DRDO Multical Rifle Unveiled

[Chinmoy]

Shshssss! So drdo/ARDE/ofb needs to develop 6.5mm/6.8mm chambered AAR OR a new rifle in quick time.

Good news for you. MCIWS is chambered to fire 6.8 Remington round along with 5.56 NATO and 7.62 AK round.

 

[ezsasa]

Good news for you. MCIWS is chambered to fire 6.8 Remington round along with 5.56 NATO and 7.62 AK round.

IA has cancelled the RFP for multi-cal in 2015. That would probably mean MCIWS is dead.

Unless ARDE wants to continue with R&D fully knowing that IA is not going to adopt the weapon. Highly unlikely.

 

[Chinmoy]

IA has cancelled the RFP for multi-cal in 2015. That would probably mean MCIWS is dead.

Unless ARDE wants to continue with R&D fully knowing that IA is not going to adopt the weapon. Highly unlikely.

Doesn't matter. I replied to what @Kchontha had suggested, to develop a weapon to fire 6.8mm Remington round. So with MCIWS been already developed and gone through trial, OFB had been a step ahead in this field atleast. So if any new RFI does come out for 6.8mm round, we are already prepared.

 

[Kchontha]

Doesn't matter. I replied to what @Kchontha had suggested, to develop a weapon to fire 6.8mm Remington round. So with MCIWS been already developed and gone through trial, OFB had been a step ahead in this field atleast. So if any new RFI does come out for 6.8mm round, we are already prepared.

VMT for your comment @Chinmoy. MCIWS/AAR was developed as a multicalibar rifle capable of firing 5.56, 6.8 and ak round but not as a single calibar rifle as insas 1b1/mk1c or the new OFB 7.62 rifle. Therefore ofb need to develop a newnsingle calibet rifle that can fire 6.8mm Rimington or 6.5 mm lapua. MCIWS/AAR could be the baseline rifle.

 

[Chinmoy]

VMT for your comment @Chinmoy. MCIWS/AAR was developed as a multicalibar rifle capable of firing 5.56, 6.8 and ak round but not as a single calibar rifle as insas 1b1/mk1c or the new OFB 7.62 rifle. Therefore ofb need to develop a newnsingle calibet rifle that can fire 6.8mm Rimington or 6.5 mm lapua. MCIWS/AAR could be the baseline rifle.

Thats the point. We do have a baseline design for 6.8 atleast unlike the 7.62 NATO. In case of AAR too, one would have to change the barrel, receiver and chamber at minimum while switching from one round to another.

 

[abingdonboy]

Doesn't matter. I replied to what @Kchontha had suggested, to develop a weapon to fire 6.8mm Remington round. So with MCIWS been already developed and gone through trial, OFB had been a step ahead in this field atleast. So if any new RFI does come out for 6.8mm round, we are already prepared.

Surely the IA's experiment with 6.8mm is over for at least another 15 years? They have ditched the idea of "multi-cal" and are going for single-calibre rifles only (7.62 NATO assualt rifles and 5.56mm carbines), they aren't going to intiate an RFI/RFP for 6.8mm rifles (not that there are many of those around). The 6.8mm hasn't exactly lived up to its hype, 5.56mm and 7.62mm remain the two calibres most widely used in assualt rifles, no major nations have switched to 6.8.


But then, this is the IA, who knows what they will do in a year's time......

 

[devhensh]

Irrespective of whether Indian Army will go for 6.8SPC or not, US and all major NATO forces will upgrade from 5.56x45 mm to an intermediate caliber. This caliber will be most probably between 6.5mm to 6.8 SPC....7.62x51mm will remain for DMR , LMG and long distance engagements...

7.62x51mm is suitable for warfare in vast open areas(mountains/plains/deserts) but is too powerful for urban combat and CQB in enclosed areas....and 5.56x45mm is too one dimensional and not powerful enough from short barrels.....Thus the need for an intermediate caliber......even 7.62x39mm is an intermediate caliber....

6.8 SPC II ...is a very versatile and powerful round. In state of Texas, it's used extensively for homedefence and hunting wild pigs and is very effective (seen first hand) ...unlike 5.56mm....I can keep on writing, but the two vedios from experts below, tell us all that is needed...

 

[devhensh]

This is to contribute to some already good posts about the LMG and it's use...

The LMG is slowly evolving into a new concept called IAR(Infantry Automatic Rifle)...It's usually the same service rifle with a heavier barrel and bipod...is not belt fed and fed by magzines....Thus is much suitable for urban combat and other today's fast and fluid combat zones....

The US Marine core has already adapted a version of HK416 with designation M27 IAR.....The two clips below speak volumes about IAR concept vs belt fed ...

 

[ezsasa]

This is to contribute to some already good posts about the LMG and it's use...

