Dhanush the Indian Bofors

[sgarg]

Yes, for that the money spend on DRDO and OFB R&D needs to be given to the Army. In order to become developer, one needs resources and an organisation. Alternatively, let us put DRDO under the Joint Chief of staff.
Today DRDO is under MoD, so the onus of development must rest with MoD who can not differentiate between the aft and fore of a gun.

The Via-media is - let the user (IAF, Navy and the Army) work together in a coordinated manner. Let their be users representatives at every level to provide users input during development and manufacture. That should not be problematic except for the bloated pay of DRDO scientist.

The OFV has started making a gun on blue prints they had kept in trash bin for so many years. When they saw the IA is about to import guns they suddenly wake up.
Good that they have woken up.

About the private players, they have been provided specifications and it would be pleasure to see them manufacturing their guns if not for India may be for exports !!

First of all, let me make it very clear to you that you are CONFUSED. The services are also under MOD. The services are not some independent organization accountable to nobody although Generals have a tendency to assume that.

So nothing wrong with DRDO being under MOD.

Now you are pointing to scientist salaries. This is a very cheap gimmick. I have no relationship with either army or DRDO but your words simply astonish me.

India has spent very little money on R&D and continues to spend too little. I hope you heard about the saying - "You pay peanuts, you get monkeys".

The problem is not DRDO. The services suffer from poor internal planning and keep on changing their requirements.

DRDO does not exist in isolation. DRDO needs industry for fabrication. DRDO has to deal with PSUs and OFBs which often lack right technology and attitude. The problem that Army faces with PSUs is also faced by DRDO.

You need to come around that DRDO is NOT the problem. The problem lies elsewhere.

Why private sector should build for exports?? Why not for Indian Army?? And what do you mean by "given the specifications"? Is that a "developer army"??

 

[pmaitra]

Yes, for that the money spend on DRDO and OFB R&D needs to be given to the Army. In order to become developer, one needs resources and an organisation. Alternatively, let us put DRDO under the Joint Chief of staff.
Today DRDO is under MoD, so the onus of development must rest with MoD who can not differentiate between the aft and fore of a gun.

The Via-media is - let the user (IAF, Navy and the Army) work together in a coordinated manner. Let their be users representatives at every level to provide users input during development and manufacture. That should not be problematic except for the bloated pay of DRDO scientist.



The OFV has started making a gun on blue prints they had kept in trash bin for so many years. When they saw the IA is about to import guns they suddenly wake up.
Good that they have woken up.

About the private players, they have been provided specifications and it would be pleasure to see them manufacturing their guns if not for India may be for exports !!

I have highlighted some parts of your comment that not only misinform, but are utterly irresponsible.

The Joint Chief of Staff is not a scientist. Let R&D be with the scientists and engineers. Let the Joint Chief of Staff do the job he does best. While he is at it, he might as well explain why we are having to spend more money on our T-90s. He should address the deficiencies within the army instead of trying to find faults with our defense labs.

MoD can quite certainly differentiate between the aft and fore of a gun. Even a teenager can. Unnecessary rhetoric.

DRDO scientists are under-paid. The scientists who develop the imports are paid a lot more. The Army can help by appreciating the work of DRDO, instead of demoralizing them.

OFV had the blueprints that were incomplete, so they had to build a lot of components in house. They have been working on the Dhanush for quite a while now, and now that it is ready, let's have a trial, and move it into production.

And finally, please pay attention to the video in this post, and re-visit your comment.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The Dhanush actually came out during 2008, It was first field tested during 2011, Their is no way OFB seems to hide it ..

What it seems that vested Interest were involve to scuttle Dhanush program, Thankfully under V.K Singh the program was given green light ..

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The OFV has started making a gun on blue prints they had kept in trash bin for so many years. When they saw the IA is about to import guns they suddenly wake up.
Good that they have woken up.

About the private players, they have been provided specifications and it would be pleasure to see them manufacturing their guns if not for India may be for exports !!

