China-Vietnam War (1979~1989)

[Adux]

too late, China already got all the resourses. if u want resourse , u must pay a lot. LOL
BTW, the oil from SCS can only ship to China.LOL

Hey Chicom,

What the fvck is with the LOL, is it your over compensation for tiny **** syndrome? or you cant open your eyes?
Nope, India will take the oil in South China Sea, and ship it back home, you are not going to do jack shit! Want to bet?

 

[Ray]

too late, China already got all the resourses. if u want resourse , u must pay a lot. LOL
BTW, the oil from SCS can only ship to China.LOL

By your claiming what you are claiming, it need not be the reality even if it gives you Dutch courage.

Hakuna Matata!

 

[photoshop_vn]

Vietnamese invasion to Cambodia, are mostly not provoked by Cambodia invasion, the same reason Vietnam not like a war with China, but invited by Hun Sen, at that time Khmer Rouge was busy with a culture revolution style movement in side Cambodia, but the students did even too much than their teacher.

In Hun Sen's memoir, he recalls how disapointed he was when many times Vietnamese leaders kept refusing his request for help to overthrow Pol Pot regime. They still hoped for a peace negotiation with Khmer Rouge. But the massacres in early 1978 changed their opinion.

Nowadays, looking at what is happening in Libya, I hope some days the world will remember that the UN, US and China did act very much differently with Khmer Rouge. And like someone said, bloodshed of Vietnamese troops was not caused only by the Khmer Rouge, but also by the UN, US and China.

 

[aikido_man]

More than other peoples, we - Vietnamese, understand how priceless the peace is, cos' we had experienced so many previous wars with 2 big Boss " France" with Dien Bien Phu Great Victory and "America" with 30-4-1975 Victory.

At 1979, Vietnamese are so tired of war, Vietnamese only want to be live in peace. Don't misunderstand that we are the bloody peoples, we fighted against the Chinese cos we are forced to do so and we invade the Cambodia just to drive back their invasion into our homeland.

Have you ever asked that in this world there are many highly developed nations, but no nations at this time come to save Cambodia from "Race Extermination", millions of innocent Cambodian were killed in a place so called "killing field", ( I wonder where is United Nations ???? ) except for the underdeveloped neighbor Vietnam.

I know there will be many other reasons for this action of Vietnam but what they did to save Cambodia should be recognized and respected...

 

[Ray]

Khmer Rouge had the support of China and also of King Norodom Sihanouk

King Sihanouk chose to support the Khmer Rouge. Sihanouk's support was the engine that sparked the explosive growth of the Khmer Rouge. And Sihanouk was a pro Chinese King.

Sihanouk and China proved to be an explosive chemistry that gave rise to the blood thirsty maniac Pol Pot.

There was good reasons for China to foist Pol Pot?

 

[Ray]

In My War with the CIA , which was Sihanouk's first memoir, he refers to the repression of the left during his own regime as the work of "Lon Nol's raiding expeditions."

He also attempts to explain away his public statements regarding the leftists: "To throw my own dissenters - rightists such as Lon Nol - off the track, I occasionally made speeches attacking the Vietminh, Vietcong and Khmers Rouges. The first two realized that the main thing was my unswerving political, diplomatic and material support of their resistance struggle. But I did not know at the time that the Khmers Rouges had also understood this. The proof was their immediate acceptance of the alliance for resistance in 1970."

the real reason the Khmer Rouge immediately accepted his "alliance" was that they, like the Prince, understood the value of a marriage of expediancy. The Prince's name gave their movement a legitimacy that it would otherwise have lacked.

Still, although My War is very obviously a book with an agenda, there are times when Sihanouk's comments seem precisely on-target, as when he discusses Richard Nixon's comments on the invasion of Cambodia:

"President Nixon has explained that the 341 million dollars spent annually in the officially-approved slaughter of Cambodians is 'the best investment in foreign assistance that the United States has made in my political life'. Because of the 'success' of the Cambodian operation, 'US casualties have been cut by two thirds, a hundred thousand Americans have come home and more are doing so'. In other words, Lon Nol and Sirik Matak, by allowing Nixon to export the fighting from South Vietnam to Cambodia - to substitute Cambodian for American and South Vietnamese corpses - have rendered a valuable service, for which 341 million dollars is a reasonable annual reimbursement!"

Sihanouk goes on to quote George McGovern's rather astute assessment of the so-called "Nixon Doctrine": "We pay them for killing each other while we reduce our own forces."

From time to time there are telling glimpses into Sihanouk's true beliefs. Sihanouk notes that during the early Fifties he feared that "the Vietminh were fighting only to replace the French as masters in Cambodia." Having aligned himself with the Communists at the time of the book's publication, he naturally disavows this belief.

