Combat Aircraft technology and Evolution

[smestarz]

IAF won't give up fully operation Mirage which have been upgraded at significant cost. These are fully operational fighters with considerable amount of flight time left with them. Situation is too dire to relieve them.

And no Mig-27 will serve beyond 2019, so not really an option.

We might transfer Jaguars. Vacant space can be filled with new HAL made Jaguars.

I know, but then the last of the upgraded Mirage 2000 will come more than 15 years later.. outdated for us.
Are we really going to face the likes of China and pakistan with 4 decade old plane with 5 decade old tech?

Jaguars are not fighters, but deep strike planes. But yes, recently there was talk to modify HAWK as MRCA (with ability to mount and use A2A and A2G weapons and this might be PERFECT. These hawks will be cheap and maybe cheaper than Tejas. They wont be cutting edge but also ensure that Sri lankan defence fund does not explode

 

[garg_bharat]

What? Hawk as MRCA?

Armed Hawk is a harebrained scheme of HAL which is unlikely to get anywhere.

This is Modi's india. Government is not stupid.

 

[garg_bharat]

WHy do we need hawk for sri Lanka when we have su30? Two airbases in Tamil Nadu are getting Su30.

However I do not expect a war in this area.

 

[Rahul Singh]

^^^^ Hawk for Sri Lanka is not to fight with but to sell to as a replacement for SLAF's Kfir fighters.

 

[garg_bharat]

^^^^ Hawk for Sri Lanka is not to fight with but to sell to as a replacement for SLAF's Kfir fighters.

Used and refurbished Mig-27 is available for less than 5M. A weaponized Hawk will cost 25M. If you think Sri Lanka is crazy like India, then your logic is fine.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Tejas are way better than Mirage 2000 even when Mirage have latest upgrades. Mirage 2000 RDY vs AESA for Tejas.. Its a no brainer.. Wonder why when some french members say that Mirage 2000 is superior to F-16, why does UAE want to keep its F-16 Block 60 and want to sell their Mirage 2000-9 which are considered one of the best and modern Mirage 2000 variant?

UAE uses both F-16 and Mirage 2000 and when they want to sell their Mirage 2000 that should suggest a lot.

They are making space for Rafale. It's other thing that they don't intend to fight.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Used and refurbished Mig-27 is available for less than 5M. A weaponized Hawk will cost 25M. If you think Sri Lanka is crazy like India, then your logic is fine.

They are looking to replace Kfir fighters for which a refurbished Mig-27 is not exactly a replacement. All talks regarding Hawks or Jaguar is for stop gap till Tejas can be delivered. It is however other thing that Sri Lanka don't really need fighter jets. Neither Maldives can nor we intend to invad them anytime in future.

 

[BON PLAN]

Tejas are way better than Mirage 2000 even when Mirage have latest upgrades. Mirage 2000 RDY vs AESA for Tejas.. Its a no brainer.. Wonder why when some french members say that Mirage 2000 is superior to F-16, why does UAE want to keep its F-16 Block 60 and want to sell their Mirage 2000-9 which are considered one of the best and modern Mirage 2000 variant?

UAE uses both F-16 and Mirage 2000 and when they want to sell their Mirage 2000 that should suggest a lot.

Where have you read UAE want to sell its Mirage 2000 ? Haven't you forgot one news? ....

They think to give 10 to 12 Mirage (on 60) to Irak to fight against terrorists.

They can't do that with F16, because US are less flexible than french.

And it 's a way to open the door to your lovely pretty fighter : R A F A L E .

 

[smestarz]

They are making space for Rafale. It's other thing that they don't intend to fight.

