Camouflages and Uniforms of the Indian Armed Forces, The Past, Present and Future

Aditya Ballal

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Alex is a trustable journo and he has written the article
He’s the same man who declared SIG 716 with Bipod can become an LMG and can’t distinguish CTAR from X-95. So he ain’t fully reliable, but in this case I think he’s right regarding adoption of a new camouflage, but I’m still hoping the camo actually adopted is different in a positive way.
 

FalconSlayers

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He’s the same man who declared SIG 716 with Bipod can become an LMG and can’t distinguish CTAR from X-95. So he ain’t fully reliable, but in this case I think he’s right regarding adoption of a new camouflage, but I’m still hoping the camo actually adopted is different in a positive way.
What’s wrong then? SiG-716 has auto firing mode and with a bipod can be used as an LMG in limited role, and regarding CTAR-X95 (hota hai yaar). He’s pretty reliable.
 

Tshering22

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That camo reminds me of this
View attachment 128970

Tell me, isn't this stealthy? Just wear one and lie down on the forest floor and you'd go invisible. An arid, snow, and a night version of this design would be a killer fitment for our terrains.

But nooooooo..... NIFT has to prove itself again and again... 🙄
 

Love Charger

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LaIllahaSigmar

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Quoting:

//Colour of the new uniform pattern

Will remain the same – a mix of Olive and earthy colours.//

Damn.

So, IA tested the MTP based ones and then stuck to old one?

not sure how the old one is going to help anywhere outside forested regions.

Does it say anything about our doctrine too?
that we don't intend to fight in rajasthan or Gujarat, ie widen the conflict from Kashmir and pressure the porks?
 

Tshering22

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Quoting:

//Colour of the new uniform pattern

Will remain the same – a mix of Olive and earthy colours.//

Damn.

So, IA tested the MTP based ones and then stuck to old one?

not sure how the old one is going to help anywhere outside forested regions.

Does it say anything about our doctrine too?
that we don't intend to fight in rajasthan or Gujarat, ie widen the conflict from Kashmir and pressure the porks?
I don't think that the press will get the full details. You see, speculation is rife and it is common for government agencies to provide misleading / semi-fabricated news to increase the speculation until the official release date of some program/some equipment.

It would be foolish to contemplate further on this topic.
 

MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00

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I don't think that the press will get the full details. You see, speculation is rife and it is common for government agencies to provide misleading / semi-fabricated news to increase the speculation until the official release date of some program/some equipment.

It would be foolish to contemplate further on this topic.
I hope so what’s point of all these testing when you are going to keep the same old camo pattern and the same colors.
 

Tshering22

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I hope so what’s point of all these testing when you are going to keep the same old camo pattern and the same colors.
This is what happens when the administrative class of the country is still not able to resonate with the changing times. UPSC is a disease-ridden body that needs to be dismantled. All government appointments need to be based on psychometric assessments, qualifications, and passion/interest.

Just as the NITI Aayog replaced the Soviet-era Planning Commission, this British-colonial era UPSC crap needs to be dismantled.

Also, more middle-level soldiers need to take up initiatives to lead things like weapons testing, uniform design and development, etc. rather than generals and admirals who are not in touch with realities on the ground due to their long service.

This is what distinguishes the Israeli military from the rest of the world. An IDF soldier can override his commander if there is a better way of tackling a situation or development. This makes them very versatile and deadly.

Meanwhile, our military is still stuck in the 1800s, structurally and attitude-wise. Gen. Rawat did his best to change, but there is a lot of internal opposition from scummy colonel/general level officers.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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What’s wrong then? SiG-716 has auto firing mode and with a bipod can be used as an LMG in limited role, and regarding CTAR-X95 (hota hai yaar). He’s pretty reliable.
For an LMG to function even somewhat properly, you need a swappable barrel. After firing 100-200 rounds, accuracy degrades if you dont swap the barrel. Usually, lmg crews carry an extra barrel and alternate every 100-150 rounds.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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For an LMG to function even somewhat properly, you need a swappable barrel. After firing 100-200 rounds, accuracy degrades if you dont swap the barrel. Usually, lmg crews carry an extra barrel and alternate every 100-150 rounds.
Also, in islrael atleast, two negevists (the term for the negev lmg guy) work as a team, one is the gunner, other is ammo guy. 150 rounds per box, and 4 boxes per person is typical loadout. One extra barrel, negev barrel swap is one of the simplest and fastest.

Heres an account from a ex negevist (timestampsare relevant to Ian's video on the negev, from forgotten weapons)


Hey Ian, so nice to finally see the Negev on here. I was a 'negevist' (negev operator) in the IDF and I just wanted to point out a few things you didn't cover in this overview.

1. the gas system can be easily disassembled (and really should be each time the gun gets cleaned). It consists of three pieces: the selector (baseplate with struts and tubular extension for easy grip), the retaining pin and plate which are located on the opposite site, and a small but very stiff spring which provides tension so it stays in place. It all fits in the tubular recess under the sight. At 1:50-2:00 you can see the exposed gas chamber on the commando barrel, where the piston sits inside it, and just in front of it, under the sight, is a circle with a small slot in it. When clean, that circle can be pushed in and rotated 90 degrees while you hold the gas selector in place. At 3:35 you can see an odd shaped pin in the baseplate of the selector and two black sections on the sides. The pin is actually an asymmetric 'T' attached to the circle with slot from the other side, and which goes through the selector, rotates and hooks into place. The asymmetric design means it can only be installed one way. The slot on the other side is so you can use a tool to increase torque when you've been shooting a lot and the carbon build-up fouls the mechanism.