 

[coccafedang]

I found a point of view about the VN-China relationship at the time 1975-1979 of a very famous US diplomat - Henry Kissinger, in which the author described in detail the efforts of China to isolate VN and convinced the world that a "vilolent lesson" for VN was nessesaty...
Something maybe right, something maybe not, but I guess we have some interest informations...
http://viet-studies.info/kinhte/Kissinger_OnChina_Vietnam.pdf

 

[Ray]

I found a point of view about the VN-China relationship at the time 1975-1979 of a very famous US diplomat - Henry Kissinger, in which the author described in detail the efforts of China to isolate VN and convinced the world that a "vilolent lesson" for VN was nessesaty...
Something maybe right, something maybe not, but I guess we have some interest informations...
http://viet-studies.info/kinhte/Kissinger_OnChina_Vietnam.pdf

Can we have your and the Chinese friends comments here:

http://defenceforumindia.com/intern...ho-more-responsible-khmer-rouge-us-china.html

 

[coccafedang]

@to you all:
We VN, you Chinese, you Indian... I know, we are all patriots. And I know that no one of us like hearing bad recognition of our country's history. But, you know, no one of us agree completely with our leader's policy in the past, no one satisfy with one-way informations from our goverments. That's the reason why we joined this forum and this topic. And I hope that we will share our informations and point of view with the respect, openess... And thank you all for that...
@ to DMF:
I am very sorry about my mistake... (I occasionally I am wrong between Zhou Enlai and Xiaoping). In 24-9-1975, Le Duan came to Beijing to meet Mao, but he didn't welcome Le Duan, said that he was tired, Mao died one year later. Duan had a meeting with Dong Xiaoping, in that meeting Le Duan referred about Khmer invasion of Tho Chu island and Phu Quoc island, and the sovereignty of VN in Paracel Island... Dong ignored those, and prompted VN about social and economic reforms, the rights of Chinese Vietnamese... That meeting had no result.
In April, 1977, Pham Van Dong came to Beijing again, to meet Dong Xiaoping... We was'nt welcomed by Dong, too. Pham Van Dong gave a message to Dong about the invasion of Khmer Rouge, and again the sovereignty of VN in Paracel Island. Dong did not answer. He said he was very unpleasant with Le Duan, and said that problem was not valuable to negotiate....

I would like to give you some ancient proverb of Vietnamese:
- "Sell away brothers, buy near neighborings"
- "Away water can not save near fire"...
That's the VN point of view in relationship, it's very intersting to think twice...

You said "China gained a lot from this war, but the pity is that the Soviet collapsed too early, if it can last for another 10years, China will be in a much better situation." I completely agree with you this this point. Actualy, some countries had a lot of benefits from the wars of VN, like Thailand, Phillipines and especialy South Korea, it's sad, but it's true.

And I agree with you "China touched the stones, Vietnam step on, we are now on the same way". Yes, as I said, VN learnt a lot of Chinese way of growing economy and metropolis managements.

Go on guys!

 

[asianobserve]

In Hun Sen's memoir, he recalls how disapointed he was when many times Vietnamese leaders kept refusing his request for help to overthrow Pol Pot regime. They still hoped for a peace negotiation with Khmer Rouge. But the massacres in early 1978 changed their opinion.

Nowadays, looking at what is happening in Libya, I hope some days the world will remember that the UN, US and China did act very much differently with Khmer Rouge. And like someone said, bloodshed of Vietnamese troops was not caused only by the Khmer Rouge, but also by the UN, US and China.

And USSR, India .......and Nauru. Because they did not act too.

 

[niceguy2011]

Hey Chicom,

What the fvck is with the LOL, is it your over compensation for tiny **** syndrome? or you cant open your eyes?
Nope, India will take the oil in South China Sea, and ship it back home, you are not going to do jack shit! Want to bet?

when? How?let me know then.LOL

 

[photoshop_vn]

And USSR, India .......and Nauru. Because they did not act too.

They didn't recognize Pol Pot regime, or try to raise a an embargo against Vietnam, or send weapons to Khmer Rouge and train its soldiers. At least that made them different.

And it's a sad story for me, as Khmer Rouge got support from some ASEAN countries, too.

 

[amoy]

hi @photoshop_vn
My wild guess is that u didn't get the smell of sarcasm fm @asian observe. He/she probably tries to express that blaming others is always easy

 

[niceguy2011]

By your claiming what you are claiming, it need not be the reality even if it gives you Dutch courage.