With all the various planes India is making and will buy, Rafale is not really part of the purchase plan.
Buying an older 4h Gen plane, when a 5th Gen plane is sheer stupidity, and thank god , we dont have a congress govt. The things for Co-operation with Russians for PAKFA has already started.
As of now, we have possibily more Su-30 MKI than the PLAAF, and surely PLAAF will not be risking war with India not till they have J-20 in numbers

Rather recently there was on different idea as to how to handle the two front scenario (not planned at the top level) the idea is revolutionary for an air force, but its actually based on VERY OLD Army plan..

Ten there is the simple and non complicated plan of Putting the Su-30 MKI against the chinese and MiG-29 and MiG-29K against pakistan.and maybe squadron or two of Su-30 MKI to ensure taht PAF is destroyed in the frist two days of war.

 

[smestarz]

Where have you read UAE want to sell its Mirage 2000 ? Haven't you forgot one news? ....

They think to give 10 to 12 Mirage (on 60) to Irak to fight against terrorists.

They can't do that with F16, because US are less flexible than french.

And it 's a way to open the door to your lovely pretty fighter : R A F A L E .

It is a very well known news, you dont know it/?
UAE wants to sell of its Mirage 2000-9, And earlier what UAE wanted to do was sort of a buy back,. UK which was interested to sell Eurofighters was even considering to buy the UAE Mirrages in order to affect the sales. But then it just collapsed. On other hand, since Raflae and Mirage are both French, and france still uses Mirage 2000 so it was thought that France is in ideal position to sell Rafales (and buy the Mirage 2000 bacl) France wanted to sell these planes to India. You can do the researc, there are lot of links about UAE wanting to sell its Mirage 2000 sot that it can make space for buying new plane.

 

[smestarz]

Used and refurbished Mig-27 is available for less than 5M. A weaponized Hawk will cost 25M. If you think Sri Lanka is crazy like India, then your logic is fine.

Refurbished MiG-27 will make a good sense for Sri Lanka or even Afghanistan. But also how much life is expected? Also for HAWK, we would not be able to sell it, we might need permission from the british.

 

[BON PLAN]

It is a very well known news, you dont know it/?
UAE wants to sell of its Mirage 2000-9, And earlier what UAE wanted to do was sort of a buy back,. UK which was interested to sell Eurofighters was even considering to buy the UAE Mirrages in order to affect the sales. But then it just collapsed. On other hand, since Raflae and Mirage are both French, and france still uses Mirage 2000 so it was thought that France is in ideal position to sell Rafales (and buy the Mirage 2000 bacl) France wanted to sell these planes to India. You can do the researc, there are lot of links about UAE wanting to sell its Mirage 2000 sot that it can make space for buying new plane.

You are mixing news so as to adjust it to want you think. It's not the truth.

First Truth was that UAE wanted Dassault to take back Mirage 2000 in a Rafale sell exchange. But They want a too high price. Deal failed.

Second UAE tried to do the same with EF consortium. It failed also on technical reason (EF not suitable for UAE) and support issue of these Mirage (Dassault saying " do what you want with it. I will not support them anyway". Normal against a fierce competitor ! )

Third, and it's now, UAE think about a sell or a donate of 10 ou 12 Mirage to Irak. With the accord of Dassault, probably with a Rafale sell in bargainng.

This is THE truth. Not YOUR truth.

 

[smestarz]

You are mixing news so as to adjust it to want you think. It's not the truth.

First Truth was that UAE wanted Dassault to take back Mirage 2000 in a Rafale sell exchange. But They want a too high price. Deal failed.

Second UAE tried to do the same with EF consortium. It failed also on technical reason (EF not suitable for UAE) and support issue of these Mirage (Dassault saying " do what you want with it. I will not support them anyway". Normal against a fierce competitor ! )

Third, and it's now, UAE think about a sell or a donate of 10 ou 12 Mirage to Irak. With the accord of Dassault, probably with a Rafale sell in bargainng.

This is THE truth. Not YOUR truth.

Why does UAE want to give back a plane which you claim is supieror to F-16 ? And still keep buying and using F-16 ?

