China Economy: News & Discussion

[srevster]

Satelite Map of South Asia

Drew Durnil - https://www.youtube.com/drewdurnilSubscribe - https://bit.ly/2TaqRvp

youtube.com

 

[srevster]

 

[srevster]

 

[rockdog]

Look at all the purchasing power of the weeds and plants. It's overflowing demand for EVs so much so that the cars remain parked for over a year and change ownership between different car makers so the EV companies can claim subsidies.

From your previous post, you seems have been China during 2019 and you are from automobile industry right? Did you or your company gained anything from China/World's EV booming last 3 years?

 

[srevster]

future of china: https://youtube.com/shorts/8w1xpv9_te8?feature=share

 

[srevster]

From your previous post, you seems have been China during 2019 and you are from automobile industry right? Did you or your company gained anything from China/World's EV booming last 3 years?

No it was a waste of time. The companies I spoke with didn't understand the concepts and were 5-10 years behind what's happening in the bay area. I went there to do business, but ended up becoming an AI teacher.

 

[rockdog]

No it was a waste of time. The companies I spoke with didn't understand the concepts and were 5-10 years behind what's happening in the bay area. I went there to do business, but ended up becoming an AI teacher.

So you failed to commericalize your product or services both on China and USA in automobile and back to college? If you don't put your stuff into real appliations, how to say it's 10 years ahead? Just in self driving, there are lots of technical paths ...

If you had more cooperative mindset, was there any chance you would gain (or at least survived) something from Chinese EV booming (not "time wasted" as you said)? I heard some USA AI/self driving companies got huge contract from Chinese auto makers.

 

[srevster]

View attachment 200662

So you failed to commericalize your product or services both on China and USA in automobile and back to college? If you don't put your stuff into real appliations, how to say it's 10 years ahead?

If you had more cooperative mindset, was there any chance you would gain (or at least survived) something from Chinese EV booming (not "time wasted" as you said)? I heard some USA AI/self driving companies got huge contract from Chinese auto makers.

Firstly if you have any sense of Chinese law. China doesn't allow foreigners to handle geospatial map data or collect maps in China. China tries to encourage JVs. You have to piggy back on existing license holders of map data in China. You have to move all of your tech to Chinese servers and the map data is air gapped. It was not worth the potential revenue and not worth the trouble to jump through all these hoops, so I told the Chinese partners politely, thanks for the Baijiu, but this is not worth our time.

The Chinese manufacturers didn't really understand approaches to self driving that don't use HD maps because they were 10 years behind on AI tech and relied on antiquated mapping equipment from Leica and Trimble. Maybe it was the rote learning, but the people we were speaking with just didn't understand a path forward where we didn't need their mapping partners. Describing the usage of real time neural chips to create maps on the fly just kept going over their head. Explaining this to them was like pulling nails out of my fingers. They were incapable of understanding this.

https://www.eetimes.com/hd-mapping-friend-or-foe-of-robocars/

We are commercially deployed in North America, Japan, Europe and South East Asia. Essentially all the markets where self driving tech is less regulated and we don't need special licenses for maps. Now we are looking to partner with a couple Indian firms now that the market is maturing there.

 

[srevster]

View attachment 200662

So you failed to commericalize your product or services both on China and USA in automobile and back to college? If you don't put your stuff into real appliations, how to say it's 10 years ahead? Just in self driving, there are lots of technical paths ...

If you had more cooperative mindset, was there any chance you would gain (or at least survived) something from Chinese EV booming (not "time wasted" as you said)? I heard some USA AI/self driving companies got huge contract from Chinese auto makers.

but ended up becoming an AI teacher <-- I don't think you understand my sarcasm.

No American self driving company is operating in China.... None of them got huge contracts in China. They are not able to operate in China. If anything, China sets up shell companies in the bay area to poach local talent and send the IP back to china. Some examples of this are Pony.ai, NIO, etc

All the companies that have JV's, ended up kicking their Chinese counterparts out.

e.g. TuSimple: https://www.reuters.com/business/au...s-removed-chair-ceo-without-cause-2022-10-31/

e.g. Faraday Future: https://pandaily.com/faraday-future-denies-rumors-of-founder-jia-yuetings-return-to-china/

e.g. Arm: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/C...that plan was put,over control of the company.

as you can see, these are all examples of why it is a bad idea to do business with China. There is always a short term rosy period with a long term damage to the American company. I had the foresight to say no.

 

[rockdog]

Firstly if you have any sense of Chinese law. China doesn't allow foreigners to handle geospatial map data or collect maps in China. China tries to encourage JVs. You have to piggy back on existing license holders of map data in China. You have to move all of your tech to Chinese servers and the map data is air gapped. It was not worth the potential revenue and not worth the trouble to jump through all these hoops, so I told the Chinese partners politely, thanks for the Baijiu, but this is not worth our time.

The Chinese manufacturers didn't really understand approaches to self driving that don't use HD maps because they were 10 years behind on AI tech and relied on antiquated mapping equipment from Leica and Trimble. Maybe it was the rote learning, but the people we were speaking with just didn't understand a path forward where we didn't need their mapping partners. Describing the usage of real time neural chips to create maps on the fly just kept going over their head. Explaining this to them was like pulling nails out of my fingers. They were incapable of understanding this.

https://www.eetimes.com/hd-mapping-friend-or-foe-of-robocars/

We are commercially deployed in North America, Japan, Europe and South East Asia. Essentially all the markets where self driving tech is less regulated and we don't need special licenses for maps. Now we are looking to partner with a couple Indian firms now that the market is maturing there.

but ended up becoming an AI teacher <-- I don't think you understand my sarcasm.

No American self driving company is operating in China.... None of them got huge contracts in China. They are not able to operate in China. If anything, China sets up shell companies in the bay area to poach local talent and send the IP back to china. Some examples of this are Pony.ai, NIO, etc

All the companies that have JV's, ended up kicking their Chinese counterparts out.

e.g. TuSimple: https://www.reuters.com/business/au...s-removed-chair-ceo-without-cause-2022-10-31/

e.g. Faraday Future: https://pandaily.com/faraday-future-denies-rumors-of-founder-jia-yuetings-return-to-china/

e.g. Arm: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/In-Depth-How-SoftBank-wrested-back-control-of-Arm-China#:~:text=But that plan was put,over control of the company.

as you can see, these are all examples of why it is a bad idea to do business with China. There is always a short term rosy period with a long term damage to the American company. I had the foresight to say no.

Thanks for the explainations, much better than only posting nonsense and unrelated video and links in the thread.

If by marco definition of self-drving, there are lots of oversea hardware, software compaines gained contracts, and they are still coming to China:

No American self driving company is operating in China.... None of them got huge contracts in China. They are not able to operate in China. If anything, China sets up shell companies in the bay area to poach local talent and send the IP back to china. Some examples of this are Pony.ai, NIO, etc

Li Auto picks Nvidia over Mobileye for newest self-driving cars

Li Auto picks Nvidia over Mobileye for newest self-driving cars · TechNode

Li Auto will be the first automaker to use Nvidia’s newest processor to facilitate highly autonomous driving functions for its EVs.

technode.com

*Mobileeye acutally lost ege, and latest Li Auto are using Chinese chips.


Waymo sets up new driverless vehicle division in China

Waymo sets up new driverless vehicle division in China | Internet of Business

Waymo, the autonomous vehicle division of Google's parent Alphabet, has registered a company in Shanghai called Huimo Business Consulting. As well as being a near homophone for Waymo, ‘Hu?mò’ is Mandarin for ‘emblem’.

internetofbusiness.com

The Chinese manufacturers didn't really understand approaches to self driving that don't use HD maps because they were 10 years behind on AI tech and relied on antiquated mapping equipment from Leica and Trimble.

"10 years behind" is intresting saying to me. Underestimation of Chinese EV progress already been admitted by US government. Maybe you don't understand how fast things moving from 2019 to 2023.

BEV instead of HD maps already very popular here in Chinese auto maker and colleges. China has most EVs are running on the roads, they already gained lots of expereinces on different tech paths.

A new Shenzen company (Map-less):

Industry Leading Artificial Intelligence Company - DeepRoute

DeepRoute.ai aims to create artificial general intelligence in robots by collaborating with automakers on mass production of smart driving cars.

www.deeproute.ai

They are applied on some new types already.


DJI also has strong existence on self-driving:
SAIC-GM-Wuling unveils smart driving system created with drone maker DJI

SAIC-GM-Wuling unveils smart driving system created with drone maker DJI

The SAIC-GM-Wuling 2023 Baojun KiWi EV, which will officially go on sale this month, will be the first model to use the system.

cnevpost.com

 

[srevster]

Thanks for the explainations, much better than only posting nonsense and unrelated video and links in the thread.

If by marco definition of self-drving, there are lots of oversea hardware, software compaines gained contracts, and they are still coming to China:




Li Auto picks Nvidia over Mobileye for newest self-driving cars

Li Auto picks Nvidia over Mobileye for newest self-driving cars · TechNode

Li Auto will be the first automaker to use Nvidia’s newest processor to facilitate highly autonomous driving functions for its EVs.

technode.com

*Mobileeye acutally lost ege, and latest Li Auto are using Chinese chips.


Waymo sets up new driverless vehicle division in China

Waymo sets up new driverless vehicle division in China | Internet of Business

Waymo, the autonomous vehicle division of Google's parent Alphabet, has registered a company in Shanghai called Huimo Business Consulting. As well as being a near homophone for Waymo, ‘Hu?mò’ is Mandarin for ‘emblem’.

internetofbusiness.com

"10 years behind" is intresting saying to me. Underestimation of Chinese EV progress already been admited by US government. Maybe you don't understand how fast things moving from 2019 to 2023.

BEV instead of HD maps already very popular here in Chinese auto maker and colleges. China has most EVs are running on the roads, they already gained lots of expereinces on different path.

A new Shenzen company:

Industry Leading Artificial Intelligence Company - DeepRoute

DeepRoute.ai aims to create artificial general intelligence in robots by collaborating with automakers on mass production of smart driving cars.

www.deeproute.ai

They are applied on some new types already.


DJI also has strong existence on self-driving:
SAIC-GM-Wuling unveils smart driving system created with drone maker DJI

SAIC-GM-Wuling unveils smart driving system created with drone maker DJI

The SAIC-GM-Wuling 2023 Baojun KiWi EV, which will officially go on sale this month, will be the first model to use the system.

cnevpost.com

Yep, like I said 5-10 years behind. I visited in 2016 and 2017 with these ideas and at that point it was too early for China to grasp these ideas. Seems like the catch up happened in 2023.

 

[srevster]

 

[rockdog]

Yep, like I said 5-10 years behind. I visited in 2016 and 2017 with these ideas and at that point it was too early for China to grasp these ideas. Seems like the catch up happened in 2023.

Thanks for the clarification, "10 year behind on AI" is quite confusing to me.

Not strange, this is the tech & industry competition, China is in the games.

BYD actually was the first maker to bring plugin car into the market, even early than Telsa, but later Tesla was more shinning than BYD.

The F3DM is the world's first mass-produced plug-in hybrid automobile and went on sale to government agencies and corporations in China on December 15, 2008.

BYD F3DM - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[srevster]

Another sorry tale of broken EV chargers and unrealistic range expectations

Headwinds, inclines, an extra passenger and busted fast-chargers. Why we had to rely on a diesel powered tilt-truck to get our BYD Atto 3 extended range back home.

thedriven.io

 

[srevster]

India tops Japan in new car sales amid high economic growth

New car sales in India in fiscal 2022 ended March jumped 28.2 percent from a year ago to 4.85 million units, surpassing annual sales in the Japanese market, industry data showed.

english.kyodonews.net

 

[rockdog]

BYD's freaking cool suspension system, the Yunnian system would make 3 wheels driving during emergency.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Dawn of Chinese civil aviation industry is researched and followed strategically in the Far East:

Jet aircraft and rocket development power defeated by China and Brazil, the dangerous future of "Manufacturing Japan"

The development of the space jet, which was supposed to be the first domestic jet airliner, was officially canceled in February. In March, when the disappointment did not cool down, Japan's next-generation large rocket "H3" failed to launch. On the other hand, China has succeeded in commercializing jet airliners, and the number of rocket launches is on the same scale as the United States. In the small aircraft that competes with the space jet, Brazilian companies are in control of the world. Japan has been ranked lower than developed countries in average wages and labor productivity for a long time, but its development capabilities have also become suspicious. Has it become a national power inferior to emerging countries?

 

[SexyChineseLady]

2023 might be remembered as the year that China has pushed into the lead permanently in East Asia.

Best exemplified by these four pictures:


1) Y-20 flying testbed with CJ1000A engine -- we are watching China move into an industry that is basically restricted to a handful of companies in three Western countries -- something that Japan came close but could not crack:

2) CRRC Maglev with high temperature superconductors -- 600 to 800 KPH!!! This will bring China's already world leading HSR further ahead where Japan once dominated:

3) BYD Yangwang U9 -- emblematic of China's rise in EVs and eclipsing of Japan as the world number 1 auto exporter:

4) The H1508 super cruise liner -- among the largest cruise vessels ever built and the first one in East Asia. Neither Korea nor Japan, number 2 and 3 in global shipbuilding after China, had ever built one!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Both Japanese and German auto companies are under pressure from Chinese companies as EVs overtake the ICE cars.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Airbus will be the aerospace company of choice for China's airlines for sure