DEATH BY BUDGET: Is This The Indian Army’s Angriest Report To Government?

Immanuel

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It is silly and supremely ignorant to say that the manpower increase in IA, paramil and virtually all services is unwarranted. The numbers mandated to all the 3 services now were painstakingly calculated and formulated based on the new doctrine as well as future needs, put in place during the tenure of Gen V.K, the 3 services even with their shortages are the most effective/capable they have ever been. However, all 3 services are known to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to acquiring new platforms. Combine that with a still very inefficient MOD and meagre budgets, leads to these sad situations.

I say it again, even massive 200 + LCA mk-2, 2600 + FICV, 200 AMCA, 3-5K Nirbhay, 500-1000 Arjun mk-2, 30000+ ATGMs etc. cannot happen if the budget is not raised to atleast 3% of GDP by 2022 and a gradual increase to 5% of GDP 2030. It is not an outrageous amount to achieve and we should aim to get there else these budget crunches will bite into everything. By then we would have surpassed China in popu.

Keep in mind, local doesn't always mean cheaper, a single Arjun Mk-2's going cost is around 37-38 crore, probably would drop to around 30 crore with an order 500-1000, while T-90 is actually cheaper (reliability issues aside).
 

James-bond

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Nothing new, every employee/fund receiving organization says that 'we lack funds and we want MORE'.

Want to say more but last time i said 'Army is not sacred cow' ..... they banned me. :pound:
 

Mikesingh

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But central govt is definitely going thru a financial crunch. 7th pay commission and GST revenue has hit everybody hard.

I think country is running only because of cost saving measures introduced in first two years.
Cost cutting? But the government has just doled out hundreds of crores to build useless Shivaji and Ambedkar statues for political brownie points - which for this government seems to be more important than defence of the nation!

This year's allocation is the lowest since the Sino Indian conflict of 1962 - less than 2% of the GDP! WTF is going on?
 

Guest

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Defence Secretary, has told Parliament that Finance Ministry is not supporting the MoD as per requirement. Just recently a Joint Secretary of Finance Ministry was found banging his fellow lady bureaucrat by French police who even video taped their colorful act. It seems Finance Ministry is full of sh!ts 1st they sabotaged Demonetization and now this.
 

singhboy98

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Defence Secretary, has told Parliament that Finance Ministry is not supporting the MoD as per requirement. Just recently a Joint Secretary of Finance Ministry was found banging his fellow lady bureaucrat by French police who even video taped their colorful act. It seems Finance Ministry is full of sh!ts 1st they sabotaged Demonetization and now this.
https://www.pgurus.com/top-finance-...n-paris-french-cops-handed-over-tapes-to-raw/

Were you referring to this bureaucrat? This seems too good to be true. I would not be surprised if it turns out that the whole thing was scripted by Indian intelligence agencies.
 

Mikesingh

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Just recently a Joint Secretary of Finance Ministry was found banging his fellow lady bureaucrat by French police who even video taped their colorful act. It seems Finance Ministry is full of sh!ts 1st they sabotaged Demonetization and now this.
Wow! Where can I get hold of this video?? :bounce::biggrin2:
 

Guest

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https://www.pgurus.com/top-finance-...n-paris-french-cops-handed-over-tapes-to-raw/

Were you referring to this bureaucrat? This seems too good to be true. I would not be surprised if it turns out that the whole thing was scripted by Indian intelligence agencies.
This has also been reported in French media.

https://twitter.com/apnnewsindia/status/972783339307503616
However there is surprising silence in Indian media.
Wow! Where can I get hold of this video?? :bounce::biggrin2:
Try asking RAW. :hail:
 

Armand2REP

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Tanks, aircraft, art, Troop carriers etc are on market and hence their indigenous counterparts are subject to sabotage (Arjun), derision (Tejas), bad mouthing (Insas 1b1) through paid article by MSM and red tap-ism by MOD... A plan is hatched and as if on cue from a hidden hand an entire machinery is activated with the objective of herding the country towards buying foreign maal...... MSM is deployed to undermine indigenous products, raise hue and cry on shortage of arms & ammo, exhorting the preeminence of foreign maal over indigenous product ... we don't see the hidden puppeteers but can see the manifestation of their actions on the ground.....
Or maybe the answer is even more simple than that. Those items are already on the market so the options available set a high bar for what the Indian armed forces require from its domestic industry. When those domestic programmes fall short, it should be obvious why they want the other. Constantly charging them with corruption and sabotage hurts morale and stalls progress on much needed modernisation. Indian procurement does not act like China who has no choice but to buy their own inferior products because they are embargoed from buying what they really want.
 

