Dassault Unveils NEURON Stealth Drone

pankaj nema

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
10,308
Likes
38,743
Country flag
With India investing heavily in BMD network the ground and air based radar coverage
will only get better and better

Infact India's entire air defence coverage is betting a massive boost with number of NEW
ground based layered radars , aerostats , AWACS , helicopters etc etc coming up

There was a news of India asking Raytheon for airborne AESA radars to be based on Gulf stream
or Bombardier jets

And then Brazilian Embraers are also coming up

When our BMD network wants to and MIGHT take out supersonic ballistic missiles
then detecting these slow moving UAVs UCAV cannot be impossible
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
When our BMD network wants to and MIGHT take out supersonic ballistic missiles
then detecting these slow moving UAVs UCAV cannot be impossible
Not so easy. It is difficult to seek such targets. You will need multiple fighters squadrons searching the ground from above to find them.

Ballistic missiles fly high, UAVs and UCAVs don't.
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Haha! Then we will talk about Neuron after it is in service, until then it is the same as the X-45. Let's see when Neuron flies, shall we.
Uh, X-45 is CANCELLED so it is hardly the same.

I am willing to bet Taranis will fly before Neuron. They were scheduled to fly it in October 2011.
Taranis was supposed to fly in 2010, it is now 2012.

Russia is currently working on projects that France cannot even think of. New nuclear submarines, ships, new ICBMs, new aircraft (PAKFA , PAKDA and MRTA), an entire GPS equivalent constellation of satellites, new tanks etc. Like I said, give credit where it is due. No need to sit on the non existent high horse.
Uhm, yeah... France is building new subs, new ICBMs, stealth drones, strategic transport, GPS constellation, new tank destroyers, future infantry systems ect. France spends 3X R&D what Russia does and actually finish what it starts. Russians have completed NOTHING since the Cold War.

Btw, SKAT was canceled has been transferred to Sukhoi or at least the project is. Considering we are building a prototype of Aura it makes sense to believe the Chinese are ahead. The Chinese showed the Dark Sword in 2006 and the Combat Eagle a little while later, all models. But we know they are up to something.
Skat got as far as a full size mock-up, Chinese never got bigger than hand models. We are supposed to give credit for toys?

Finally, we can't compare the X-47B to the Neuron at all. They are not even in the same class. Neuron is in the same class as BAE Taranis, MTOW of around 6 tons compared to Taranis's 8 tons. The X-47B will be as big as the F-16 with a payload of 2 tons internally. The MTOW of X-47B is over 20 tons and is powered by the same engines as the F-15/16. The X-47C will exceed the Rafale in range, payload and of course technology.
The PW 220U only provides 16,000lbs of thrust, NEURON will fly with an M88-2 with 17,000lbs. It will exceed any lame underpowered UCAVs.

Aura is also in the 15 ton class, heavier than the LCA, and is expected to enter service in 2018. So, at more than twice the weight compared to both Neuron and Taranis.
Heavier with less power.... nice.

Another important point I wanted to make. Both Dassault and BAE have claimed their respective projects are technology demonstrators and are not going into service. So, that's another little point that needs to be kept in mind. A 400Kg payload is useless after all. The American X series aircraft are also technology demonstrators and won't be seeing service.
All of them are demonstrators.... soooo?

So, the only UCAV claimed to be built for operational service is India's AURA. :cool2:
So operational...

 

J20!

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
2,748
Likes
1,546
Country flag
Skat got as far as a full size mock-up, Chinese never got bigger than hand models. We are supposed to give credit for toys?
What Dassault has done is commendable, but there's no need to belittle what everyone else is doing.



I sincerely doubt that's a wing from a "hand-model".
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
Uh, X-45 is CANCELLED so it is hardly the same.
It wasn't canceled. It was a demonstrator. Notice the letter X in the designation.

Taranis was supposed to fly in 2010, it is now 2012.
Started in 2007 and fly in 2010? No way. The date was Oct 2011. Now it is 3 months late. It is a demonstrator.

Uhm, yeah... France is building new subs, new ICBMs, stealth drones, strategic transport, GPS constellation, new tank destroyers, future infantry systems ect. France spends 3X R&D what Russia does and actually finish what it starts. Russians have completed NOTHING since the Cold War.
Oh! Please. There is no planned SSBN, only a new SSN.

Stealth drone is a demonstrator.

Transport, never checked, so I will give you the benefit of doubt.

New tanks destroyers??? No new tank?

Future infantry systems are something everybody is working on.

Galileo, it's a 25 nation project and uses Russian launch vehicles. :laugh: Glonass is already operational and has global coverage.