The LMG is slowly evolving into a new concept called IAR(Infantry Automatic Rifle)...It's usually the same service rifle with a heavier barrel and bipod...is not belt fed and fed by magzines....Thus is much suitable for urban combat and other today's fast and fluid combat zones....

The US Marine core has already adapted a version of HK416 with designation M27 IAR.....The two clips below speak volumes about IAR concept vs belt fed ...

If so...
for once indian defence systems are ahead of the curve....

INSAS LMG.....

 

[Johny_Baba]

This is to contribute to some already good posts about the LMG and it's use...

The LMG is slowly evolving into a new concept called IAR(Infantry Automatic Rifle)...It's usually the same service rifle with a heavier barrel and bipod...is not belt fed and fed by magzines....Thus is much suitable for urban combat and other today's fast and fluid combat zones....

The US Marine core has already adapted a version of HK416 with designation M27 IAR.....The two clips below speak volumes about IAR concept vs belt fed ...

If so...
for once indian defence systems are ahead of the curve....

INSAS LMG.....

View attachment 18852

C'mon Ezsasa,you think Americans have not done this before?

This is M16 HBAR (Heavy Barreled Automatic Rifle),forerunner of so called Infantry Automatic Rifle concept,mainly deployed as Light Machine Gun/Squad Automatic Weapon or as the name suggest,Heavy Barreled Automatic Rifle during last years of Vietnam War till 1980s where FN M249 entered to take its place in US Armed Forces with a new Designation,MINIMI.

This M27 IAR is nothing but a new variant of M16 HBAR with stronger,somewhat lighter barrel and Short Stroke Gas Piston system.

M16A1 HBAR and M16A2 HBAR

M16A3 HBAR

They even made a belt fed variant of HBAR but it had several reliability issues so they kept it limited to magazine fed variant.

 

[devhensh]

True, it has been done before.....But on a much smaller scale....
M16 HBAR was never a standard issue .....other weapon systems were always preferred for suppressive fire.....

Unlike now...when M27 is a standard issue to the entire Marine Corps(one of the best specialized Infantry fighting forces in the world)..

I am also talking about doctrine change...where magzine fed IARs are being preferred to belt fed weapons.....It's an old concept , but being adapted more widely in today's fast and fluid battle scenarios..

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

True, it has been done before.....But on a much smaller scale....
M16 HBAR was never a standard issue .....other weapon systems were always preferred for suppressive fire.....

Unlike now...when M27 is a standard issue to the entire Marine Corps(one of the best specialized Infantry fighting forces in the world)..

I am also talking about doctrine change...where magzine fed IARs are being preferred to belt fed weapons.....It's an old concept , but being adapted more widely in today's fast and fluid battle scenarios..

Is the US army adopting the IAR concept too ? Cause the Marines seem geared towards expeditionary warfare more than the Army and IAR fits in nicely with their tactics. It seems a bit too specialized for smaller armed forces.

 

[devhensh]

Also, the Colt M16 HBARS used direct gas impingement system, which i think is not as well suited for sustained auto fire as the HK 416 short stroke gas piston.....HK 416 M27 is atleast a generation or two ahead in reliability, accuracy and adaptibility.....

Is the US army adopting the IAR concept too ? Cause the Marines seem geared towards expeditionary warfare more than the Army and IAR fits in nicely with their tactics. It seems a bit too specialized for smaller armed forces.

As per me, the US Army, hasn't showed much interest in IAR concept. But just like other branches of US Forces, the Army too has replaced many of the standard issue M4 uppers with HK416 uppers, in many diffrent occasions...the M27 IAR is just a version of HK416..

https://www.defensetech.org/2007/03/26/special-forces-say-no-to-m4-barrel/

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...wly-fallen-in-love-with-hks-take-on-the-ar-15

 

[devhensh]

Quote
Is the US army adopting the IAR concept too ? Cause the Marines seem geared towards expeditionary warfare more than the Army and IAR fits in nicely with their tactics. It seems a bit too specialized for smaller armed forces
Unquote


The reason AR15 in general and HK416 in particular, is so popular is because of it's modularity...The same rifle which is being used as an IAR(with heavy long barrel and bipod) can be converted as a 14.5 inch barrel standard carbine as well as a 10.5 inch CQB gun , very quickly by end users..

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

Also, the Colt M16 HBARS used direct gas impingement system, which i think is not as well suited for sustained auto fire as the HK 416 short stroke gas piston.....HK 416 M27 is atleast a generation or two ahead in reliability, accuracy and adaptibility.....



