DEFEXPO-2022

ShukantC

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Found it look the vehicle in back finally mi gaya hopium
View attachment 176624

View attachment 176625
In the first image is that the WHAP based 105mm wheeled tank destroyer proto and in the 2nd pic its that old L&T FICV prototype the one we saw in the photos of l&T factory when Modi ji visited them.

Then what is the other prototype form L&T that is making the round on social media, the one being compared to Abhay and BMP2
 

fooLIam

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System does not change in couple of years to come out of 70 years of rot....there will be some success and failures and attempts to sabotage but its better than doing nothing or ripping out entire system at once. Doing so brings chaos most of the times.
I have seen this inability/unwillingness of goverment to punish or sack the hindrance creator in Indian babudom, don’t know what’s the reason. Literally every department is nothing but trouble/hindrance creator to policymakers. Goverment designate something national project ,le and behold revenue babus keep holding/delaying land acquisition. Citing so flimsy reason that you will want to puke. Goverment told them to hold weekly meeting to make it fast le and behold again both sides sends their subordinates(whom don’t have authority to agree to make decisions)or do not bother at all or again citing flimsy reason.The rot is to the core really and until some kind of fear is instilled it will not change.Indian babudom is like that some are little better than other.
 

johnj

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No I agree with this. For once the politician is not to blame so much here, it’s the babus and uniformed professionals that should be ashamed of themselves.

look at the number of generals standing around in that picture who were present at this debacle, they are meant to be subject matter experts but seem to think it’s okay to bring this to defence minister of India to sign off on? Similarly the defence secretary is meant to have some knowledge.

this is what is so enraging about the entire thing- it reveals how deep the rot is, either through malice or sheer incompetence these jokers are not prepared for anything.

Who is going to tell the emperor he’s naked? For its size india is an incredibly weak and soft target, the Chinese aren’t.

the reason the Cold War stayed cold was there was relative parity and a degree of mutually assured destruction. When you have strength disparity that is when you will get conflict because one side will think it’s worth it
Who is going to tell the emperor he’s naked? For its size india is an incredibly weak and soft target, the Chinese aren’t.
Generals are not STEM PG holders and can't predict future warfare. They only compare one with existing one [capabilities, price, logistics & value for money] and newly added feature. Basically no one in the gov sector about future warfare or modern warfare. Means entire blame goes to Politicians not government labours[civil/military/drdo] becz they create & remove laws/organisations/gov employment..etc.., one good thing is that current gov taken initial steps to fix these issues, for ex. CDS. Rest I agree.
 

omaebakabaka

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Generals are not STEM PG holders and can't predict future warfare. They only compare one with existing one [capabilities, price, logistics & value for money] and newly added feature. Basically no one in the gov sector about future warfare or modern warfare. Means entire blame goes to Politicians not government labours[civil/military/drdo] becz they create & remove laws/organisations/gov employment..etc.., one good thing is that current gov taken initial steps to fix these issues, for ex. CDS. Rest I agree.
I think this is somewhat incorrect, they go through various programs to study military science and juxtaposing with their field experience, they should be very knowledgeable in defining the asks from the industry. THere is too much info available across the world and various wars that the only primary factor becomes field experience to come up with specific localized requirements.
 

jackprince

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I literally laugh when Indians on internet tease pakis about their armed forces
After 10 years these Indians would be defending that we don't need to maintain parity with pakis bcoz nos doesn't matter qualityyyyyyy matters :pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:
Just wait 10-15 years then u will see a failed nation threatening 3rd largest economy with a formidable armed forces
Basically until our armed forces aren't butthurt especially iaf they won't learn personally speaking even after being defeated they won't learn and go back to sleep
Yeh log jung ladhenge
When China + Pakistan will hit us badly they will be looking at ceiling
Fact.

Shahed 136 showed the world that an ingenious thought can produce a cheap weapon system which can make the most advanced systems fail to respond!

In fact, the more I observe the modern warfare being played out at Russia-Ukraine front, the more I tend to question if the so called modern warfare tactics that has been developed through years and promoted by the western sphere, and now getting emulated everywhere including India, is adequate?

The western doctrine is based on swift and overwhelming assault by high tech weapons which will produce swift victory. However, does India actually have such luxury of thought?

Howevermuch we may deride Porkistan military, they are not pushovers. Neither are Chinese. Pakistan can almost match us tonne for tonne in a single battlefield even if they might not be able to put as many bodies as us. But, our doctrine - as much as I have read and learnt - calls for holding corps which far outnumber strike corps. On the other side, Chinese can also have numerical advantage and the idea of technological advantage may turn out not so great in our favour if we come to blows.

The Russo-Ukr war shows that the battlefield is far from ideal where a small body of troops with modern warfare can overwhelm a numerically superior force with less modern equipment. Once the initial shock gets over, it comes down to grind and for enduring the grind one has to have the bodies and steady supply of equipment. After all, the time is a great teacher and your enemy is learning at the same time he is getting his ass kicked.

So, what I mean to say is that do we go for the leaner and meaner force, as being promoted, or do you we find a balance where we retain some fat alongwith the muscle too so that when the time comes we don't have to go looking for fresh meat.

The Houthis showed us that simply to have modern weapon is not a guarantee for decisive victory. The Russo-Ukr war reemphasized that.

So, what I mean to say, to summarise, that our perception of Pakistan having been weakened and not posing a challenge to India anymore, may turn out to be dangerous mistake on out part. A grave mistake.
 
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omaebakabaka

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True, that's why they still interested in cold war era weapons & russian weapons.
Also Our forces train & conduct military exercise with foreign countries which helps to understand new tech & capabilities, and help in creating rfi & new items plus watch conflicts around the world.
Anyways, if military wants future weapons, first buy current ones, which help profit & confidence to producer, and they start r&d of future
No one knows which part of our system is rotten and who is exaggerating capabilities. For one, I would not trust private players yet but I do trust PSU's like DRDO and HAL and so on to a certain extent but they do exaggerate. Simple law of averages applied to IA states that we never got the urgency right over years and always go to war with underwhelming resource base, so this is no different. Lot of smoke about indigenous this and that on paper but let's see if any of it is good enough in reality. Not every person in gov or bureaucracy is corrupt, again based on law of avgs and the fact that country is still intact. Some honest person will find a clever way to defeat these lobby thugs. I don't want PSU's treated on pedestal either, we need good checks and balances...
 

johnj

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They can't even fund theie basics without a pan in the hand, chickens will come to roast as the world gets into more difficulties ahead. IAF is the most serious potential setback for us and the key in future wars
Pak - two points 1. civilians - deep crisis, & 2. military - buying sphere from aps mbt, aip subs, to j10s
Q- whos going to operate these weapons in future ? beggars ?
 

Knowitall

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Note, this possibly isn't the actual L&T FICV. But L&T-DRDO joint development. Who's offering I can't understand. CVRDE FICV yet to be fabricated and L&T FICV, yes that's too present, is much different

Entire internet has gone into cope mode after our next gen FICV came out straight from a Soviet factory in WW2.

Hopefully there is some truth to this.
 
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