Skat got as far as a full size mock-up, Chinese never got bigger than hand models. We are supposed to give credit for toys?
Agreed. But there is a British version which is in the same class. You said the X-47B and Neuron are the only analogues, so I said no and asked you to give credit where it is due.

The PW 220U only provides 16,000lbs of thrust, NEURON will fly with an M88-2 with 17,000lbs. It will exceed any lame underpowered UCAVs.
Oh! Please. The X-47B has a 30000lbs power plant. Did you forget it is a 42000lbs machine?

Heavier with less power.... nice.
It will be either powered by Kaveri or the M88-3. :laugh:

All of them are demonstrators.... soooo?
That's what I am saying. They are all demonstrators. Nothing fancy in what France and 4 other nations are doing.

So operational...

Not a demonstrator. :eyebrows:
 

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
It wasn't canceled. It was a demonstrator. Notice the letter X in the designation.

X-45C cancellation prevents Boeing rolling out J-UCAS demonstrator

Started in 2007 and fly in 2010? No way. The date was Oct 2011. Now it is 3 months late. It is a demonstrator.
Ground testing will start in early 2009 and the first flight of the Taranis is planned for the first quarter of 2010.

http://defenceforumindia.com/military-aviation/1502-un-manned-aerial-vehicles-3.html#post15171
Taranis on Track for First Flight in 2010

Then it was supposed to fly early 2011 and now it is pushed back to the same launch as NEURON. We shall see if it doesn't get pushed back a fourth time.

Oh! Please. There is no planned SSBN, only a new SSN.
Le Terrible SSBN - YouTube

Plus a new missile to go with it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMqekN2nXhQ

Both are fully operational while Russia = unending testing

Stealth drone is a demonstrator.
We have to make sure it doesn't get hijacked like shoddy American drones

Captured US drone (RQ-170) - Iran TV - YouTube

Transport, never checked, so I will give you the benefit of doubt.
Airbus A400M Aerobatics HD - YouTube

Enters service at the end of the year... where are Russian transports? They can't even restart production of legacy lines much less make a new transporter.

New tanks destroyers??? No new tank?
Leclerc got upgraded in the 2010 modernisation, we don't need new tanks. Russia abandoned their new tank so what does that tell you? :taunt:

Future infantry systems are something everybody is working on.
We are done working on it, we are the only ones who finished it...

World's Most Advanced Infantry - YouTube

Galileo, it's a 25 nation project and uses Russian launch vehicles. :laugh: Glonass is already operational and has global coverage.
Everyone knows France runs EASA, home to HQ, spaceport and largest contributor. Russia can't launch a satellite without 1:2 blowing up or losing control. They certainly don't have anything like this...

ELISA ELINT MICROSATS - YouTube

Agreed. But there is a British version which is in the same class. You said the X-47B and Neuron are the only analogues, so I said no and asked you to give credit where it is due.
Taranis first flight is 2 years behind schedule, it is not an analog when it doesn't go anywhere.

Oh! Please. The X-47B has a 30000lbs power plant. Did you forget it is a 42000lbs machine?
The F100-PW-220U is a derivative of the F-100-PW-220E engine capable of providing up to 16,000 pounds of thrust.

F100-PW-220U

It will be either powered by Kaveri or the M88-3. :laugh:
They would try to stick that on paper machete. :laugh:
 

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
3,604
Likes
7,573
Country flag
well Neuron is just a copy of the first Boeing aircraft, hasn't even flown yet, so long time from being operational.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,558
Country flag
Notable UCAV demonstrators that already took flight:


Boeing X-45A (First flight: May 22, 2002)


Northrop Grumman X-47A (First flight: February 23, 2003)


EADS Barracuda (First flight: April 2006)


General Atomics Avenger (First flight: April 4, 2009)


Northrop Grumman X-47B (First flight: February 4, 2011)


Boeing Phantom Ray (Maiden flight: April 27, 2011)
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,558
Country flag
Northrop Grumman first gear up flight test:


More or less this would be how Dassault's Neuron or other tailless stealth UCAVs will look like in flight.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Galaxy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
7,086
Likes
3,934
Country flag
IMO, If we purchase Rafale, NEURON should come with ToT as complimentary Gift. It will be helpful for our Aura UCAV project.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,558
Country flag
Neuron is a tech demonstrator, not a production aircraft. IN other words France is still taking first steps in UCAV development, very much like India. So I don't know how much use is its tech will be to Indian UCAV development.
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
The project was canceled. However the X-45 was a tech demonstrator like the Neuron. After completion of Neuron would we say the project was canceled. It's different if it was meant for service and then was canceled. But if it was meant to be a tech demo since the beginning, then I don't see the point of disputing it.