2. The bolt has an internal ratcheting system of three catches (three on the old ones which I used, but I believe there are a lot more on newer ones, like what you have) which will be engaged if you don't pull the bolt back far enough to engage the sear. As you found at the 7:51-7:56 mark, the bolt seemed like it was back, but you couldn't drop it with a pull of the trigger. You had to pull it back farther, and there was a click as it engaged with the sear, and then you could drop it. I'm sure you became more aware of this once you got out to the range and started putting rounds through it. The system is, as you must have easily guessed, a safety to ensure that you don't accidentally end up firing the weapon if you didn't charge it properly.

3. As you can see from the trigger assembly, the sear gives no resistance to the bolt carrier sliding back over it to reset. For this reason, during disassembly, there is no need to pull the trigger to release the bolt; I'll just slide right out.

4. The STANAG mag well does more than just allow you to feed with magazines. It is also the mechanism which holds and retains the box which the belt feeds from. IDF uses a bag/box called a 'toph', which carries 150 rounds (a combat load out is 4 'toph-eem', plus extra belts). The belt comes out through the upper left hand side (9:30/10:00 if you're looking at a clock) and there is a metal extension, like the top of a GI mag, which clicks into the mag well and holds it in place. Very secure, but also easy to switch and reuses a necessary part of the design; very slick.

5. The Negev is always issued with two barrels per gun. It's intended to be changed every 150 rounds (or one 'toph') during consistent fire, to keep from overheating the barrel.

6. It has night sights! The rear iron sight has a distance dial meter which, as you rotate, will positively click into different ranges with detents. It moves the sight by way of an off-set bar which rotates upward as your turn the dial. Once you've reached the top range, twist a little further and the sight will be able to lift off the bar and swing all the way forward. Underneath the peep sight is a wide 'U' notch sight with two tritium night-sight dots. The front sight post adjusts for elevation like any AR pattern rifle (the base of the front sight can be adjusted for windage), but the rotating part is made up of two elements: the elevation dial and a top section. The detent for adjusting needs to be pushed down far enough to spin both parts in order to adjust the sight, otherwise you only spin the top part. The top part spins independently because it too has a tritium dot on one side of it, which lines up with the detent pin. Obviously, this is so you can adjust the sight back in line with the shooter once sighting in has been achieved, and the tritium isn't on all sides so you don't reveal yourself to an enemy.

7. The bipod folds forward as well as backwards. While this may seem awkward, it does help to get the bipod legs out of the way of the operator if the operator is just carrying the gun by the sling and there is a 'toph' inserted. As you'll notice at 6:00-6:07, the bipod lies around the mag well for storage. To be folded, the legs need to be brought together and then rotated up into place. This is possible if you have a magazine inserted, but impossible to do if you have a 'toph' inserted (though if you have the legs folded already, then you can insert a 'toph' but then you can't take the bipod down). Thus, the ability to fold the legs forward is quite handy and useful.

8. The barrel removal button is only the one side, on the right. That side of the pin face has knurling, and its position is such that it is possible to change the barrel with only one hand.

9. Just behind the gas selector, on the left-hand side of the gun is a 'U' piece of metal crudely welded to the frame. That is the front sling attachment point, and the extra welding material is to ensure against breakage. When loaded with a full 'toph', the negev is 10kg. With any optics or the barrel mounted laser sight (for the older versions), that weight goes up, and you don't want the sling attachment to break. At the rear of the gun, on the top left corner of the stock plate, is another 'U' loop strongly welded into place, and that's the rear sling attachment.

10. At 4:14, just above the trigger and to the left of the 'Automatic' fire selector letter, is a large hole. There is a similar hole behind the bipod mounting point (2:19). As you might have guessed, these are for attaching the gun into a vehicle mount.

Sorry, this got a little longer than I had originally intended, but I felt it was important to add a bit more to the presentation, just to fully showcase how awesome this LMG is. I miss my negev every day.
 

FalconSlayers

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Quoting:

//Colour of the new uniform pattern

Will remain the same – a mix of Olive and earthy colours.//

Damn.

So, IA tested the MTP based ones and then stuck to old one?

not sure how the old one is going to help anywhere outside forested regions.

Does it say anything about our doctrine too?
that we don't intend to fight in rajasthan or Gujarat, ie widen the conflict from Kashmir and pressure the porks?
Same is the case with Pakifags, their combat uniform is more of semi-arid pattern useful in South Punjab-Rajasthan areas, or areas of Sindh-Kutch or in Balochistan and Waziristan, while their SSG Commandos have Woodland camo, which only means that Paki warfare doctrine is no warfighting just infiltration of terrorists, small cross border attacks and thats it, and same is with us that we have limited our camo to be used only in J&K and North East, while on Desert front and Tibetan borders we’ll be on a disadvantage, but we forget that at deserts the colour of camo starts fading away due to the dirt and sand everywhere (obviously).

Else I was watching this. Perfect for us, just pixelate this Tropical Multicam camo and we’re good to go.
 

Marliii

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Same is the case with Pakifags, their combat uniform is more of semi-arid pattern useful in South Punjab-Rajasthan areas, or areas of Sindh-Kutch or in Balochistan and Waziristan, while their SSG Commandos have Woodland camo, which only means that Paki warfare doctrine is no warfighting just infiltration of terrorists, small cross border attacks and thats it, and same is with us that we have limited our camo to be used only in J&K and North East, while on Desert front and Tibetan borders we’ll be on a disadvantage, but we forget that at deserts the colour of camo starts fading away due to the dirt and sand everywhere (obviously).

Else I was watching this. Perfect for us, just pixelate this Tropical Multicam camo and we’re good to go.
Sir its copying the west sirrrr.
Even though our current camo is from the french
We cant copy the west sirrrr.
 

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