always on the low costs.

3 . That not totally true. The cloud based and other emerging technologies in the IT need more experienced employees.

4 . The drone technology's in the Civil and even little extent to do little in the Safeguard.as tye technologies is still emerging and new. It more complex than as explaineds.

5 . The Indian IT sector is not young it's already 40 years old.

6 . Yes correct no inecatibes has ever made. But it's not limited to the military technology but also the civilan uses.

7 . The Tonbo and MKU are the succes story only due to the constant innovations.

Again too simplistic answers.

1 . TCS and Wipro has done tremendous innovation in both the software and Infras.

Show me! How much budget of TCS/Wipro is put into R&D?

2 . Can't relay always on the low costs.

It's the viewpoint of the L1 bidder mentality. Govt. cares more about cost than quality.

3 . That not totally true. The cloud based and other emerging technologies in the IT need more experienced employees.

I was talking about TCS and Wipro, whom we think are big companies, but they are not really a value creator in the overall Indian tech ecosystem.

There are many small and medium-sized startups in India (Swiggy, Zomato, CRED, Cure.Fit... many more), who may have extremely premium salaries to attract and retain talent in India. They are doing breakthrough innovation in their own fields.

4 . The drone technology's in the Civil and even little extent to do little in the Safeguard.as tye technologies is still emerging and new. It more complex than as explaineds.

Only very marginal market. Where is the use of drones in the civil industry? Recreation and security. Not a big market right now, may become one in the next 20-40 years.

5 . The Indian IT sector is not young it's already 40 years old.

The boom happened in last 10 years. We are around 10-15 years behind Silicon Valley Califonia.

7 . The Tonbo and MKU are the succes story only due to the constant innovations.

And constant innovation originates from profit to be made. Tonbo's & MKUs success story originated from selling to Israel and USA, if they kept their legs in India, they would have been bankrupt by now.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enough arguing. My points -

• Innovation and excellence will be found only in capitalistic environments. Where the motto is "deliver or perish".
• Blaming the Indian corporate sector for failure in innovation is childish and short-sighted. No one puts their money and sweat into nationalism for the long term, only profit. China provides lucrative incentives to their tech talents for setting up companies and retaining them in the country. That's how they save their brain drain.
• There is no incentive for innovation and excellence from PSUs and govt. agencies in their current work culture. Unless they re-frame their organization and incentive hierarchy they will remain inefficient white elephants.
• Govt. in recent years have taken correct steps in encouraging Make-in-India and should strive to keep on awarding contracts to Indigenous startups. This will motivate more people to open up businesses in the military-industrial complexes.

 

[Haldilal]

Indian giant Larsen and Toubro wins British Royal Navy design contract to develop bid for building Fleet Solid Support ships

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[Haldilal]

Again too simplistic answers.



Show me! How much budget of TCS/Wipro is put into R&D?



It's the viewpoint of the L1 bidder mentality. Govt. cares more about cost than quality.



I was talking about TCS and Wipro, whom we think are big companies, but they are not really a value creator in the overall Indian tech ecosystem.

There are many small and medium-sized startups in India (Swiggy, Zomato, CRED, Cure.Fit... many more), who may have extremely premium salaries to attract and retain talent in India. They are doing breakthrough innovation in their own fields.



Only very marginal market. Where is the use of drones in the civil industry? Recreation and security. Not a big market right now, may become one in the next 20-40 years.


The boom happened in last 10 years. We are around 10-15 years behind Silicon Valley Califonia.



And constant innovation originates from profit to be made. Tonbo's & MKUs success story originated from selling to Israel and USA, if they kept their legs in India, they would have been bankrupt by now.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enough arguing. My points -

• Innovation and excellence will be found only in capitalistic environments. Where the motto is "deliver or perish".
• Blaming the Indian corporate sector for failure in innovation is childish and short-sighted. No one puts their money and sweat into nationalism for the long term, only profit. China provides lucrative incentives to their tech talents for setting up companies and retaining them in the country. That's how they save their brain drain.
• There is no incentive for innovation and excellence from PSUs and govt. agencies in their current work culture. Unless they re-frame their organization and incentive hierarchy they will remain inefficient white elephants.
• Govt. in recent years have taken correct steps in encouraging Make-in-India and should strive to keep on awarding contracts to Indigenous startups. This will motivate more people to open up businesses in the military-industrial complexes.

Ya'll Nibbiars

1 . It's not about you and me it's about the IT sector constantly changing.

2 . And I was taking about her whole sector here.

3 . The market is growing and double digit growth and can't be informed on just the current factors.

4 . The boomed happened 30 years ago and since 20 years seeing constant double digit growth sinstinable.

5 . Tonbo still make profits in single digits and is backed by incerstors who sees potential growth and returns in the future. And why just limit the market to just India.

6 . The R & D can only be found on the basis if multiple factors not the simpleton view of profits and losses. That not how R & D works.

7 . Why not they are doing little when more can be done.

8 . And again not liked to only the military markets.

9 . It will take time but will happens.

10 . The R & D is not a simple ball park.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars