China Military News & Updates

[Kshithij]

And that's how much km? 150km
weishi rockets are deployed already 300+ km range

Rockets, guided ones, have CEP of circular 1-1.5% range. Unguided ones have 2-3% range. So, at 200km, the rockets would be falling at a circle of radius 3km even for guided rocket. This is a hopeless idea. Please don't speak of such notion.

@bengalraider apart from this, just look at the time frame when it was done. During cold war an EMP burst would have brought down an aircraft.
When India fielded Mirage in initial years, it was much touted as nuclear capable. But all knew the fact that if something like that have to be done, then it would have been a one way trip for it. Even Enola Gay was specially coated and had hardened electronics to carry out Hiroshima raid.
But now a days, every other aircraft is able to deliver nuclear payload, means they are hardened enough to withstand an EMP blast of any such SAM. So IMO nuclear SAM is not a viable option now. But it may be for someone like Pakistan who would even dream of nuclear health drink for their forces.

Nuclear SAM is to ensure guaranteed destruction of incoming missile. No SAM is 100% accurate. Nuclear SAM ensures that even a medium distance of miss is covered up by nuclear detonation. EMP is just exaggerated. We have videos of nuke going over people's head - 2kt at 3km altitude with people and cameraman directly below to convince public that they are harmless!

 

[Screambowl]

Rockets, guided ones, have CEP of circular 1-1.5% range. Unguided ones have 2-3% range. So, at 200km, the rockets would be falling at a circle of radius 3km even for guided rocket. This is a hopeless idea. Please don't speak of such notion.

That's not the point
Chinese can fit anything on the tip ..
so at 200km it's will have 30m cep.

Those are built only to create saturation in large area 2square kms and such in case of large skirmish. Which will fulfil the purpose of giving cover.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Technically, At that far range a 300mm warhead will reduce to 120mm mortar round`s effectiveness ..

In terms of tactics and way of employing, you have elaborated well ..

That's not the point
Chinese can fit anything on the tip ..
so at 200km it's will have 30m cep.

Those are built only to create saturation in large area 2square kms and such in case of large skirmish. Which will fulfil the purpose of giving cover.

 

[Chinmoy]

And that's how much km? 150km
weishi rockets are deployed already 300+ km range

Lets have a look at the specs of both the system.
Prahar WS-2
Length
7.3 mtr 7.3mtr
Calibre
420mm 400mm
Weight
1285kg 1285kg
Warhead
200kg 200kg
CEP
<10mtr at 150km ~600mtr at 200 km












Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prahaar_(missile)
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/ws2.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/ws2.htm
Now have a look at the dimension of both and just think on the advertised range. It is also been CLAIMED that WS-2 could cover 350 km. Now just think yourself how much reliable the quoted range is what would be the devastation at 200km.

 

[Screambowl]

Lets have a look at the specs of both the system.

Prahar WS-2
Length : 7.3 mtr 7.3 mtr
Calibre: 420mm 400 mm
Weight: 1285 kg 1285 kg
Warhead: 200 kg 200 kg
CEP: <10 mtr at 150km ~600 mtr at 200km

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prahaar_(missile)
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/ws2.htm
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/ws2.htm
Now have a look at the dimension of both and just think on the advertised range. It is also been CLAIMED that WS-2 could cover 350 km. Now just think yourself how much reliable the quoted range is what would be the devastation at 200km.

The purpose of Chinese rocket arty is not the accuracy or target hunting. It is to create the saturation effect. Just imagine them falling anywhere on the cities.

How and where are you suppose to retaliate?

 

[Kshithij]

The purpose of Chinese rocket arty is not the accuracy or target hunting. It is to create the saturation effect. Just imagine them falling anywhere on the cities.

How and where are you suppose to retaliate?

That saturation is not significant unless a city is targeted. You haven't seen rural areas. In rural areas, your bombs will fall on random field, forest. Don't forget that 65% population is in rural area.

Also, nuke can't be effective in such foolish firing. Nukes have to be detonated in the air at certain height to have maximum damage. The height depends in the yield of nuke. Since, rockets can't be made that reliable to detonate in the air, its utilities to carry nuke will be minimal. A nuke on the ground level means a very tiny effect as the ground, structures, trees nearby simply obstructs the blast from spreading.

Without accuracy, nukes mean nothing. A single cyclone releases 20-30 Giga Tons of energy and yet cities and rural areas survive. Nukes too cause destruction by the same shockwave causing huge wind speeds. The heat energy is pretty minimum and easily gets dispersed at a few hindred metres to a kilometres. Don't give too much importance to the media hype on nukes

 

[Chinmoy]

Nuclear SAM is to ensure guaranteed destruction of incoming missile. No SAM is 100% accurate. Nuclear SAM ensures that even a medium distance of miss is covered up by nuclear detonation. EMP is just exaggerated. We have videos of nuke going over people's head - 2kt at 3km altitude with people and cameraman directly below to convince public that they are harmless!

There is a difference between SAM and BMD. When you coin the term SAM, then it means its kill probability is higher then any BMD.

In today's scenario, even the warheads does have enough hardened electronics to withstand nuclear blast in vicinity. Why you think even US and Russia had withdrawn their nuclear tipped BMD?

Standing in vicinity of a nuclear blast for advertisement is one thing and taking the after precaution is another thing. No one had shown the after precaution these cameraman and crew had taken in the ad I believe. If you want to know it, then have a look at some of the miscalculated disasters which US Navy faced during the trial of nuclear blasts.