As per me, the US Army, hasn't showed much interest in IAR concept. But just like other branches of US Forces, the Army too has replaced many of the standard issue M4 uppers with HK416 uppers, in many diffrent occasions...the M27 IAR is just a version of HK416..

https://www.defensetech.org/2007/03/26/special-forces-say-no-to-m4-barrel/

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...wly-fallen-in-love-with-hks-take-on-the-ar-15

Quote
Is the US army adopting the IAR concept too ? Cause the Marines seem geared towards expeditionary warfare more than the Army and IAR fits in nicely with their tactics. It seems a bit too specialized for smaller armed forces
Unquote


The reason AR15 in general and HK416 in particular, is so popular is because of it's modularity...The same rifle which is being used as an IAR(with heavy long barrel and bipod) can be converted as a 14.5 inch barrel standard carbine as well as a 10.5 inch CQB gun , very quickly by end users..

There's no question that the AR platform's upper-lower design lends itself to a pretty nice degree of modularity. In fact if one can devise some way of using different size magazines in the same lower,(adapters perhaps) then the whole upper can be switched out for caliber changes easily.

And about the short stroke piston of the 416, it is quite nice, but I have my doubts about reliability when it comes to extracting sticky cases from a dirty chamber or using steel cased ammo. Long stroke pistons although heavier offer sustained force until the very rear of the bolt movement. The 416 might be very reliable for the 5 star quality equipped US armed forces, but here in india where RR units have to abuse AKs until the paints wear off completely, it might not fare so well. But then again, that depends on other factors like funding, training etc.

 

[devhensh]

There's no question that the AR platform's upper-lower design lends itself to a pretty nice degree of modularity. In fact if one can devise some way of using different size magazines in the same lower,(adapters perhaps) then the whole upper can be switched out for caliber changes easily.

And about the short stroke piston of the 416, it is quite nice, but I have my doubts about reliability when it comes to extracting sticky cases from a dirty chamber or using steel cased ammo. Long stroke pistons although heavier offer sustained force until the very rear of the bolt movement. The 416 might be very reliable for the 5 star quality equipped US armed forces, but here in india where RR units have to abuse AKs until the paints wear off completely, it might not fare so well. But then again, that depends on other factors like funding, training etc.

Regarding the first point(same lower reciever for multiple calibers)...It has already been achieved in the two design below....The original receiver magwell is of 7.62x51mm magzine size and with magwell adapters, it can take diffrent magzines

http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Military/Products/Colt-Modular-Carbine-CM901

https://deserttech.com/product_overview.php?product_id=4&load=product_overview

Regarding reliability of HK 416... HK 416 (also FN SCAR) is the most heavily tested platform in the entire history....This includes extreme scenarios we can't even imagine and testing for sticky Steel cased ammo (wolf steel cased) is quite standard......so i am confident that this rifle will work in Indian conditions..... I want India to build it's own service rifle...but if Army decides to go for a Foreign design ......It should be either FN SCAR H or HK 416/417...

 

[devhensh]

In context to my post above, I believe the DRDO Multical rifle was based on AR Platform and HK416 in particular....I believe it is the most advanced rifle designed in India and proves my point that the AR / H 416 platform is the way to go..

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

Regarding the first point(same lower reciever for multiple calibers)...It has already been achieved in the two design below....The original receiver magwell is of 7.62x51mm magzine size and with magwell adapters, it can take diffrent magzines

http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Military/Products/Colt-Modular-Carbine-CM901

https://deserttech.com/product_overview.php?product_id=4&load=product_overview

Regarding reliability of HK 416... HK 416 (also FN SCAR) is the most heavily tested platform in the entire history....This includes extreme scenarios we can't even imagine and testing for sticky Steel cased ammo (wolf steel cased) is quite standard......so i am confident that this rifle will work in Indian conditions..... I want India to build it's own service rifle...but if Army decides to go for a Foreign design ......It should be either FN SCAR H or HK 416/417...

Didn't HK refuse to do business with Indian MOD and shortly after create policy of not selling to non NATO members ? And FN didn't really have a pleasant relation either. Back in the 50s they tried to sue for copying FAL, and a settlement had to be chalked out. INSAS upper is quite similar to FNC, and methinks there was a reason for not license producing it outright.

 

[devhensh]

Another topic altogather......related to politics ...

Indian government can buy anything from any country using the FMS (Foreign Military Sale) and India's relation with Germany are very good presently ....Apart from that aren't we buying our MP5 machine guns for NSG (and practically for every police force) every year from the same company !!!

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

Another topic altogather......related to politics ...

Indian government can buy anything from any country using the FMS (Foreign Military Sale) and India's relation with Germany are very good presently ....Apart from that aren't we buying our MP5 machine guns for NSG (and practically for every police force) every year from the same company !!!

Last year some info surfaced that OFB has designed a unlicensed copy of the MP5 called Anamika. TFB ran an article about it.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/06/16/of/

P.S. Don't read the comments.

News like these don't exactly paint a picture of HK being on good terms.