Ground testing will start in early 2009 and the first flight of the Taranis is planned for the first quarter of 2010.

http://defenceforumindia.com/military-aviation/1502-un-manned-aerial-vehicles-3.html#post15171
Taranis on Track for First Flight in 2010

Then it was supposed to fly early 2011 and now it is pushed back to the same launch as NEURON. We shall see if it doesn't get pushed back a fourth time.
Ok. But it would only mean Taranis would have greater chances flying first.

Just had to look at the 1st second of the video and recognized it as the existent Triomphant class.

Plus a new missile to go with it...

M51 Missile Evolution - YouTube
Did not dispute it.

Both are fully operational while Russia = unending testing
The Triomphant class is in the same league as the Delta IV, except for newer noise reduction technology as it is newer. Bulava is in a league of it's own, can't compare to any other missile in service.

We have to make sure it doesn't get hijacked like shoddy American drones
:yoga:

Nothing to say here. :rolleyes:

I thought you were talking about this. Ah! The 400 nation consortium. Now you will say France owns EADS and completely reject the notion that first flight happened in Spain and has American engines.

Enters service at the end of the year... where are Russian transports? They can't even restart production of legacy lines much less make a new transporter.
New transport is in the design stage for medium lift capability. As for heavy lift, the IL-76 surpasses the A-400M. The Russians have plenty of the IL-76 and many of them are young.

Leclerc got upgraded in the 2010 modernisation, we don't need new tanks. Russia abandoned their new tank so what does that tell you? :taunt:
The Russians are going for a whole new program, not just a new tank. Modernization of the Leclerc does not compare to a UCP program.

We are done working on it, we are the only ones who finished it...

World's Most Advanced Infantry - YouTube
Gee the economics of scale will go in your favour for obvious reasons. If India managed to equip only 22000 soldiers for the F-INSAS, then it would be a major failure. Like I said this is an ongoing project everywhere. The size and length of your project does not indicate how advanced it is compared to other programs. The recently concluded exercise in India was meant to validate similar systems and soldiers are expected to be operationally deployed this year as part of Phase I of the project. 60000 soldiers were deployed in the exercise.

Everyone knows France runs EASA, home to HQ, spaceport and largest contributor. Russia can't launch a satellite without 1:2 blowing up or losing control.
I wouldn't be so blind if I was using Russian launching facilities for launching Galileo satellites. People will think France does not have the capacity to launch heavy satellites.

They certainly don't have anything like this...

ELISA ELINT MICROSATS - YouTube
Wow. This is stuff from the 80s. Micro - Macro, does it matter when they are low orbit ELINT satellites. It is so ancient.

Taranis first flight is 2 years behind schedule, it is not an analog when it doesn't go anywhere.
Haha! Then let's make such fantastic claims after we see Neuron in the air shall we?

The F100-PW-220U is a derivative of the F-100-PW-220E engine capable of providing up to 16,000 pounds of thrust.

F100-PW-220U
The 8 ton engine on X-47B is only for the demonstrator model just like Neuron's 4 ton engine. Neuron will be upgraded with a 8 ton engine much later.

They would try to stick that on paper machete. :laugh:
It would be funny if we managed to induct a superior aircraft to the Neuron, not...
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
UCAVs isn't something any country will give to us. This is something we are going to have to develop on our own.

We will start off with a conventional UCAV based on the Rustom H and then further develop the Aura.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,558
Country flag
Last edited by a moderator:

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
The project was canceled. However the X-45 was a tech demonstrator like the Neuron. After completion of Neuron would we say the project was canceled. It's different if it was meant for service and then was canceled. But if it was meant to be a tech demo since the beginning, then I don't see the point of disputing it.
Boeing was trying to win the J-UCAS contract and lost, so it was cancelled. NEURON is the sole beneficiary of a six nation consortium and is the final step to a production version, same as the X-47B that won J-UCAS. Unless Europe and USA don't plan on having stealth UCAVs, they will finish.

Ok. But it would only mean Taranis would have greater chances flying first.
OK, but how much faith do you put into a project that has failed to get airbourne three times going on four?

Just had to look at the 1st second of the video and recognized it as the existent Triomphant class.
The difference between Le Terrible and the existant Triomphant is as big as the difference between the Los Angeles is to the Virginia. All SNLEs are being upgraded to Terrible standard. It isa generational difference.



Did not dispute it.
Wise

The Triomphant class is in the same league as the Delta IV, except for newer noise reduction technology as it is newer. Bulava is in a league of it's own, can't compare to any other missile in service.
The Triomphant class is upgrading to Terrible standard which is the most advanced SSBN in the water. It is the same technologies going on Barracuda. M51 is an easy contender to the Bulava and has a much better track record, ie perfect.

