Decision on $10 billion MMRCA deal soon

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Galaxy

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Price wasn't an issue in technical evaluations, now the winner goes to L1 bidder.
Easier said than done.

If price was the only criteria after technical evaluations, Then why Typhoon came into contest ? Obviously, from Day 1, Everyone knew Rafale is cheaper than Typhoon. Isn't it ?

Eurofighter Typhoon is better than Rafale in quality/features, So the Price. There is nothing called cheap and best.

Rafale may win, But I don't think Rafale=Typhoon. Difference of features makes difference of price. Although difference is small, But still it is.
 
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Armand2REP

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Easier said than done.

If price was the only criteria after technical evaluations, Then why Typhoon came into contest ? Obviously, from Day 1, Everyone knew Rafale is cheaper than Typhoon. Isn't it ?
Did you just get what I said?? Price was not an issue in technical evaluations, it was selecting the best as it was TECHNICAL. L1 bidder is the deciding factor in the shortlist.

Eurofighter Typhoon is better than Rafale in quality/features, So the Price. There is nothing called cheap and best.
Even if that was true, being not, the best plane doesn't matter as the shortlist meets all technical requirements. It goes to the cheapest lifetime cost. It has been explained to death on Livefist.

Rafale may win, But I don't think Rafale=Typhoon. Difference of features makes difference of price.
They have to submit all the features that meet the bid so they have to be similar. Many of Typhoon's features are still in experimentation which cost more and that has to be factored into EF Consortium's bid. Not to mention the fact it is already 25% more expensive in overall cost.

Rafale = L1 = winner
 

Galaxy

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I think, We should Buy 100 Rafale and 100 Typhoon. By 2018-2020, Both will be inducted.

It would be nightmare for China and Pakistan.

Sukoi 30 MKI, MIG29, MIRAGE M2k, Tejas MK-1,2, PAK FA, Rafale, Typhoon - Even, If we deploy 1 squadron each in North-East, It would be 8 and Huge Air-Superiority.
 

Galaxy

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Did you just get what I said?? Price was not an issue in technical evaluations, it was selecting the best as it was TECHNICAL. L1 bidder is the deciding factor in the shortlist.
I agree. Fair enough.

Even if that was true, being not, the best plane doesn't matter as the shortlist meets all technical requirements. It goes to the cheapest lifetime cost. It has been explained to death on Livefist.
Yes, I agree both fighter jets completed all technicality and requirement for IAF. The difference is not big. It's small, so the price. Typhoon is little better than Rafale so the price is also high. But both are fine as per our requirement.

They have to submit all the features that meet the bid so they have to be similar. Many of Typhoon's features are still in experimentation which cost more and that has to be factored into EF Consortium's bid. Not to mention the fact it is already 25% more expensive in overall cost.

Rafale = L1 = winner
You are saying this parceque Vous êtes français. :)

I saw few German/British guy also saying with never ending debate that Typhoon is better than Rafale. :)

anyone can win and I prefer Typhoon.
 
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The Messiah

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lol what are you both arguing about ?

decision has already been made and they are going though formalities...only official announcement needs to be made unless someone changes there pitch.
 

Galaxy

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Today, I read somewhere (I don't remember link) that whoever will win has to invest certain portion of the deal in India for future development and Defence Industry like that. Is this true ??
 

Galaxy

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Typhoon or Rafale: DAC meet to decide on next combat jet

Typhoon or Rafale: DAC meet to decide on next combat jet

The mother of all defence deals is back in the headlines again. India's Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) would meet today to decide on the future of the contract for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (M-MRCA).

All eyes are on Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale as to who would get go-ahead for the mega-deal. Both the short-listed companies are lobbying hard for the $10.4 billion deal.

Recently German Ambassador to India Thomas Matussek described India as an "anchor of stability" in the region and said that was why Germany was giving it the best technology it possesses. Germany is a part of the four-nation consortium that builds the Eurofighter Typhoon. The other three countries are United Kingdom, Spain and Italy.

A Typhoon Eurofighter lands at the Farnborough Airshow on 20 July 2010 in Farnborough, England. Dan Kitwood/Getty Images
Asked whether the ties between India and Germany would be affected if the Eurofighter does not get shortlisted, he said, "We don't take this hypothesis. We will work very very hard to show that our product is a very good product. So we are not talking about Plan B. We are concentrating on Plan A."

On 27 April, India shortlisted the two European companies for procuring 126 M-MRCA deal for the Indian Air Force in which six companies were participating.

The next day, US said it was "deeply disappointed" at losing out in the bid for India's multi-billion dollar fighter deal contract but was "respectful" of the procurement process.

In a statement, Ambassador Timothy Roemer, said he had been assured at the highest levels in the Indian government that the procurement process for the fighters "has been and will be transparent and fair".

"The US Embassy in New Delhi was informed on Wednesday that two aircrafts offered by the US government through the foreign military sales process were not selected for procurement by the Indian ministry of defence," the statement said.

"We are reviewing the documents received from the Government of India and are respectful of the procurement process. We are, however, deeply disappointed by this news," Roemer said.