UAE wants a twin engine plane, and since they want to get rid of them, one of the conditions they asked Dassault / France and also other potential sellers that they want to give the Mirage 2000 and buy the new planes in lieu of it and so the prices have to be adjusted.

Now since Dassault being the original producer of Mirage and France being user, that was the best bet for Egypt, so france could take these back and use them and sell rafale to UAE. Now the price evaluation of UAE does match the price evaluation by Dassault (Indian upgrade price shows that) but then the French being opportunistic and knowing that Mirage 2000 is utterly useless for them, did not consider it, France did however try to get India and some other countries interested in the UAE Mirage 2000-9, but then since India wanted to buy MMRCA so the idea was rejected by India. UAE is also considreing to selling them to some other countries also. So, till the point UAE does not get rid of their Mirage 2000-9 they wont be buying a twin engine MRCA.

UAE did ask Eurofighter consortium for the same, but what are they going to do with Mirage 2000 ?

UAE is mulling to sell to Iraq thats true, but the idea behind UAE wanting Rafales was only if French would have purchased the Mirage 2000-9 back, but since they did not, its still an open market.

There are few points about UAE that you should know. UAE is one of the smartest country in middle east,
They gave priority to Frane to get rid of their useless Mirage 2000-9, but since it did not work, they asked the same of Eurofighter consortium, and the moment they give off these plane, there is good chance that UAE will be ordering from USA. yes you heard it right.

UAE does realise that having good spare management is important, and America is one of the most reliable in terms of spares. So the priority for UAE will be USA.. Eurofighter (since Saudi uses them and have stocks of weapons for it) and then Finally France.. In UAE there was some talk of they being interested in Su-35, but thats just rumour, they will not go for having circus of different planes from different countries..

And this is the FACT FOR YOU.. Being a french does not mean you speak truth..

 

[smestarz]

Where have you read UAE want to sell its Mirage 2000 ? Haven't you forgot one news? ....

They think to give 10 to 12 Mirage (on 60) to Irak to fight against terrorists.

They can't do that with F16, because US are less flexible than french.

And it 's a way to open the door to your lovely pretty fighter : R A F A L E .

The fact is UAE just wants to get rid of Mirage 2000, UAE has two main fighters.. F-16 and Mirage 2000.
They never talked of giving F-16 to USA and going for other planes, They particularly want to get rid of Mirage 2000-9 either give back to France, or at best to protect its own northern flank and give it to Iraq for using.
As I said before that F-16 is more capable than Mirage 2000 and specially when a user like UAE which uses both, and then opts to get rid of Mirage 2000-9 that should say something..
And offering to buy the planes thats the Carrot,

 

[BON PLAN]

Why does UAE want to give back a plane which you claim is supieror to F-16 ? And still keep buying and using F-16 ?

UAE wants a twin engine plane, and since they want to get rid of them, one of the conditions they asked Dassault / France and also other potential sellers that they want to give the Mirage 2000 and buy the new planes in lieu of it and so the prices have to be adjusted.

Now since Dassault being the original producer of Mirage and France being user, that was the best bet for Egypt, so france could take these back and use them and sell rafale to UAE. Now the price evaluation of UAE does match the price evaluation by Dassault (Indian upgrade price shows that) but then the French being opportunistic and knowing that Mirage 2000 is utterly useless for them, did not consider it, France did however try to get India and some other countries interested in the UAE Mirage 2000-9, but then since India wanted to buy MMRCA so the idea was rejected by India. UAE is also considreing to selling them to some other countries also. So, till the point UAE does not get rid of their Mirage 2000-9 they wont be buying a twin engine MRCA.

UAE did ask Eurofighter consortium for the same, but what are they going to do with Mirage 2000 ?

UAE is mulling to sell to Iraq thats true, but the idea behind UAE wanting Rafales was only if French would have purchased the Mirage 2000-9 back, but since they did not, its still an open market.

