Does India want to become a superpower

[bose]

It takes both sides of the equation to be a Super Power, soft and hard power. One does not supersede the other. Soviets leaned more one way while US balanced the equation. Look at who is still standing.

Agreed my fear is we must not go the Soviet way, rather the way USA did to achieve the same. The USA achieved a economic boom in the 50's & 60's to support the military industrial & R&D initiatives. The Soviet suffered from bad economic strategy that brought its down fall.

 

[bose]

@bose, the Indian story is not about exports it is a consumption driven story.

Hundreds of Billions of Dollars are required for infrastructure projects in the next 15-20 years. Imagine what will it do to the GDP if this kind of spending is done.

Agreed... to achieve a higher growth India have to bump up our exports to Europe & USA as they still have very high consumption volume. To increase the consumption with in India we have to bring up large number of people to the middle class bracket.

We need at least 1 trillion dollar in the infrastructure in next 10 - 15 years, that spending will fuel economic growth and in turn definitely bring more people out of the poverty line.

My POV is economic growth to bring people to descent living standards and that in turn push higher growth for economy. The economy growth can be through spending in infrastructure, exports or internal consumption to name a few.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Agreed... to achieve a higher growth India have to bump up our exports to Europe & USA as they still have very high consumption volume. To increase the consumption with in India we have to bring up large number of people to the middle class bracket.

We need at least 1 trillion dollar in the infrastructure in next 10 - 15 years, that spending will fuel economic growth and in turn definitely bring more people out of the poverty line.

My POV is economic growth to bring people to descent living standards and that in turn push higher growth for economy. The economy growth can be through spending in infrastructure, exports or internal consumption to name a few.

A small correction: the infrastructure expenses for the current five year plan (2012-2017) have been pegged at $1 trillion.

India to spend USD 1 trillion on infrastructure in next 5 yrs - Indian Express

 

[amoy]

Timing is very important for the making of a "Super" Power. China readily seized opportunities of massive transfer of manufacturing especially from Japan and Asian tigers (S. Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore) during 1980's-1990's when their costs hiked. The waves were like US, Europe >> Japan >> Asian Tigers >> China, ASEAN

Also China had the windfall owing to collapse of Soviet Union. In addition to subsided Soviet military pressure China had access to hardwares and expertise from former Soviet republics who sold a lot at scraps prices, such as bartering airplanes, machinery and fertilizers for foods and garments.

Will India jump on the right bandwagon at a right time? Time and tide wait for no man.

 

[no smoking]

Agreed... to achieve a higher growth India have to bump up our exports to Europe & USA as they still have very high consumption volume. To increase the consumption with in India we have to bring up large number of people to the middle class bracket.

Question is how you archive that!

We need at least 1 trillion dollar in the infrastructure in next 10 - 15 years, that spending will fuel economic growth and in turn definitely bring more people out of the poverty line.

Question is where you can find this money? Private source? The past several years already proved private money doesn't have much interest in such kind of long-term project.

My POV is economic growth to bring people to descent living standards and that in turn push higher growth for economy. The economy growth can be through spending in infrastructure, exports or internal consumption to name a few.

The question is still HOW!

 

[bose]

Question is how you archive that!

Although I am not from the economics background, I believe India have to remove the red tap`ism and too much bureaucratic control that exists today in the country. Doing business should be easy in India for both Indian as well as the foreign business enterprises. There is too much control of the state and that hinders the economic growth as desired.

Question is where you can find this money? Private source? The past several years already proved private money doesn't have much interest in such kind of long-term project.

The Indian private enterprises have lot of money, it should not be a problem, we have to create a conducive environment as I have stated earlier the reason is red tap`ism and too much bureaucratic control that will not force Indian enterprise investing Indian money on foreign countries. From Government side they should put money on the infrastructure, education and health care development they will give multiple returns to economy.

One thing is very clear that Indian Entrepreneur's are one of the best in the world and are very successful all over the world. What they need is an environment that makes it easy to do business in India.

