Dhanush the Indian Bofors

[Craigs]

And why should we take his claims at face value?

He owns one of the world's biggest forging companies selling even to the Germans that is why.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Sir kis showcase mein rakhenge? Use to hona nahin hai.

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[HariPrasad-1]

Its not about churning out guns, its amount the speed of induction. Baba Kalyani could churn out 30 guns per month, but what would be the induction speed of IA? Every gun would have to go through extensive firing trials among with other tests before induction. What if any gun fail in one of the test? Would Baba Kalyani recall the whole batch then?

At 1.5 gun per month, at least the makers would be able to keep QA intact till induction.

The question is whether OF is able to supply as much gun as IA can deploy? certainly not. At least 4 to 5 guns should supply a month till the order of 114 is complete.

Each and every gun need not go through extensive trial like guns in trial. I think you should advice this to IAF chief B S Dhanoa who slammed HAL for not supplying TEJAS and delays it. You can convince him with your logic.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Think of it another way... Right now, due to Khangress govt not buying any arty, Pak Army's firepower at LOC almost matches ours. That's why artillery-duels don't crush them at the border & we may end up taking more casualties.

Few years from now, they will be as far behind as their Air Force (once at par) is behind ours!

These guns should come in numbers and atleast all these 114 guns should be supplied in a year and half. Take a case of Tejas. Had it came in 2010 or twelve and we would have been operating 4 to 5 Squadrons today, how useful it would have been in case of Possible conflict with Pakistan. We delay in developing our vital defense equipment and often ends up emergency purchase situation.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Do you know that Baba Kalyani developed field gun's lighter version in less than a year. Indian 115 mm field gun weighs 4.1 ton. Baba Kalyani gun "Garuda" weighs less than 1 ton. Their 155 mm gun made world record by firing 155 mm shell to a distance of over 46 km.

read somewhere.... maybe here, it was TATA gun that broke the record. Can you provide source of Kalyani gun breaking the record.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

read somewhere.... maybe here it was TATA gun that broke the record can you provide source of Kalyani gun breaking the record.

Baba kalyani gun broke the record of TATA gun in just one week. Please google it.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Baba kalyani gun broke the record of TATA gun in just one week. Please google it.

So like our record was broken by ours you are saying that I think.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

So like our record was broken by ours you are saying that I think.

https://defenceaviationpost.com/mak...king-world-record-firing-48-km-range-pokhran/

 

[Chinmoy]

The question is whether OF is able to supply as much gun as IA can deploy? certainly not. At least 4 to 5 guns should supply a month till the order of 114 is complete.

Each and every gun need not go through extensive trial like guns in trial. I think you should advice this to IAF chief B S Dhanoa who slammed HAL for not supplying TEJAS and delays it. You can convince him with your logic.

Actually the initial batch of 18 guns would be delivered in one year. The total order of 114 would be delivered in 3 years time. Which brings the rate of delivery to 4 guns per month as you mentioned for the rest 96.

Another question for you.... Even if Bharat Forge churn out 30 guns a month, would IA accept and induct them all at one go?
And my earlier point still stands. If any issue is found in any of the gun during induction, would Bharat Forge just pull back the whole lot and manufacture all again? Would it be economically viable for them?

Making a statement is one thing, but working it out practically is another. Even if Baba Kalyani is able to churn out 30 guns per month, he would not do it in practical purpose.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Actually the initial batch of 18 guns would be delivered in one year. The total order of 114 would be delivered in 3 years time. Which brings the rate of delivery to 4 guns per month as you mentioned for the rest 96.

Another question for you.... Even if Bharat Forge churn out 30 guns a month, would IA accept and induct them all at one go?
And my earlier point still stands. If any issue is found in any of the gun during induction, would Bharat Forge just pull back the whole lot and manufacture all again? Would it be economically viable for them?

Making a statement is one thing, but working it out practically is another. Even if Baba Kalyani is able to churn out 30 guns per month, he would not do it in practical purpose.

What they have said is ability to supply and not necessarily government should accept all gun in one lot. Government can ask them to supply 4 guns per month initially and subsequently increase the production and supply all guns in 2 years rather than 4 years. 18 per month is a BS rate and straight compromise with National security like what HAL does. They are unable to supply planes in time which has caused serious concern for national security.

 

[Chinmoy]

What they have said is ability to supply and not necessarily government should accept all gun in one lot. Government can ask them to supply 4 guns per month initially and subsequently increase the production and supply all guns in 2 years rather than 4 years. 18 per month is a BS rate and straight compromise with National security like what HAL does. They are unable to supply planes in time which has caused serious concern for national security.

Bhai.... Pehle pura padh liya karo.

18 gun per year for initial batch out of which 6 would be delivered for initial induction. Means in next 12 months there would be delivery of 1 gun per month and after that 4 guns per month for next 24 months.

Even BAE and Mahindra is giving the same rate of supply for M777.

 

[Craigs]

To people who are unnecessarily getting riled up on Baba Kalyani's statement. Just drink some cold water and calm down. He runs a global conglomerate not a tin-patri OFB workshop. All he said was he could supply one gun every other day. He did not mention that he will only sell to IA. I am sure once IA accepts his product he will market the gun internationally (he already has the export license). That statement was as much to his investors and shareholders as it was to the morons (aka def journalists) who asked him about it.

 

[Immanuel]

Bhai.... Pehle pura padh liya karo.

18 gun per year for initial batch out of which 6 would be delivered for initial induction. Means in next 12 months there would be delivery of 1 gun per month and after that 4 guns per month for next 24 months.

Even BAE and Mahindra is giving the same rate of supply for M777.