 

[Screambowl]

That saturation is not significant unless a city is targeted. You haven't seen rural areas. In rural areas, your bombs will fall on random field, forest. Don't forget that 65% population is in rural area

The point is they can hit and there will be causality. The India cities are not 500 kms away from LAC. So one has to not think too deeply.
During WW2 when V1 V2 were used they were falling over cities. And that was 80 years old technology. Now they are much more accurate.

The Chinese PLA deploys weishi arty to slow down the activity of enemy and to give cover to their own forces as I have mentioned above.

 

[Chinmoy]

The purpose of Chinese rocket arty is not the accuracy or target hunting. It is to create the saturation effect. Just imagine them falling anywhere on the cities.

How and where are you suppose to retaliate?

Just compare both the system and based on that think on the range.

 

[Chinmoy]

No that's not very valid

Any EMP pulse would immediately bring down radio communication and other radio instruments on any aircraft within seconds and there will be completely blackout

It would not. That is the very concept of electronics hardening. You don't use a aircraft to deliver nuclear weapon unless it is able to withstand the after effect.

 

[Screambowl]

CEP
<10mtr at 150km ~600mtr at 200 km

Depends for which WS2 version it is.
They have tipped the WS2C and WS2D with GPS

 

[Screambowl]

It would not. That is the very concept of electronics hardening. You don't use a aircraft to deliver nuclear weapon unless it is able to withstand the after effect.

The radar will stop functioning as the EMP will induce more current into the power electronics of the array. Because the penetration of the radome is mutual and this is why radar is able to function. But then it is a calculated measure already incorporated while developing a defence grade radar which can withstand more induced current and converts it into eddy currents and heat.

If you have a microwave oven try putting a metal plate inside and observe it. But immediately stop it within 6-7 seconds.

 

[Chinmoy]

Depends for which WS2 version it is.
They have tipped the WS2C and WS2D with GPS

GPS makes the system accurate, but not accurate enough to bring down a CEP from 3 digit to single digit.

 

[Screambowl]

GPS makes the system accurate, but not accurate enough to bring down a CEP from 3 digit to single digit.

High accuracy is not required for any arty ... I am repeatedly saying it is just used as a cluster to give cover

 

[Chinmoy]

The radar will stop functioning as the EMP will induce more current into the power electronics of the array. Because the penetration of the radome is mutual and this is why radar is able to function. But then it is a calculated measure already incorporated while developing a defence grade radar which can withstand more induced current and converts it into eddy currents and heat.

If you have a microwave oven try putting a metal plate inside and observe it. But immediately stop it within 6-7 seconds.

Does a home based Microwave OTG have hardened electronics? Does the manufacturing of you DTH LNB and that used by a space based LNB is same?

Point is, you have to see what you are targeting. A EMP burst could effect Jaguar, but against hardened electronics of MKI, it would be useless.

 

[Chinmoy]

High accuracy is not required for any arty ... I am repeatedly saying it is just used as a cluster to give cover

And I've already pointed out the facts to look out for in between Prahar and WS-2. You are missing out the whole point there.

 

[Screambowl]

A EMP burst could effect Jaguar, but against hardened electronics of MKI, it would be useless.

Hardened electronics is for the embedded power circuits. Not for the exposed radar.
The Radar will any way will be exposed to any radiation because radar itself is generating EM radiation/wave to reach somewhere.

If the emp burst is more than a particular limit then even the hardened electronics fail.
This is why a satellite is always ejected against the direction facing sun or when it's behind the earth when it has to go the other way round, because a sudden exposure to massive radiation head on has chances of electronics failure.

 

[Chinmoy]

Hardened electronics is for the embedded power circuits. Not for the exposed radar.
The Radar will any way will be exposed to any radiation because radar itself is generating EM radiation/wave to reach somewhere.

If the emp burst is more than a particular limit then even the hardened electronics fail.
This is why a satellite is always ejected against the direction facing sun or when it's behind the earth when it has to go the other way round, because a sudden exposure to massive radiation head on has chances of electronics failure.

Now you are talking. Radar itself would not get fried, but its circuit would be effected. Now this is where the hardening part happens. Its transceiving modules itself would be unaffected.

Now for more then a limited range EMP burst, a nuclear weapon is not good enough. You need dedicated EMP based or DEW system.

 

[shiphone]

errrrr.........

1.WS serial MRLS are Export projects only. we don't think PLA army has chosen any model of this family....there are four MRLS families here, and two of them came from the R&D team Aerospace section, WS serial is one of both.

2. WS-2/3 serial covers the range of 70-400km... with the consistency ： 0.3% of the range(simple control) , 0.1% of the range (Inertial) and Accuracy: CEP 50 meter (combined guidance, normally SINS/GNSS)

PS. ..'0.3% of the range' could be roughly translated to around CEP 600 meter@ 200km range

 

[Kshithij]

errrrr.........

1.WS serial MRLS are Export projects only. we don't think PLA army has chosen any model of this family....there are four MRLS families here, and two of them came from the R&D team Aerospace section, WS serial is one of both.

2. WS-2/3 serial covers the range of 70-400km... with the consistency ： 0.3% of the range(simple control) , 0.1% of the range (Inertial) and Accuracy: CEP 50 meter (combined guidance, normally SINS/GNSS)

PS. ..'0.3% of the range' could be roughly translated to around CEP 600 meter@ 200km range

View attachment 21144 View attachment 21145 View attachment 21146 View attachment 21147 View attachment 21148View attachment 21149 View attachment 21150

I do not think it possible to have rockets that are not missiles to have such accuracy. Either they are missiles or they don't have that much accuracy. Rockets generally means extremely cheap type of missile