At present the Indian economy is ~ 2+ trillion figure and Indian have to find a way to pull in the un accounted money that exists within and outside the country which one say is amounts to another 2 trillion figure although debatable in many quarters. Indian have find a way to put good use of this unaccounted money for its economic growth.

The question is still HOW!

As stated by me earlier.

The only way out is faster economic growth that brings the people a descent living standard.

 

[no smoking]

Although I am not from the economics background, I believe India have to remove the red tap`ism and too much bureaucratic control that exists today in the country. Doing business should be easy in India for both Indian as well as the foreign business enterprises. There is too much control of the state and that hinders the economic growth as desired.

Not that simple! That is only one of many causes that india is facing today. And if indian gov failed to do it in past 2 decades, certainly there is some problems behind it, then you have to think deeper!

The Indian private enterprises have lot of money, it should not be a problem, we have to create a conducive environment as I have stated earlier the reason is red tap`ism and too much bureaucratic control that will not force Indian enterprise investing Indian money on foreign countries. From Government side they should put money on the infrastructure, education and health care development they will give multiple returns to economy.

The indian private enterprises are not charitable organisation, they need profit. All these sections you talk about are long term investment, there is no one going to invest unless india gov can provid guarantee of their return, which will put gov in financial shit hole--sharing risk with no return.

One thing is very clear that Indian Entrepreneur's are one of the best in the world and are very successful all over the world. What they need is an environment that makes it easy to do business in India.

At present the Indian economy is ~ 2+ trillion figure and Indian have to find a way to pull in the un accounted money that exists within and outside the country which one say is amounts to another 2 trillion figure although debatable in many quarters. Indian have find a way to put good use of this unaccounted money for its economic growth.

The only that these private money will come is that there is a hope of making more money. So the question is still how can you prove that these private entrepreneurs can make money in india?

As stated by me earlier.

The only way out is faster economic growth that brings the people a descent living standard.

Then you still need to ask youself: HOW to faster economic growth! Money is not the problem, the question is: what kind of money and how you can get them.

 

[Bangalorean]

Not that simple! That is only one of many causes that india is facing today. And if indian gov failed to do it in past 2 decades, certainly there is some problems behind it, then you have to think deeper!

The indian private enterprises are not charitable organisation, they need profit. All these sections you talk about are long term investment, there is no one going to invest unless india gov can provid guarantee of their return, which will put gov in financial shit hole--sharing risk with no return.

The only that these private money will come is that there is a hope of making more money. So the question is still how can you prove that these private entrepreneurs can make money in india?

Then you still need to ask youself: HOW to faster economic growth! Money is not the problem, the question is: what kind of money and how you can get them.

I don't know why you are asking stupid questions again and again in spite of knowing/having been informed the answers more than once. You are just going round and round, I have no idea what point you are trying to prove here.

What do you mean "Indian government failed to do it in past 2 decades"? Chinese government failed to do anything constructive in 3 decades, from 1949 to 1979. So what does that show? Indian government failed to so much in 4.5 decades, from 47 to 91. So what does that show?

All we need to do is conduct economic reforms, everything else will fall in place. Private industry has rushed to set up shop in India over the last 20 years - the only issue is that only certain types of industry have come up such as knowledge industry, IT, automobiles, construction, etc. These industries came up because of certain economic reforms. Further economic reforms will bring more industries surging in.

You are unnecessarily asking the same questions to which the answers are straightforward and have been provided multiple times. Please desist from unnecessary questions.

 

[Jagdish]

First we have to clear the mess on insurgency in kashmir , stop terrorist attacks , kill rogues like dawood, hafeez saeed covertly , run over the Maoist strong hold , and more important thing hang corrupt politicians or send them to Andaman jail permanently
One more important thing is to come out of USA clutches & fear of sanction, after that we can dream about becoming superpower

 

[no smoking]

I don't know why you are asking stupid questions again and again in spite of knowing/having been informed the answers more than once. You are just going round and round, I have no idea what point you are trying to prove here.