 

[sgarg]

Bharat forge might have the capability to manufacture one barrel a day, but OFB has the facilities to produce one barrel an hour. The speed of the supply chain is governed by the slowest process, which for a new product lies in quality control checks and low rate of initial production to iron out any production issues.

Why quality checks slow the process? Quality check are generally part of production in a factory. The overall equipment will be tested by an external agency. I think such tests must have been conducted in this case. If not, then yes, the first batch can be called a trial batch.
There is more flexibility with locally produced weapons as components can be changed "in service" if some fault is found later. So it is not a big problem to launch a normal rate production.

File notings and test reports are all fudged in India to block local products. There is simply too much money to be made in imports.

 

[Abhi9]

Why quality checks slow the process? Quality check are generally part of production in a factory. The overall equipment will be tested by an external agency. I think such tests must have been conducted in this case. If not, then yes, the first batch can be called a trial batch.
There is more flexibility with locally produced weapons as components can be changed "in service" if some fault is found later. So it is not a big problem to launch a normal rate production.

File notings and test reports are all fudged in India to block local products. There is simply too much money to be made in imports.

Corrupt DGQA and DGMA. its the complete answer. Corruption run deep in these areas. There is lot of corrupt elements in the Indian Army officer corp which to my sadness bring a bad name to the entire army. But in retrospective i have huge respect for the soldiers and officers who serving the force with dignity.

 

[arnabmit]

Why quality checks slow the process? Quality check are generally part of production in a factory. The overall equipment will be tested by an external agency. I think such tests must have been conducted in this case. If not, then yes, the first batch can be called a trial batch.
There is more flexibility with locally produced weapons as components can be changed "in service" if some fault is found later. So it is not a big problem to launch a normal rate production.

File notings and test reports are all fudged in India to block local products. There is simply too much money to be made in imports.

At prototype stage, every item is hand tested. A battery of tests. During initial batches of production too.

Once production quality mean is established and standard deviation ranges established, periodic sampling is done.

Later it moves to random sampling.

That is why initial production always have a high QC time devoted to it.

 

[sgarg]

I think Dhanush artillery gun is already in production phase. The first lot is being assembled.

Since it is made by OFB which is a State owned firm, no tenders are required for placing orders. OFB receives indents from MOD. It does seem that the first lot is a trial lot. Means army will do further field testing with this lot.

GOI has already approved 144 Dhanush guns for induction into Army. So my information is that the gun is being made, and there is no problem as such.

 

[grampiguy]

Re: 155mm Dhanush MK2 of 52 caliber

This is a OFB self initiated program, In a way its a competition ..

Dhanush has everything required and more in it, Their is no improvement can be done on it ..

Army requirement was always 52cal gun, DRDO is still working on papers as per Army specs, Where Dhanush is already being fielded and more importantly Dhanush design enable it to mount a bigger gun, Same as Bofors BO5 which was a fav contender in Army`s Arty tender, We are expecting OFB Dhnush MK2 in service before DRDO 155mm gun which is a feather light and perfect for heli-lift ..

Any recent news or information from authoritative source anywhere? Has the order and indent from DG Artillery reached OFB? Have they started production? How many will be delivered in 2015?

My fear is that it is still stuck in trial report study and DG Artillery desk??

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: 155mm Dhanush MK2 of 52 caliber

The first 50 units are delivered to Army by OFB by end of 2014, According to the source posted in the first post of the thread ..

 

[grampiguy]

Re: 155mm Dhanush MK2 of 52 caliber

The first 50 units are delivered to Army by OFB by end of 2014, According to the source posted in the first post of the thread ..

That is one year old news. Any new credible information to buttress that?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: 155mm Dhanush MK2 of 52 caliber

Desi Bofors howitzer undergoes final trials in major boost to indigenization

Both the Army and OFB, in fact, are "quite excited" about Dhanush, which performs "20-25% better" than the original Bofors gun in virtually all parameters like range, accuracy, consistency, low and high angle of fire and shoot-and-scoot ability. "It outclassed the Bofors during the trials in Sikkim at sub-zero temperatures at 11,500 feet altitude," said an official.