Delivery rate is a function of how many orders, Govts. ability to realize timely payments post delivery. We can dream of high delivery rates only if we have mass bulk order, ideally 300 per block batch, orders of atleast 900+(with minor improvement with each block) + allocating enough funds each year to payout deliveries.

At the moment while a small increase is nice, we still need a grand increase in % per GDP to have first bigger order sizes and second to pay on time.

Industry will be more than happy to deliver 100+ per year if long term orders exist.

 

[Craigs]

Sir kis showcase mein rakhenge? Use to hona nahin hai.

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Thoda India ka showcase me rakhege aur thoda videshi deshon ka. Lekin paise to banega na? Aur employment bhi badega na?

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Thoda India ka showcase me rakhege aur thoda videshi deshon ka. Lekin paise to banega na? Aur employment bhi badega na?

Chalo thik hai. Yehi sahi.

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[Pandeyji]

He owns one of the world's biggest forging companies selling even to the Germans that is why.

And Zuckerberg promised that he would not steal user data. He was also running one of the world's biggest company. Elon Musk has repeatedly promised that Teslq production would stabilise & the cars would reach end user on time. So I repeat my question with some editing for more clarity

And why should we take his (i.e. Baba Kalyani's) claims at face value? Do you have any figures to show that any of his plants have achieved such high outputs? Does any verified data of Bharat Forge's production capabilities indicate that this is possible?

 

[Craigs]

And Zuckerberg promised that he would not steal user data. He was also running one of the world's biggest company. Elon Musk has repeatedly promised that Teslq production would stabilise & the cars would reach end user on time. So I repeat my question with some editing for more clarity

Bharat Forge has been around a lot longer than Fuckerberg and Felon Musk(420 - funding secured) and enjoys a much better reputation than either of them.

Still prove to me that facebook promised it won't steal user data. Did you read their EULA before creating an account? - https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/21/facebook-terms-condition_n_5551965.html. They did not steal anything, you willingly gave it to them for free to use as they like, so FU.

Also, where I am I see many happy Tesla users and no real bad reviews though orders for its lowest priced cars are falling off as the gas price dropped which means they are not going to be producing as many. I still remember the day Musk promised an electric sedan - nobody literally nobody believed him until he unveiled the Tesla S and to this day there is no competition period but he had to announce it to excite his shareholders and investors as they are the ones that trust him with their money and they are not complaining.

 

[Pandeyji]

Bharat Forge has been around a lot longer than Fuckerberg and Felon Musk(420 - funding secured) and enjoys a much better reputation than either of them.

Still prove to me that facebook promised it won't steal user data. Did you read their EULA before creating an account? - https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/21/facebook-terms-condition_n_5551965.html. They did not steal anything, you willingly gave it to them for free to use as they like, so FU.

Also, where I am I see many happy Tesla users and no real bad reviews though orders for its lowest priced cars are falling off as the gas price dropped which means they are not going to be producing as many. I still remember the day Musk promised an electric sedan - nobody literally nobody believed him until he unveiled the Tesla S and to this day there is no competition period but he had to announce it to excite his shareholders and investors as they are the ones that trust him with their money and they are not complaining.

What part of my question you didn't understand? The point is not about the quality of the product but production capability itself. Bharat Forge is putting forth excellent guns, no doubt, but could you provide any data to back your claim that they are able to make one gun everyday? Baba Kalyani claiming doesn't mean it is possible. For example, here is Elon Musk promising that Tesla would make 7000 cars a week. Reality, just today he issued a statement that Tesla would put forth 2,00,000 cars by this year i.e. 4000 a week (an optimistic prediction). So I repeat my questions

And why should we take his (i.e. Baba Kalyani's) claims at face value? Do you have any figures to show that any of his plants have achieved such high outputs? Does any verified data of Bharat Forge's production capabilities indicate that this is possible?

 

[Craigs]

What part of my question you didn't understand? The point is not about the quality of the product but production capability itself. Bharat Forge is putting forth excellent guns, no doubt, but could you provide any data to back your claim that they are able to make one gun everyday? Baba Kalyani claiming doesn't mean it is possible. For example, here is Elon Musk promising that Tesla would make 7000 cars a week. Reality, just today he issued a statement that Tesla would put forth 2,00,000 cars by this year i.e. 4000 a week (an optimistic prediction). So I repeat my questions

Man don't be like our Eternal Pappu (hope you are not really him) and argue in thin air (Chowkidar chor hai, 30,000cr to Ambani). What Musk is doing is totally revolutionary in the car industry and has never been attempted before (make a fully electric car with a range competitive with a gas car). So there are no standards to meet only estimates and they can go wrong - investors understand that. Also, in your quote he said "a week" not "every week" or "avg per week" So even if he has one week where he makes 7000 cars he has met his promise (English is a funny language).

Howitzer's are a known quantity and other than the bigger breech BK is not doing any thing radical so he can very well be held to a higher standard and he knows that. One of the ways reputation in business is earned is by meeting targets and earning profit consistently and BK has shown that so I trust his word. If you don't trust his word you have to provide the explanation.

P.S. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/ - with just Model 3 he is at 5000 per week and with other models may be well within the target mentioned in your quote.

 

[Pandeyji]

If you don't trust his word you have to provide the explanation.

I don't have to. My question is simple, which you are refusing to answer. If you don't have the answers accept that. Otherwise provide them. I repeat the questions

And why should we take his (i.e. Baba Kalyani's) claims at face value? Do you have any figures to show that any of his plants have achieved such high outputs? Does any verified data of Bharat Forge's production capabilities indicate that this is possible?