Not the same2> This reflex sight seem to be the same one mounted on the Milap/MSMC. Is this a Meprolight?
Let the private companies develop its own rifle and compete with the state run factories. It is not a complicate piece of machine whose research private companies cannot invest in.I wonder of the feasibility of tandem production from OFB and a Indian private company. After the design is fit and finished.
They dont need to. ARDE is already designing a multi cal rifle. Even a corner shot one.Let the private companies develop its own rifle and compete with the state run factories. It is not a complicate piece of machine whose research private companies cannot invest in.
No, they don't need to, and yes, they can simply take the design from ARDE, but that should not happen. The reason is that GoI has spent money on research, and these private companies should invest their own. You could argue about royalty, but private companies will take the design, make some minor tweaks, get their own patents, make money, and leave ARDE high and dry. Let them invest in their own R&D.They dont need to. ARDE is already designing a multi cal rifle. Even a corner shot one.
ARDE could give both OFB and a competent Indian private player the blueprints to manufacture for the I.M.
Yup, that's definitely a possible consequence.No, they don't need to, and yes, they can simply take the design from ARDE, but that should not happen. The reason is that GoI has spent money on research, and these private companies should invest their own. You could argue about royalty, but private companies will take the design, make some minor tweaks, get their own patents, make money, and leave ARDE high and dry. Let them invest in their own R&D.
Apropos the emboldened part, I don't know what you know, but RFI has produced record number of INSAS rifles during the Kargil War, with workers working overtime. The rifle's initial glitches were resolved, and is a good rifle now. Moreover, it is not a fashion show. As long as it does the job well, it is good.First of all If ARDE is going to give the Rifle tech / manufacturing rights to the Private Sector then they are going to sell it for the highest bidder, and also Royalty to the ARDE/DRDO which is a add on Income, if not it will become another coal gate or 2G scam. So ARDE will be watchful..... the private company who bought it will not just manufacture it but will also develop it which gives the Country a Leapfrog in the Gun Manufacturing industry and we all know how despicable the OFB's manufacturing quality was and the delivery schedule they adhered to.Having said that the The OFB has been the Lone Ranger in the Indian Arms Industry and had a monopoly in the market if at all there is any advanced gun that is entering the Indian Army It will be through collaboration with OFB example the current foreign tender after all they are simply going to manufacture it and learn nothing from it and not going to absorb any tech from it. Not just that they will not improve it due to the licensing Clause. This i am saying seeing the previous projects. the INSAS project started in the 1990's and the manufacture of the guns continues till today please gauge how much improvement was there from the day they started manufacturing the gun to the current Insas B1 (latest version) and how much did the OFB invest in the R&D to be honest I don't think they have any Credible R&D at the OFB please don't Say Kalantak was done by OFB . see the technology went in to it. Given the RED tape in the GOVT If we consider that the Govt had their hands tied up be it in Artillery project or INSAS. I do understand that they need Govt's permission to start any new project. but the Private sector can be little efficient in that in starting new projects and reduce the Red Tape. Selling the Tech to Private sector is a Thought that we all should welcome
Regarding the point highlighted in REDApropos the emboldened part, I don't know what you know, but RFI has produced record number of INSAS rifles during the Kargil War, with workers working overtime. The rifle's initial glitches were resolved, and is a good rifle now. Moreover, it is not a fashion show. As long as it does the job well, it is good.
Apropos the underlined part, yes, Kalantak was an innovation by OFB, and OFB holds a patent for the PDE. Do some research before writing whatever that comes in your mind. DFI has enough resources on INSAS. Do some reading up.
Regarding the rest of your post, private companies can develop their own designs. It is not rocket science. They cannot be served everything on a platter. Private companies have a tendency to focus on profit, not quality. By quality, I don't mean a cool looking gun, but a reliable and accurate gun. In doing so, they outsource part of the work, and thus, the resultant quality is bad. Moreover, small arms from private companies has a downside. There is a risk of them selling rifles clandestinely. Even Tata Tea was found giving money to the ULFA. Private companies can be corrupt, and we don't want small arms in large numbers with the people, without proper registration.
Let the private firms invest in larger defense systems. As of now, most of the high-tech innovation comes from government owned companies, and private companies innovate almost nothing, and go for partnerships. They will have to learn, and the best way to do this is not to get everything served in a platter. We don't need private copying firms, we need private innovative firms.
made by same company and have same agent in India, who also claim to be making these in India.Not the same
MSMC uses a MARS sight.
That one is Raptor.
I am not contending that it is a "big achievement." I am contending what you wrote (emboldened and in red, in your previous post). Read it again.Regarding the point highlighted in RED
they did remove the Glitch in the INSAS and do you think that is a big achievement it is a achievement but for a company which is there for a long time at lease it should remove the glitch, if not then what is the point in calling itself an industry.
Ok, so they produced more than the daily capacity. So you admit you were wrong about "delivery schedule." Again, read what you wrote.yes during war even the private companies will do it in peace time is what matters. I did See the documentary about the war time manufacturing spear of the OFB during KARGIL its mostly the Employees patriotism and dedication during the war than effective management. I did read and and did my research and i wish you understand what you read and not just read.