There are few points about UAE that you should know. UAE is one of the smartest country in middle east,
They gave priority to Frane to get rid of their useless Mirage 2000-9, but since it did not work, they asked the same of Eurofighter consortium, and the moment they give off these plane, there is good chance that UAE will be ordering from USA. yes you heard it right.

UAE does realise that having good spare management is important, and America is one of the most reliable in terms of spares. So the priority for UAE will be USA.. Eurofighter (since Saudi uses them and have stocks of weapons for it) and then Finally France.. In UAE there was some talk of they being interested in Su-35, but thats just rumour, they will not go for having circus of different planes from different countries..

And this is the FACT FOR YOU.. Being a french does not mean you speak truth..

If they want a twin engine, and they have all the money for, why not choosing F15 instead of a ultime block of F16 ?

Mirage 2000-9 is the more modern version of Mirage. Why UAE deoesn't used F16 in Lybia in 2011?

US reliable in spare management? Sure it is. But only if and when you agree with the political line of US. If not : no more spare.... France is more flexible. And India knows that (Kargil).

 

[BON PLAN]

The fact is UAE just wants to get rid of Mirage 2000, UAE has two main fighters.. F-16 and Mirage 2000.
They never talked of giving F-16 to USA and going for other planes, They particularly want to get rid of Mirage 2000-9 either give back to France, or at best to protect its own northern flank and give it to Iraq for using.
As I said before that F-16 is more capable than Mirage 2000 and specially when a user like UAE which uses both, and then opts to get rid of Mirage 2000-9 that should say something..
And offering to buy the planes thats the Carrot,

In the equation you forget a half Mirage was not new. If you want to renew your fleet, to begin with older fleet.... Just logic my dear.

 

[BON PLAN]

Stealthier MK2 is ok, but should not be at the cost of maneuverability.
Also I might suggest targeting pod internal and just below the nose

Your dream in fact : a TejaF22
A dose of Mirage 2000, a dose of F35, a dose of F22, ....

But don't forget it's a light plane. A targeting pod is heavy, and to put it internally will increase the weight even in AtoA role. not good for T/W ratio.

 

[smestarz]

If they want a twin engine, and they have all the money for, why not choosing F15 instead of a ultime block of F16 ?

Mirage 2000-9 is the more modern version of Mirage. Why UAE deoesn't used F16 in Lybia in 2011?

US reliable in spare management? Sure it is. But only if and when you agree with the political line of US. If not : no more spare.... France is more flexible. And India knows that (Kargil).

F-16 fitted with their requirement, after all they wanted the F-16 Block 60 to replace the french junk they have .. Mirage 2000-9, but unfortunately everyone knows its junk now, not even the French want it.

UAE always is looking for planes that can counter Iran, Mirage 2000 does not have the range and load to take on Iran, with Geographical position of UAE, Mirage 2000 is at preset an interceptor, it cannot face the F-14 that Iran uses.

USA is very clear about their polices, french are not really not sure of their own policy and they define this undecideness as Flexible, They were flexible when the Americans told them to stop deliveries of Mistraal almost till a week before it was cancelled, the French were very sure to deliver the Mistrals.

So,let us not talk about how reliable the French. When USA eyes France, France just folls over and plays dead like a good doggie.

 

[smestarz]

Your dream in fact : a TejaF22
A dose of Mirage 2000, a dose of F35, a dose of F22, ....

But don't forget it's a light plane. A targeting pod is heavy, and to put it internally will increase the weight even in AtoA role. not good for T/W ratio.

Tejas is Tejas, we dont want it to be like some other plane, It creates its own history.. All the planes from Mirage III to Rafale are just same design recyvled again and again and again.
When the need be there it will slaps Rafales butt and send it home,

 

[smestarz]

In the equation you forget a half Mirage was not new. If you want to renew your fleet, to begin with older fleet.... Just logic my dear.

Junk is a junk and UAE are trying to get rid of their french junk..