I thought you were talking about this. Ah! The 400 nation consortium. Now you will say France owns EADS and completely reject the notion that first flight happened in Spain and has American engines.
France does own EADS, its CEO is French and Airbus HQ. We also have first operational order and largest workshare. Who can claim more? The engines don't have a thing to do with America.

New transport is in the design stage for medium lift capability. As for heavy lift, the IL-76 surpasses the A-400M. The Russians have plenty of the IL-76 and many of them are young.
MTA is frozen and Russia is looking at the cargo version of An-148 to fill that role. As for the Il-76 the plant in Tashkent is in shambles and the new line they are trying to start is going nowhere. They just released the first prototype upgrade of Il-76 to Il-476 , much less being able to produce it. None of VVS Il-76s are young, they haven't been produced since the 1997 and none have been delivered to VVS since 1987.

The Russians are going for a whole new program, not just a new tank. Modernization of the Leclerc does not compare to a UCP program.
It doesn't compare to Leclerc because Leclerc is the tank they wish they had. :laugh:

Gee the economics of scale will go in your favour for obvious reasons. If India managed to equip only 22000 soldiers for the F-INSAS, then it would be a major failure. Like I said this is an ongoing project everywhere. The size and length of your project does not indicate how advanced it is compared to other programs. The recently concluded exercise in India was meant to validate similar systems and soldiers are expected to be operationally deployed this year as part of Phase I of the project. 60000 soldiers were deployed in the exercise.
Gee, the fact that France is the ONLY nation with a mass production FSS and the world benchmark for a number of nations trying to mimic must not mean anything to you. Russia copying the total concept with Thales supplying the same networking used in FELIN says something to the rest of the world. Those 31,500 kits are enough to cover all oversea troops in the Armee de terre. There is about as much faith in F-INSAS is as there are in DRDO getting anything done besides insect nets and bug repellent.

I wouldn't be so blind if I was using Russian launching facilities for launching Galileo satellites. People will think France does not have the capacity to launch heavy satellites.
We aren't using Russian launching facilities, we are using French launching facilities with French safety checks which is why we don't have Russian rockets losing our payloads. It is a low-end rocket for light payloads, something we don't want to waste money developing. It doesn't replace the A5 used for higher payload requirements. Now lets not get started on the GSLV failures...

Wow. This is stuff from the 80s. Micro - Macro, does it matter when they are low orbit ELINT satellites. It is so ancient.
It is 21st century stuff... sorry you don't keep up with space events. You know Apollo didn't happen last year?

Haha! Then let's make such fantastic claims after we see Neuron in the air shall we?
No need to wait, this is DGA we are talking about. No testing agency keeps better time schedules. British Parliament is studying how to do it like us.

The 8 ton engine on X-47B is only for the demonstrator model just like Neuron's 4 ton engine. Neuron will be upgraded with a 8 ton engine much later.
So what engine is going on the final production? We already know what is going on ours.

It would be funny if we managed to induct a superior aircraft to the Neuron, not...
It would be funny if you ever induct anything, it seems as if everything is on permanent hold.
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,017
Well. I have nothing more to say Armand. Perhaps you can claim France is a superpower now and get it over with.

Most of your technology has had American, British, Italian, Spanish and German input. Russia finds it cheaper to source electronics from France without having to start a development cycle for it. I will agree Terrible is state of the art, but I wouldn't throw out the Borei simply. The difference may be quite like France's state of the art, next generation Rafale compared to Russia's state of the art, next gen PAKFA.

As for DRDO, they have plenty of shortcomings. But considering DRDO has JVs with all the above mentioned countries including France, the future is not black.
 

Godless-Kafir

DFI Buddha
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
5,842
Likes
1,837
Country flag
Well. I have nothing more to say Armand. Perhaps you can claim France is a superpower now and get it over with.

Most of your technology has had American, British, Italian, Spanish and German input. Russia finds it cheaper to source electronics from France without having to start a development cycle for it. I will agree Terrible is state of the art, but I wouldn't throw out the Borei simply. The difference may be quite like France's state of the art, next generation Rafale compared to Russia's state of the art, next gen PAKFA.

As for DRDO, they have plenty of shortcomings. But considering DRDO has JVs with all the above mentioned countries including France, the future is not black.
France is a super power didnt you know? How come we never knew that... is it because its not? lol
 
Last edited:

Immanuel

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
3,604
Likes
7,573
Country flag
Neuron is just another copy of the Boeing UCAV, Neuron is nothing particularly significant.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top