I am not contending whether it is "enough" or not. I am contending your statement, that is underlined. Read it again. You said "please don't Say Kalantak was done by OFB," and now you are admitting you were wrong, by giving credit. So, thank you.Regarding the point highlighted in ORANGE
Yes its a innovation but i never discredited it but that is not enough for today todays' technology requirement kalantak is not enough.
I said private companies in India make almost no scientific innovation in India. I wasn't talking about the US, so no, you are not going by my logic.Regarding the point highlighted in BLUE.
private companies do look to make profit and that's where Army's RFP and RFI and the enforcing agencies comes into picture. if we go by your logic the US defense industry should rank worst in Quality however the private Players made it more better in terms of quality and the whole world knows about it.
I am not into mind reading. I don't know what your intent is. I only know what you have written.If you cant understand my intent in this reply then there is no point discussing with you.
Remember only when there is a competition there will be a better pricing and products.
Ok, and? What is your point? I said let the private companies invest in R&D and come up with their own designs and compete with the government run companies. Why should ARDE hand over its design to private companies? If private companies are so good, why do they need inputs from ARDE? Let them design a rifle and compete in the Army trials. Very simple, isn't it?take for Example the Indian Automotive Industry of the 1980 and the 1990 and compare it with 2000 and 2014 tell me how many models of cars were there then and how many are there now it all happened after the country opened its market to the private companies and who benefits from it, its the customers. in the above case who will benefit from privatization the customers in this case the ARMY and The Republic of INDIA
First of all If ARDE is going to give the Rifle tech / manufacturing rights to the Private Sector then they are going to sell it for the highest bidder, and also Royalty to the ARDE/DRDO which is a add on Income, if not it will become another coal gate or 2G scam. So ARDE will be watchful..... the private company who bought it will not just manufacture it but will also develop it which gives the Country a Leapfrog in the Gun Manufacturing industry and we all know how despicable the OFB's manufacturing quality was and the delivery schedule they adhered to.Having said that the The OFB has been the Lone Ranger in the Indian Arms Industry and had a monopoly in the market if at all there is any advanced gun that is entering the Indian Army It will be through collaboration with OFB example the current foreign tender after all they are simply going to manufacture it and learn nothing from it and not going to absorb any tech from it. Not just that they will not improve it due to the licensing Clause. This i am saying seeing the previous projects. the INSAS project started in the 1990's and the manufacture of the guns continues till today please gauge how much improvement was there from the day they started manufacturing the gun to the current Insas B1 (latest version) and how much did the OFB invest in the R&D to be honest I don't think they have any Credible R&D at the OFB please don't Say Kalantak was done by OFB . see the technology went in to it. Given the RED tape in the GOVT If we consider that the Govt had their hands tied up be it in Artillery project or INSAS. I do understand that they need Govt's permission to start any new project. but the Private sector can be little efficient in that in starting new projects and reduce the Red Tape. Selling the Tech to Private sector is a Thought that we all should welcome
Delivery Schedule seriously you want me to give the examples of the number of projects where the Defense PSU came under criticism from the Army Navy and Air force its not a problem just with OFB its a problem with the entire Defense PSU. there is Ammunition shortage for 5.56 Insas and tank ammunition for exampleI am not contending that it is a "big achievement." I am contending what you wrote (emboldened and in red, in your previous post). Read it again.
Ok, so they produced more than the daily capacity. So you admit you were wrong about "delivery schedule." Again, read what you wrote.
I am not contending whether it is "enough" or not. I am contending your statement, that is underlined. Read it again. You said "please don't Say Kalantak was done by OFB," and now you are admitting you were wrong, by giving credit. So, thank you.
I am not into mind reading. I don't know what your intent is. I only know what you have written.
Ok, and? What is your point? I said let the private companies invest in R&D and come up with their own designs and compete with the government run companies. Why should ARDE hand over its design to private companies? If private companies are so good, why do they need inputs from ARDE? Let them design a rifle and compete in the Army trials. Very simple, isn't it?
Particularly in Defense the Orders are always the Government atlease if we consider India so its the Govt who should encourage the companies and give projects for them they should not go for high tech projects directly instead start with small ones.I said private companies in India make almost no scientific innovation in India. I wasn't talking about the US, so no, you are not going by my logic.
Factually correct, but pertaining to INSAS, not quite.Delivery Schedule seriously you want me to give the examples of the number of projects where the Defense PSU came under criticism from the Army Navy and Air force its not a problem just with OFB its a problem with the entire Defense PSU. there is Ammunition shortage for 5.56 Insas and tank ammunition for example
CAG slams ordnance factories for slippages
CAG slams OFB for slippages in providing equipment to armed forces - Economic Times
I still think your original statement was a wrong statement about Kalantak, and we can agree to disagree on this point.No I am not Wrong you understood it wrong I meant was Kalantak with the experience they have with INSAS they should have done more and its not enough. so don't take credit for the same. This Achievement is similar to a Guy who has a Phd in nuclear physics But teaching in primary school.
Correct, and I agree, private companies should be encouraged into defense innovation and manufacturing,Particularly in Defense the Orders are always the Government atlease if we consider India so its the Govt who should encourage the companies and give projects for them they should not go for high tech projects directly instead start with small ones.
the private players will invest in the R&D only if they see profit and future order at sight and they will not invest in R&D just like that so its the Govt who should encourage the Private Sector that's my point