My point here is that you didn't provide any road map for your idea.
For example, you suggest to bring private fund into infrastructure building. This is only an idea, or a partial answer at the best, the real answer is how you make them interested in your infrasture: provide national guarantee? Give fully control of the infrasture they build? or Issuing gov bond with attractive interest rate which is specific for infrastructure?

What do you mean "Indian government failed to do it in past 2 decades"? Chinese government failed to do anything constructive in 3 decades, from 1949 to 1979. So what does that show?

That shows you know nothing about China's development during this period. I believe you know cultural revolution and great leap!

Indian government failed to so much in 4.5 decades, from 47 to 91. So what does that show?

This shows that India gov far better than you! They rethink their stratetgy and set new pratical plan while you just repeat your hollow idea.

All we need to do is conduct economic reforms, everything else will fall in place. Private industry has rushed to set up shop in India over the last 20 years - the only issue is that only certain types of industry have come up such as knowledge industry, IT, automobiles, construction, etc. These industries came up because of certain economic reforms. Further economic reforms will bring more industries surging in.

Can you specify what economic reforms in which sectors you have in your mind! For example, labour law is a good start.

You are unnecessarily asking the same questions to which the answers are straightforward and have been provided multiple times. Please desist from unnecessary questions.

You didn't give any ansower. All you have is the target which no one objects.

 

[badguy2000]

I don't know why you are asking stupid questions again and again in spite of knowing/having been informed the answers more than once. You are just going round and round, I have no idea what point you are trying to prove here.

What do you mean "Indian government failed to do it in past 2 decades"? Chinese government failed to do anything constructive in 3 decades, from 1949 to 1979. So what does that show? Indian government failed to so much in 4.5 decades, from 47 to 91. So what does that show?

All we need to do is conduct economic reforms, everything else will fall in place. Private industry has rushed to set up shop in India over the last 20 years - the only issue is that only certain types of industry have come up such as knowledge industry, IT, automobiles, construction, etc. These industries came up because of certain economic reforms. Further economic reforms will bring more industries surging in.

You are unnecessarily asking the same questions to which the answers are straightforward and have been provided multiple times. Please desist from unnecessary questions.

not all reforms can faster economy growth.....in fact, some reforms can better situations ,such as Deng Xiaopin's one,but the others just worsen situation,such as Mikhail gorbachev''s and Yeltson's ones.


BTW, as a whole, Chinese government didn't fail during 1949-1979....It sucessful built a complete industry chains ,however outdated the industry chains were,
In 1949, CHina could not manufacture any tank, gunboat, truck,jets and tractor and big cannon.90% of its population were illterated. It had only 15K KM long railway.
In 1979, CHIna could already manufacture tanks,DDG,jets,trackors,big cannons...it even could manufacture nuke subs,satellites and ICBMs. its literacy rate was 90% already. it had 50K+ KM railways in 1979.

 

[bose]

not all reforms can faster economy growth.....in fact, some reforms can better situations ,such as Deng Xiaopin's one,but the others just worsen situation,such as Mikhail gorbachev''s and Yeltson's ones.


BTW, as a whole, Chinese government didn't fail during 1949-1979....It sucessful built a complete industry chains ,however outdated the industry chains were,
In 1949, CHina could not manufacture any tank, gunboat, truck,jets and tractor and big cannon.90% of its population were illterated. It had only 15K KM long railway.
In 1979, CHIna could already manufacture tanks,DDG,jets,trackors,big cannons...it even could manufacture nuke subs,satellites and ICBMs. its literacy rate was 90% already. it had 50K+ KM railways in 1979.

You should thank the generous help you got from Soviets in 50's to build the basic infrastructure for big industries & military complexes...

Then in 80's the help you got to setup of the manufacturing units by Capitalist Japan, USA & Europe...

 

[CCTV]

You should thank the generous help you got from Soviets in 50's to build the basic infrastructure for big industries & military complexes...

Then in 80's the help you got to setup of the manufacturing units by Capitalist Japan, USA & Europe...