The Army hopes to plug at least some of its operational gaps in long-range, high-volume firepower through the initial induction of 414 Dhanush guns. The OFB has already been given an order of over Rs 1,260 crore to make 114 howitzers. There was a slight setback to the project when the barrel of a Dhanush prototype burst during firing trials at Pokhran in August last year. But officials contend it was the use of "old ammunition with air bubbles" that led to the accident. "The inquiry established there was no fault with the barrel or its metallurgy," he said.

Source : Desi Bofors howitzer undergoes final trials in major boost to indigenization - The Times of India

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As per the plan, OFB will manufacture 18 howitzers in this financial year, followed by 50 in the next, and 100 per year thereafter," said the official. Based on the current production plan, it will take around 6 years (2020) to produce all 414 Dhanush guns. As of June 2014 ..

Their are no longer any trails but mass production, By now Dhanush are operational ..

That is one year old news. Any new credible information to buttress that?

 

[Abhishek Shrivastava]

Re: 155mm Dhanush MK2 of 52 caliber

Desi Bofors howitzer undergoes final trials in major boost to indigenization
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As per the plan, OFB will manufacture 18 howitzers in this financial year, followed by 50 in the next, and 100 per year thereafter," said the official. Based on the current production plan, it will take around 6 years (2020) to produce all 414 Dhanush guns. As of June 2014 ..
Their are no longer any trails but mass production, By now Dhanush are operational ..

Dear Sir,
It is old News, do you some recent updates wether the trails were over or Still on.

Desi Bofors howitzer undergoes final trials in major boost to indigenization
Rajat Pandit, TNN | Jun 20, 2014, 05.32AM

 

[sgarg]

You will know when Dhanush appears in military parades. Till then no information is likely.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: 155mm Dhanush MK2 of 52 caliber

Please read post no #136 of this thread for more information ..

Dear Sir,
It is old News, do you some recent updates wether the trails were over or Still on.

 

[rahulrds1]

Bhart Electronics showing 'Electronics Suite for Artillery gun', at aero india 2015

 

[grampiguy]

@Kunal Biswas,

I am aware that Dhanush has cleared the trials by Indian Army. I also know that there is an order of 414 units in six years with 18 in the current financial year. However, there is no confirmation on whether DG Artillery has actually sent the order for production. There were some news on that saying that DGA was sitting on the order for unknown reasons.

You can see the same happening in a different acquisition program too. ALH-WSI Rudra helicopters got their IOC in 2013 but their series production is yet to start, for some unknown reasons. Some say its lack of HELINA development or lack of agreement on PARS 3LR but actual credible information is missing. So, I am insisting on getting any latest update on Dhanush production?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Their are not many report on National defense industry progress, sooner or later we will know when Dhanush appears in military parades or exercise or in Government report ..

Rudras are not at full squadron strength, Their are 5-7 of these now operational and are stationed at Army bases ..

 

[SajeevJino]

Rudras are not at full squadron strength, Their are 5-7 of these now operational and are stationed at Army bases ..

aww. Sir

Good to hear, are those have French ATGM or only with Rocket pods

 

[sgarg]

Usually a lot of information can be gleaned from questions asked in Parliament which are always on record. However we don't have a good opposition currently. Military affairs are not publicised in this country. Even disinformation is rarely denied. The government prefers to be silent.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I never saw them personally, But assuming rocket pods ..

It is important that Army now must have its own media for flow of information, It is a good thing that Government kept its silent as we are in cold war as always, But it is also important that it take serious actions against spreading disinformation via media let it be on pay or immature ..

aww. Sir

Good to hear, are those have French ATGM or only with Rocket pods

Usually a lot of information can be gleaned from questions asked in Parliament which are always on record. However we don't have a good opposition currently. Military affairs are not publicised in this country. Even disinformation is rarely denied. The government prefers to be silent.