Bahamut

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I have often argued against this argument.

Reduce to what? The Army today carries out everything from border management, to COIN, to Natural Disaster Relief ops to building bridges in Mumbai. outside of batmen etc where are non essential personal who are sitting around doing nothing? Most of our battalions in Orbat are understaffed. ALL our borders are volatile

Also - you reduce these posts and you suddenly have massive unemployment. the Indian economy is simply not ready to absorb so many people (even if they have tangible real world skills). That is ALSO a burden on the economy which if MoD doesnt pay for the HM will pay for.
The reason army does things like relief work is because the agency responsible for it are underfunded.
By cutting size, I mean in things like army farms and other non military areas. Look at how many units in IA are combat ready it better to have smaller better equipped army then to have a massive under equipped army.
 

rkhanna

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The reason army does things like relief work is because the agency responsible for it are underfunded.
By cutting size, I mean in things like army farms and other non military areas. Look at how many units in IA are combat ready it better to have smaller better equipped army then to have a massive under equipped army.
My Point is. that The moment you take these roles away from the army and give them to other agencies (who are underfunded) - Those funds will also leave the army for them. irrespective there is going to be an impact.

All i am saying is that its way more complicated than saying the Army has excess personal and needs to become "leaner" by looking at China / America etc etc. Where fat can be trimmed (Farms etc) it is happening. But there are "limitations" to this fat that we are not able to quantify.

Ironically at the same time people on this forum want us to have a "Marine Corp" unit.

India's military responsibilities are only going to grow. India's borders are going to get ALOT more volatile. (Pakistan/ China/ Myanmar/ Nepal / Bangladesh / Lanka) Our involvement overseas will also grow - Today its under the UN banner but soon it will expand to our own banner.

Today even with BSF / ITBF / SSB / CRPF pulling alot of border and internal COIN duties are Armed Services (MoD and HM) are all stretched.
 

AmoghaVarsha

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What is the actual percentage of govt expenditure on Defence? Not percentage of GDP which is less than 2% but actual percentage of the Budget.

How does it compare to other countries?

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AmoghaVarsha

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I did some back of the envelope rough calculations.

The total amount granted to MoD was 62.8bn 2.6% of gdp or 13.9% of budget. Out of this actual defence budget is around 43.4bn or 1.7% of gdp or 9.6% of budget.

Now the demand is to raise the defence budget to 3% of gdp or atleast 2.5%. I am assuming that this demand is for the actual allocation for defence budget and not what is allocated to MoD.

If we talk about a 2.5% gdp defence budget it will be around 62.5bn that will be 13.8% of total budget. Add to this the other allocation of MoD and the total allocation to MoD would have to be 81.9bn. That would be 3.2% of gdp or 18.2% of the budget.

Can anyone link me to a list of percentage of defence budget of actual budgets of countries? Where do we stand?

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hit&run

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So Bipin Rawat who was speaking like a politician on behalf of BJP has suddenly become anti Government.

COAS praising China appears to me an inglorious surrender that without certain new toys he won't be able to fight them.

The great Irony is in the demand of so many goodies now when 10 years of UPA were wasted and Army itself made sure nothing homemade gets inducted.

Fools are those who ask for mature MIC that yields 50 to 60% of indigenously developed products and compare it with China who has been begging Russia, Israel and France to develop its weapons.

China will come to an age when they will win a War. So far they are only good at propaganda and this cribbing COAS of India is feeding on it.
 

prohumanity

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Putting things in perspective: Military Budget of selected countries:

U.S.A.= $ 650 Billion (size of economy $ 8 Trillion)
China = $120 Billion (size of economy $ 4 Trillion)
Russia=$ 75 Billion (size of economy $ 2 Trillion)
India = $ 65 Billion (size of economy $2.5 Trillion)
Pakistan= $8 Billion. (size of economy $ 300 Billion)
 

darshan978

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Putting things in perspective: Military Budget of selected countries:

U.S.A.= $ 650 Billion (size of economy $ 8 Trillion)
China = $120 Billion (size of economy $ 4 Trillion)
Russia=$ 75 Billion (size of economy $ 2 Trillion)
India = $ 65 Billion (size of economy $2.5 Trillion)
Pakistan= $8 Billion. (size of economy $ 300 Billion)
usa gdp in 2017 is at 17 trillions$
and china at 12 trillion dollars
 

shiphone

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and the correction of defence budget 2018:

USA: 686 billion
China: 175 billion
Russia:46 billion

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Data of 2017

145115ow9nd6b063wvwdwl.jpg
 

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