Soviet, Japan, USA, Europe are all in India's side. They should help India instead of help China, right?

 

[badguy2000]

You should thank the generous help you got from Soviets in 50's to build the basic infrastructure for big industries & military complexes...

Then in 80's the help you got to setup of the manufacturing units by Capitalist Japan, USA & Europe...

well, we thanks a lot for Soviet's help....its help during 1950s indeed set up the initial base of CHina's industrializaiton
however. we has repaid Soviet's with the blood of CHInese soldiers deade and injured during Korea war.

Morever, what is most impotant to CHina's rapid industrialziaiton is not helps from foreign countries, but the hard work of CHinese people and right lead of CHInese government.

India in fact has received more forein aids after 1947 than CHina after 1949....however, due to the aimless rule and redism of Indian government and flaw democracic system, India failed to make full use of those aid...

 

[bose]

Soviet, Japan, USA, Europe are all in India's side. They should help India instead of help China, right?

We do not want help from any one... We Indians would like to earn it the hard way even if it takes time...

 

[badguy2000]

Unless India better its government rule and efficiency, free aid won't help India much....

Even CHina were to gift 3 trillion USD to India,most of those 3 trillion USD aid would just fall into the pocket of Indian officers and would not chang India much.

 

[CCTV]

We do not want help from any one... We Indians would like to earn it the hard way even if it takes time...

Do you mean India refuse all helps from outside? That is new to me.

PS. I like your denial style.

 

[bose]

Morever, what is most impotant to CHina's rapid industrialziaiton is not helps from foreign countries, but the hard work of CHinese people and right lead of CHInese government.

Good for you... no one doubts the capability of any hard working class... but the fact is you got massive help from Soviets at right time, without which it would have been very difficult for China to mordernize... so massive help at right time what is important...

India in fact has received more forein aids after 1947 than CHina after 1949....however, due to the aimless rule and redism of Indian government and flaw democracic system, India failed to make full use of those aid...

I do not think you have the bandwidth / capability to judge Indian success or failure story... India works in a different model not the way China works... so do not compare India with China...

The Democratic system India has adopted is best suited for her... there is no other way out... likes of a Chinese totalarian system would have broken the India apart into many smaller pieces... Each has a merits & demerits it its own way"¦

India is on right track there are impediments such as corruptions & red tapesism similar to you have in China, we will work it out our own way best suited for India.

On the bolded part, let me remind you of an real world instance... In 1974 when India tested the nukes, USA stopped the foodgrains that it used to give to India [As in those days we are dependent on the USA's food grain support]... India replied with that of a green revolution for every one to see...

 

[bose]

Do you mean India refuse all helps from outside? That is new to me.

PS. I like your denial style.

I did not say that we had refused halp from otheres in past... What I meant that we are not open for any help that comes with a string or conditions...

India NOW should start thinking beyond taking help from others... It should try to help it self with better governance...

 

[CCTV]

Good for you... no one doubts the capability of any hard working class... but the fact is you got massive help from Soviets at right time, without which it would have been very difficult for China to mordernize... so massive help at right time what is important...



I do not think you have the bandwidth / capability to judge Indian success or failure story... India works in a different model not the way China works... so do not compare India with China...

The Democratic system India has adopted is best suited for her... there is no other way out... likes of a Chinese totalarian system would have broken the India apart into many smaller pieces... Each has a merits & demerits it its own way"¦

India is on right track there are impediments such as corruptions & red tapesism similar to you have in China, we will work it out our own way best suited for India.

On the bolded part, let me remind you of an real world instance... In 1974 when India tested the nukes, USA stopped the foodgrains that it used to give to India [As in those days we are dependent on the USA's food grain support]... India replied with that of a green revolution for every one to see...

Why Soviet give the massive help to China, but not to India? you refused it?
Does Soviet add conditions to the help to India, but not to China?

After 1960, Soviet become one of China's enemy. For a long time we have to face threats from two super powers. No tech, trade ,food and resources can going to China for long time( like the Iran or NK today)