He was commenting on the rejection of Boeing's F-18 and Lockheed-Martin's F-16 fighters by India.

Roemer said he was "extremely confident" that the Boeing F-18IN and Lockheed-Martin F-16IN would provide the Indian Air Force an "unbeatable platform with proven technologies at a competitive price".


Under the offsets clause in the Defence Procurement Procedure, foreign vendors bagging deals worth over Rs 300 crore have to reinvest at least 30 percent of the contract amount into Indian defence, civilian aerospace or the homeland security sectors.


In the M-MRCA competition, companies have to invest 50 percent of the worth of the deal into the Indian defence sector only.

Typhoon or Rafale: DAC meet to decide on next combat jet | Firstpost
 

Galaxy

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Good thing is that, All major companies related to defence is trying to enter Indian market. Boeing is more than willing to sell anything so Israeli.

Saab sets up Indian subsidiary


New Delhi, Sep 29 (IANS) Swedish defence firm Saab AB will Oct 1 launch its Indian subsidiary, Saab India Technologies Private Limited, to conduct research in defence, aviation and internal security technologies for this country's security forces, the company said Thursday.
 

Armand2REP

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I saw few German/British guy also saying with never ending debate that Typhoon is better than Rafale. :)

anyone can win and I prefer Typhoon.
It isn't a matter of better, it is a matter of cost now.
 

plugwater

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decision has already been made and they are going though formalities...only official announcement needs to be made unless someone changes there pitch.
They have not yet opened the commercial bids submitted by them.
 

death.by.chocolate

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It isn't a matter of better, it is a matter of cost now.
Not quite, the procurement policy has a provision that allows MoD to discard L1 lowest cost bidder for 'strategic benefit' that the next highest bidder offers . The policy document is dileberately vague on what qualifies as strategic benefit, an exceptional ToT offer or partership may be considered strategically beneficial. In any case both vendor bids must match the bench mark value established by the contract negotiation team before the bids are opened, failure to match the established 'reasonable price' criteria will be the end of the MMRCA tender.
 

plugwater

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Not quite, the procurement policy has a provision that allows MoD to discard L1 lowest cost bidder for 'strategic benefit' that the next highest bidder offers . The policy document is dileberately vague on what qualifies as strategic benefit, an exceptional ToT offer or partership may be considered strategically beneficial. In any case both vendor bids must match the bench mark value established by the contract negotiation team before the bids are opened, failure to match the established 'reasonable price' criteria will be the end of the MMRCA tender.
ToT, offsets and everything have been cleared for both the fighters. They will open the bids with the presence of both bidders so i guess lowest bidder wins this deal.
 

death.by.chocolate

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ToT, offsets and everything have been cleared for both the fighters. They will open the bids with the presence of both bidders so i guess lowest bidder wins this deal.
Possibly, unless the Indian MoD deem one of the two vendors (ToT / Offset) offering more desirable. It isn't safe to assume the Rafale is cheaper, even if it is, the Euro consortia may have thrown in some strategic incentives to sweeten the deal for India. In either case, both vendors bids must first meet the threshold for 'reasonable price' established by the contract negotiation team.
 

plugwater

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Possibly, unless the Indian MoD deem one of the two vendors (ToT / Offset) offering more desirable. It isn't safe to assume the Rafale is cheaper, even if it is, the Euro consortia may have thrown in some strategic incentives to sweeten the deal for India. In either case, both vendors bids must first meet the threshold for 'reasonable price' established by the contract negotiation team.
IMO at this stage ToT/offsets weighs little, both fighters have met most of the parameters set by IAF, anyway i am not confident on rafale being the lowest bidder, anything can happen :)

But Rafale will come earlier than EF which is more important.
 

agentperry

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the worst thing about this whole mmrca is the slow delivery pace. after signing of contract 18 jets will come in fly away condition from manufacturer which will be followed by hal made mmrca at the pace of 12 per year. they plane to induct it within 12 years after signing of contract. means the last one will fly away from factory sometime in between 2024 and the 7 squadrons of mmrca will be completed by the flight testing and airworthiness etc by 2025.( provided contract is signed this year itself).

with this i can conclude that iaf is surely going on modernization plan but not expansion plan. these mmrca meant to replace ageing mig-27 will start entering many years after its retirement scheduled within 3-4 years. ( even if they dont retire they will crash because of soviet tech mastery).

this is a strategical failure to even think!! i dont think iaf can go beyond the sanctioned strength leave aside the 42 squadron target they set( until unless they make every squadron have 12-14 aircrafts)
 

anoop_mig25

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Possibly, unless the Indian MoD deem one of the two vendors (ToT / Offset) offering more desirable. It isn't safe to assume the Rafale is cheaper, even if it is, the Euro consortia may have thrown in some strategic incentives to sweeten the deal for India. In either case, both vendors bids must first meet the threshold for 'reasonable price' established by the contract negotiation team.
sorry for asking and delaying the thread but i am very much curious so what could be " some strategic incentives to sweeten the deal " ?
 
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