Hakuna Matata!

be reality? LOL
let me tell u, for example,oil.
form 1978-1999, when is China start to rise ,the oil price is $20 for 20 years and reached $40 at 2004. how about now?LOL
China catch the last bus and we use those resources to build a completely foundation of our industry cheaply and earn enough cash from export.
If india try to do the some thing. do u know what is the price for it ? Can u balance your account after you spend ur time?
same to viet.LOL

 

[Ray]

I am sure you know the real value of your currency and how it is kept depressed.

In Communist China everything is possible depending upon the desire of the Chairman, call him by any euphemism you desire.

 

[Adux]

when? How?let me know then.LOL

Like this little man

http://defenceforumindia.com/china-...-offensive-says-south-china-9.html#post326854

 

[niceguy2011]

Like this little man

http://defenceforumindia.com/china-...-offensive-says-south-china-9.html#post326854

u cant see the result?
india did nothing. (or india did talking.)
GOI is not stupid as some members here ..LOL

 

[DMF]

Happen to see one article in other forum, talked some thing about the Indochina war. Here are some statistics:
1. In VN. French war, China was the only one to support VN. Totally give VN all kind of guns 116000pcs, artilleries all kinds total 4630sets, China sent total 320000 men into VN.
2. Zhou enlai visited Hanoi Oct1964, agreed if USA not across the 17 degree line, China send troop into VN only for anti air operations, if USA across 17 degree north altitude line, China will have a Korea style war with them. On 9th Jun1965, the first group PLA was sent into VN. China sent this message to USA through UK, to advice where the bottom line was. China side, 2153 air battles were fought, suffered 1100death, 4200 injury. China volunteer arm built new rail way in VN 117km, and rebuilt old track 363km, also sent into VN Chinese communication, logistic, road building ,land mime clearing troops. Total material sent to VN USD20 Billion(at that time). China troops all return back to China in July 1970.
3. At begin of the was, Chairman Mao want to export communism to all SEA countries, want to "liberate all the depressed people", firmly oppose VN negotiate with UAS. Latter, after Nixon visited China, China then advised VN to stop the war. China want to cooperate with USA,but VN want to united the South, problems begin.
4. after China and Soviet broke up, China wished VN not to get too close to the Soviet, but due to historical and many reasons, VN actually prefer Soviet than China, showed a double- face, with China. for example, any discussions between China and VN, Cambodia and Lao leaders, the Soviet get a detailed report. Now Russ have 77 records of such summit discussions already deciphered.
5. Mao had the main influence over the VN and China relation ship, when his ideology changed, would change the relation. But Deng Xiaoping always disliked Vietcong since the beginning. Mao was right, Deng was a Capitalists hide in the communists, he eventually went to the USA. Communism finished by him.
6. VN the only winner of the war, China, Soviet and USA all losers.

 

[coccafedang]

Back already after several day working to earn money to feed me and my family, yeah, b4 talking about big things, we should do small and essential thing for our lives, you know...
@DMF:
Agreed with you in 1,2,3,4,5... oh, infact, number 3 is one of the reason that made number 4...
The leader of Ha Noi in 1972 noticed a bitter truth: the super power nation was bargaining on VN's back!
In number 5, I like Deng and his ideology of developing country: communist in Policy=stability, capitalist in economy= flexibility. That was a great formular...
In number 6: I guess you are wrong, cos:
- USA was the winner in isolating VN, embagoing VN
- China was winner in "bleeding VN", making VN weak, low developed
- Soviet was winner in influence in VN

 

[DMF]

Back already after several day working to earn money to feed me and my family, yeah, b4 talking about big things, we should do small and essential thing for our lives, you know...
@DMF:
Agreed with you in 1,2,3,4,5... oh, infact, number 3 is one of the reason that made number 4...
The leader of Ha Noi in 1972 noticed a bitter truth: the super power nation was bargaining on VN's back!
In number 5, I like Deng and his ideology of developing country: communist in Policy=stability, capitalist in economy= flexibility. That was a great formular...
In number 6: I guess you are wrong, cos:
- USA was the winner in isolating VN, embagoing VN
- China was winner in "bleeding VN", making VN weak, low developed
- Soviet was winner in influence in VN

The USA was the big loser at that time, directly defeated in the was, lost the south VN, failed to protect his allies in South east Aisa, also at home the financial situation became bad, before the USA had more than half productive capacity of the whole world, and guaranteed USD35 can buy one ounce gold from the U.S treasury, after the war, all these were gone.
China also loser, the war between NV can tell you this point.
Soviet a winner at the first, then the Soviet dissolved, all efforts lost.
VN reached the target to unite the south, become a united country, this is a big victory, so you are the only winner.
I only know few days ago, that Mao not support your unification after Nixon visited China, you see, we are told what the Government like us to know, I think you also do not know that China had sent anti air and engineering troops to VN to help you fought the war.